What do you think about Big Sur?

[TwoLaneHighway]

Hello. I need to update the OS on my MacBook Pro and was thinking about upgrading to Big Sur.

What are your thoughts on Big Sur?

Is it stable?

Does it work well with most applications?

Any horror stories out there about it?

I guess Monterey is the latest OS, but I would prefer something that is tried-and-true versus newer and potentially buggier.

 

[jz0309]

Hello. I need to update the OS on my MacBook Pro and was thinking about upgrading to Big Sur.

What are your thoughts on Big Sur?

Is it stable?

Does it work well with most applications?

Any horror stories out there about it?

I guess Monterey is the latest OS, but I would prefer something that is tried-and-true versus newer and potentially buggier.

you should browse this subform below as you will find answers to your questions there:
macOS Big Sur (11)

 

[velocityg4]

I think it's fine. It works well on my 2015 MBP. I haven't had any issues with OS or software stability. Just be aware a lot of old printers and scanners didn't survive the transition.

I've been using it since the Public Beta. The only issue I had was the tab bar in Firefox. But Mozilla fixed that long before the gold master.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

I think it's fine. It works well on my 2015 MBP. I haven't had any issues with OS or software stability. Just be aware a lot of old printers and scanners didn't survive the transition.

I've been using it since the Public Beta. The only issue I had was the tab bar in Firefox. But Mozilla fixed that long before the gold master.

No scanners or printers here.

It sounds like the biggest issue would be going from 32-bit applications to 64-bit. (I think I have a few applications that would need to be replaced or for which there might not be a replacement.)

But is Big Sur mostly "stable" because it seems like Apple has had some real train-wrecks for OS's over the last decade, and I don't want to install one of those!

 

[sgtaylor5]

It was a little slow on my MBP late 2013 8/256. By way of comparison, Catalina runs as well as Mojave did on that laptop.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

It was a little slow on my MBP late 2013 8/256. By way of comparison, Catalina runs as well as Mojave did on that laptop.

I have 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD.

You make it sound like Catalina is better than Big Sur?

I thought people said Catalina was a train-wreck, or am I thinking of another macOS?

 

[velocityg4]

No scanners or printers here.

It sounds like the biggest issue would be going from 32-bit applications to 64-bit. (I think I have a few applications that would need to be replaced or for which there might not be a replacement.)

But is Big Sur mostly "stable" because it seems like Apple has had some real train-wrecks for OS's over the last decade, and I don't want to install one of those!

I think issues get blown out of proportion on forums. I've been doing IT work and repair services for over 10 years. Every macOS version has been reliable. I can't think of any which got an inordinate number of support calls.

In fact Mac related support calls are rare for any OS or software problem. Most of my dealings is with people wanting something setup. Such as a new Mac, some online service, network device, &c to their Mac. Once it's setup it's smooth sailing.

Whenever I moved someone from Windows to Mac. Their support call volume would drop dramatically. Although Windows support calls have gone way down since Windows 10 came out.

But no. While I occassionally may not like design choices or feature changes. I wouldn't say any OS version was unreliable. You just want to make sure your software supports the OS before upgrading. That's were you get most problems.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

I think issues get blown out of proportion on forums. I've been doing IT work and repair services for over 10 years. Every macOS version has been reliable. I can't think of any which got an inordinate number of support calls.

In fact Mac related support calls are rare for any OS or software problem. Most of my dealings is with people wanting something setup. Such as a new Mac, some online service, network device, &c to their Mac. Once it's setup it's smooth sailing.

Whenever I moved someone from Windows to Mac. Their support call volume would drop dramatically. Although Windows support calls have gone way down since Windows 10 came out.

But no. While I occassionally may not like design choices or feature changes. I wouldn't say any OS version was unreliable. You just want to make sure your software supports the OS before upgrading. That's were you get most problems.

Good to hear the encouragement.

My determining factor is the PAIN it takes to build a machine from the ground up.

I know lots of people don't seem to get this, but to set up all of my software, plus configure it, is at least a week's worth of work - and that is all goes well.

I will be pretty pissed off if I choose the wrong macOS, go to all of that trouble, and then find out it doesn't work and have to do that all over again.

So I am trying to choose a macOS that has been around enough to have the kinks worked out, but that isn't so old that it will stop being supported in a few years - because rebuilding my Mac more than every 5 years is too much work!!!

 

[sgtaylor5]

I have 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD.

You make it sound like Catalina is better than Big Sur?

I thought people said Catalina was a train-wreck, or am I thinking of another macOS?

More memory always helps with performance. Glad you have an expansive system to better fit your needs.

You heard right; I said Catalina, which was a train wreck until the last couple of updates. EDIT: The only other problem I had with Big Sur was the screen tore horribly for a second after login halfway through the boot/decrypt process, and with Catalina, it doesn't tear at all. My laptop is older, and that's why.

But, look at the system requirements for both Catalina (MBP 2012 or later and 4 GB of RAM, vs 2 for Mojave) and Big Sur (MBP late 2013 and 4 GB of RAM). So my laptop (not yours) is on the edge of the requirements for Big Sur, and with Catalina, there's still performance headroom.

I work on repairing home computers, so I'm focused on modern OS performance on older hardware, because most people want their computers to last a very long time. It's the little things, the constant small annoyances in slowdowns, that make a big difference in the happy normal use of a computer. (Reddit comes to mind) The larger issues, like modern Windows 10 laptops still being sold with spinning, slow hard drives instead of SSD's, are far easier to sell to my customers.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

More memory always helps with performance. Glad you have an expansive system to better fit your needs.

You heard right; I said Catalina, which was a train wreck until the last couple of updates. EDIT: The only other problem I had with Big Sur was the screen tore horribly for a second after login halfway through the boot/decrypt process, and with Catalina, it doesn't tear at all. My laptop is older, and that's why.

But, look at the system requirements for both Catalina (MBP 2012 or later and 4 GB of RAM, vs 2 for Mojave) and Big Sur (MBP late 2013 and 4 GB of RAM). So my laptop (not yours) is on the edge of the requirements for Big Sur, and with Catalina, there's still performance headroom.

I work on repairing home computers, so I'm focused on modern OS performance on older hardware, because most people want their computers to last a very long time. It's the little things, the constant small annoyances in slowdowns, that make a big difference in the happy normal use of a computer. (Reddit comes to mind) The larger issues, like modern Windows 10 laptops still being sold with spinning, slow hard drives instead of SSD's, are far easier to sell to my customers.

So if I am understanding you, you are saying that Catalina - a newer macOS - takes slightly less system requirements than Big Sur - an older macOS?

And you are saying that Catalina is more stable now than when it first came out?

 

[sgtaylor5]

So if I am understanding you, you are saying that Catalina - a newer macOS - takes slightly less system requirements than Big Sur - an older macOS?

And you are saying that Catalina is more stable now than when it first came out?

Catalina is older than Big Sur. Mojave 2019 -> Catalina 2020 -> Big Sur 2021 -> Monterey

Yes, Catalina is more stable for me than when it first came out. the betas of Catalina were simply horrible, and I stayed away from them.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

Catalina is older than Big Sur. Mojave 2019 -> Catalina 2020 -> Big Sur 2021 -> Monterey

Yes, Catalina is more stable for me than when it first came out. the betas of Catalina were simply horrible, and I stayed away from them.

Oops, all of this geography is making me dizzy!

So since I have 16GB of RAM and a SSD, it seems like Big Sur would be better than Catalina because it is newer, right?

But that based on my not wanting to be a guinea pig, I should probably hold off on Monterey, correct?

 

[sgtaylor5]

How new is your Mac? Intel or M1? That matters most.

I'd stay away from Monterey until at least 12.1, to be safe. Monitor the Monterey forum and get a sense of how it's developing.

Remember, forums attract people looking for help and/or have problems. Most of the people who have no problems aren't here.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

How new is your Mac? Intel or M1? That matters most.

It is an early 2015 rMBP.

I'd stay away from Monterey until at least 12.1, to be safe. Monitor the Monterey forum and get a sense of how it's developing.

I am a late adopter, so I'll let them sort out all of the kinks!

Remember, forums attract people looking for help and/or have problems. Most of the people who have no problems aren't here.

Ha ha. Very true.

So, in your experience, does Big Sur sound like a good leap forward for me and my MBP?

 

[velocityg4]

It is an early 2015 rMBP.




I am a late adopter, so I'll let them sort out all of the kinks!




Ha ha. Very true.

So, in your experience, does Big Sur sound like a good leap forward for me and my MBP?

Mine is a 2015 13" 8/256. It does fine on Big Sur. I didn't notice any difference in performance coming from Catalina.

 

[sgtaylor5]

^^ this.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

Mine is a 2015 13" 8/256. It does fine on Big Sur. I didn't notice any difference in performance coming from Catalina.

Based on another thread of mine, it sounds like I will have to use APFS for the file system.

Since this will be a clean install, are thee any other gotchas that I should be aware of?

I am very concerned about security, and want to do all I can to security my Mac and my future data.

On this rMBP, I have a firmware password already installed.

How will switching to Big Sur (presumably) and APFS impact that?

Will a firmware password still work, and do I have to remove that feature during the install? (I honestly don't remember the specifics of the firmware hardware since it has been years since I set it up.)

Any other considerations?

 

[sgtaylor5]

Encrypt your drive and back it up using Time Machine with an external drive. Big Sur will only let you backup your data partition; that's enough. Multiple backups, one of which is off site, is much better.

The newer the Mac, the less you can recover your data if the motherboard dies! Security is usually thought of as being "no one else can see your data". It is also "being able to use your data later" no matter what happens to your laptop.

A corrolary of this latter principle is always to include as many alternative means of recovery and !keeping them current! as you can when you are making primary or secondary email accounts. I‘ve seen too many customer accounts (Gmail, Microsoft, Yahoo) locked out because the only recovery path was an obsolete phone number or an unreachable email address.

 

[velocityg4]

On a clean install. You'll need to enter your firmware password. The firmware password mainly locks in a boot drive. So someone can't just swap drives after stealing a Mac. But once you change boot drives. It'll lock in to that new boot drive automatically. If I recall correctly.

I didn't even switch to APFS. It just switches you to it automatically. Even if you format an SSD as HFS. If you install to it. It'll switch to APFS.

The only gotcha is sometimes you get a format error. So, I format to MBR then back to GUID. To get around it.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

Encrypt your drive and back it up using Time Machine with an external drive.

I use Carbon Copy Cloner to an external drive.

Big Sur will only let you backup your data partition;

What does that mean?

that's enough. Multiple backups, one of which is off site, is much better.

Yes, I keep clone backups offsite.

The newer the Mac, the less you can recover your data if the motherboard dies!

What do you mean?

Are you saying that if your motherboard dies you cannot recover data off of the hard-drive?

Security is usually thought of as being "no one else can see your data". It is also "being able to use your data later" no matter what happens to your laptop.

A corrolary of this latter principle is always to include as many alternative means of recovery and !keeping them current! as you can when you are making primary or secondary email accounts. I‘ve seen too many customer accounts (Gmail, Microsoft, Yahoo) locked out because the only recovery path was an obsolete phone number or an unreachable email address.

Good point.

Well, I keep multiple clones of my Mac offsite and even out of state. I write down important passwords, and try to do things that allow me to recover accounts, including not being dependent on companies like Google.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

On a clean install. You'll need to enter your firmware password.

I wrote it down somewhere - let's hope I still have that!

The firmware password mainly locks in a boot drive. So someone can't just swap drives after stealing a Mac. But once you change boot drives. It'll lock in to that new boot drive automatically. If I recall correctly.

I am rusty on the specifics, but I recall the main benefit of the firmware password is that someone can't hold down keys on your keyboard, boot to another drive/OS, and then access your data. It also does something with full-disk encryption to make sure that cannot be overridden. It seems like a good idea to have one.

I didn't even switch to APFS. It just switches you to it automatically. Even if you format an SSD as HFS. If you install to it. It'll switch to APFS.

The only gotcha is sometimes you get a format error. So, I format to MBR then back to GUID. To get around it.

I created a bootable USB drive with Big Sur on it, so I guess I will option boot, and then choose my USB installer, and then start installing Big Sur, and somewhere along the way, I will have to enter my firmware password, correct?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Outside of the hideous login screen in the beginning, BS has been stable for me. I get the occasional beach ball but, outside of that, everything has seemed to work as it should for me.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

Outside of the hideous login screen in the beginning,

What does that mean?

BS has been stable for me. I get the occasional beach ball but, outside of that, everything has seemed to work as it should for me.

So if you were me, with the hardware that I have, does Big Sur seem like a good balance between stability and newness?

 

[sgtaylor5]

I use Carbon Copy Cloner to an external drive.




What does that mean?




Yes, I keep clone backups offsite.




What do you mean?

Are you saying that if your motherboard dies you cannot recover data off of the hard-drive?




Good point.

Well, I keep multiple clones of my Mac offsite and even out of state. I write down important passwords, and try to do things that allow me to recover accounts, including not being dependent on companies like Google.

Catalina and Big Sur have two partitions; a System partition that is locked and with Big Sur, inaccessible to backup programs and a Data partition that has your applications and information on it.

On any Mac laptop that has a security chip T1 or later and especially M1, there are no provisions to recover data from a motherboard hard drive. The newer the Mac laptop, the better the chance that the SSD is actually chips on the motherboard and not a separate piece of hardware. The security chip automatically encrypts all data going onto the SSD.

 

[TwoLaneHighway]

Catalina and Big Sur have two partitions; a System partition that is locked and with Big Sur, inaccessible to backup programs and a Data partition that has your applications and information on it.

So if I install Big Sur, and then I use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone my laptop, you are saying that CCC will only clone my data files and not the OS and the applications?

God I hope that isn't what you mean, because otherwise that would be catastrophic if you had a system or software failure?!

The benefit of creating a "clone" is that you not only have all of your data, but you also have a bootable version of your entire system, so as long as your clone is recent, then on recovery it is like you never missed a beat. If Apple is taking that capability away from users, then it's almost like you cannot backup your system anymore. :-(

On any Mac laptop that has a security chip T1 or later and especially M1, there are no provisions to recover data from a motherboard hard drive. The newer the Mac laptop, the better the chance that the SSD is actually chips on the motherboard and not a separate piece of hardware. The security chip automatically encrypts all data going onto the SSD.

So the newer Macs are supposedly more secure as far as protecting your data, but as a result of that, you are basically screwed if your system becomes corrupt or your system or hardware die?