What does macOS look like moving forward?

[whiteboard]

In an earlier thread of my, @iluvmacs99 stated:

Mojave is the last OS that behaves like old school Mac OS. Catalina is the transition as there's no more iTunes and so if you want to keep iTunes, then you need to stick with Mojave.

So what exactly is happening to macOS moving forward?

I had heard rumors in the past that it will look and behave like iOS on an iPad, but I'm not sure what that means.

Currently I am running macOS Sierra, and I havene't upgraded because it is straight-forward, and still behaves like a simple, function OS should in my mind.

Based on the comment above, I am fearful that operating systems as i have known them over my lifetime will soon disappear forever!! 🙁

(When I got an iPhone a few years back, I thought it was so weird that there was no concept as a "file explorer" like in Windows/Linux/macOS. As a business user, that kind of stuff worries me big time!)

 

[4sallypat]

With the move away from Intel and towards Apple Silicon, it makes sense to have Apple merge Mac OS with iOS.

I agree, it's difficult for us who have been using Mac OS since OS 8, 9, X and now 11 Big Sur.

Just yesterday I needed to reset an Apple TV. In the past whenever I plug in an ATV into a Mac, it shows on iTunes but no more - it's on the Finder sidebar.

I guess you sort of get used to the newer and newer GUI.....

 

[casperes1996]

Big Sur is honestly nice, and it's nothing like iOS. No merging will happen in the near future. Big Sur isn't *all that different* from Catalina, and IMO nicer than Catalina. You still have Finder, you still have Terminal.

 

[AZhappyjack]

In an earlier thread of my, @iluvmacs99 stated:



So what exactly is happening to macOS moving forward?

I had heard rumors in the past that it will look and behave like iOS on an iPad, but I'm not sure what that means.

Currently I am running macOS Sierra, and I havene't upgraded because it is straight-forward, and still behaves like a simple, function OS should in my mind.

Based on the comment above, I am fearful that operating systems as i have known them over my lifetime will soon disappear forever!! 🙁

(When I got an iPhone a few years back, I thought it was so weird that there was no concept as a "file explorer" like in Windows/Linux/macOS. As a business user, that kind of stuff worries me big time!)

Apple has repeatedly said that they are not merging macOS and iOS... but every time they release a new version, it seems like they get closer and closer to the same... and with the M1 and subsequent Apple silicon, the confluence actually looks more likely to me than not.

With the WWDC keynote less than 48 hours away, we should have some idea of the direction very soon.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I think we will see refinement of the menus making it easier for new to Mac people to traverse.

I think we will see better syncing of stock apps between Mac and IOS.

I think we will see an overhaul of Time Machine in ability and menu

 

[allan.nyholm]

Somehow I also see more personal customization through out macOS, I recently thought that Apple could add in accent colors for iMessage chat bubbles like those glossy ones in OS X. Apple will not allow for anything beyond what they can control with their Assets.car files and other theme .car files.

I imagine menus and various iconography will change to a degree too. Perhaps little tweaks on the UI too. There will be more defaults applications coming too to macOS.
Which new applications will be installed I can't tell. It's amazing to me that Apple at least hasn't added Solitaire, Mahjong or Sudoku in the mix and just have Chess.

 

[whiteboard]

Big Sur is honestly nice, and it's nothing like iOS. No merging will happen in the near future. Big Sur isn't *all that different* from Catalina, and IMO nicer than Catalina. You still have Finder, you still have Terminal.

So can you describe what differences do exist then ans @iluvmacs99 seemed to imply?

When I was a Windows user, I liked Windows XP best. It wasn't pretty, but is had a simple UI and accessing things like files via Windows Explorer, OS settings under the Contol Panel, maybe some technical stuff via Terminal and so on was all very easy. I also liked this white screens with grey or beige borders and black font.

I hate how Windows 7/8/10 look where everything is blue, and it just feels like you are in a cloud with lots of fluffy-looking screens versus what a computer user in the 80s/90s/early 2000s would expect.

For any OS, I expect things like a goto Dock, Finder for surfing my hard-drive, a Control Panel to easily access and tweak OS settings, Terminal to do more hard-core stuff, and and a UI that feels like you are a business-user/developer and not a 13-year old girl playing with "My Little Ponies".

If anyone can help me better understand how Big Sur looks and feels and works, that would be appreciated.

It seems that migrating from macOS Sierra to macOS Big Sur would make the most sense as far as things like security, up-to-date SSL certs - which is what I have been struggling with all week at the library - and putting me in a place where I will not have to go through the pain of upgrading OS's for another 4-5 years.

 

[casperes1996]

So can you describe what differences do exist then ans @iluvmacs99 seemed to imply?

When I was a Windows user, I liked Windows XP best. It wasn't pretty, but is had a simple UI and accessing things like files via Windows Explorer, OS settings under the Contol Panel, maybe some technical stuff via Terminal and so on was all very easy. I also liked this white screens with grey or beige borders and black font.

I hate how Windows 7/8/10 look where everything is blue, and it just feels like you are in a cloud with lots of fluffy-looking screens versus what a computer user in the 80s/90s/early 2000s would expect.

For any OS, I expect things like a goto Dock, Finder for surfing my hard-drive, a Control Panel to easily access and tweak OS settings, Terminal to do more hard-core stuff, and and a UI that feels like you are a business-user/developer and not a 13-year old girl playing with "My Little Ponies".

If anyone can help me better understand how Big Sur looks and feels and works, that would be appreciated.

It seems that migrating from macOS Sierra to macOS Big Sur would make the most sense as far as things like security, up-to-date SSL certs - which is what I have been struggling with all week at the library - and putting me in a place where I will not have to go through the pain of upgrading OS's for another 4-5 years.

Icons have become rounded rectangles (developers can still have their icon be whatever they want, this is just the recommended design language and what default apps use), menu bar has gotten ever so slightly bigger and some menu options have been spaced out a tad more. It's really not "THAT" huge a difference. You still feel like it's macOS and feel right at home. It's not at all like going to Windows 8, it's still very much a release of the macOS you already know. Personally I think it looks excellent honestly

 

[casperes1996]

Here are some screenshots for you. You can also still pick the gradient options to reduce colours for example if you want greyscale window decorator buttons, and through modifying the background picture you can make themes bar whatever you want

 

[casperes1996]

So can you describe what differences do exist then ans @iluvmacs99 seemed to imply?

When I was a Windows user, I liked Windows XP best. It wasn't pretty, but is had a simple UI and accessing things like files via Windows Explorer, OS settings under the Contol Panel, maybe some technical stuff via Terminal and so on was all very easy. I also liked this white screens with grey or beige borders and black font.

I hate how Windows 7/8/10 look where everything is blue, and it just feels like you are in a cloud with lots of fluffy-looking screens versus what a computer user in the 80s/90s/early 2000s would expect.

For any OS, I expect things like a goto Dock, Finder for surfing my hard-drive, a Control Panel to easily access and tweak OS settings, Terminal to do more hard-core stuff, and and a UI that feels like you are a business-user/developer and not a 13-year old girl playing with "My Little Ponies".

If anyone can help me better understand how Big Sur looks and feels and works, that would be appreciated.

It seems that migrating from macOS Sierra to macOS Big Sur would make the most sense as far as things like security, up-to-date SSL certs - which is what I have been struggling with all week at the library - and putting me in a place where I will not have to go through the pain of upgrading OS's for another 4-5 years.

Only thing you might hate is that this is the new Terminal

(This is a joke; It's a program for the CLI that prints this, Terminal works just like always, though the default shell moved tho zsh instead of bash (though I think that happened in Catalina actually)

 

[Boyd01]

Yep, Catalina also has zsh. I am still on Catalina but I generally wait till near the end of support to upgrade. These Big Sur differences seem mostly cosmetic, looks fine to me. I really don't see MacOS getting to the point where "it will look and behave like iOS on an iPad". In fact, just look at the iPad forum where a lot of people want to run MacOS on their iPads, not the other way around.

 

[Cayenne1]

Windows and MacOS have become like a politicians approach to "infrastructure". Why fix the old bridge when you can paint it over and give it a pretty name, like Mohave, Catalina, Big Sur, ... Got to be better - right.

At least Microsoft just goes by 7, 8, 9?, 10 ...

 

[whiteboard]

Yep, Catalina also has zsh. I am still on Catalina but I generally wait till near the end of support to upgrade. These Big Sur differences seem mostly cosmetic, looks fine to me. I really don't see MacOS getting to the point where "it will look and behave like iOS on an iPad". In fact, just look at the iPad forum where a lot of people want to run MacOS on their iPads, not the other way around.

Being "mobile illiterate", maybe you can explain what the iOS on iPad "look and feel" really is?

Maybe if I understood how iPhones and iPads work that would help.

I think I saw a demo maybe 5 years ago in an Apple store on an iPad. The first thing I noticed was a lack of Finder and an inability to store files on your solid-state drive. (The Apple guy explain that all of your app config data and user data gets stored inside the app file itself which seems like a total fubar design to me! And that is what scares me when whoever implied that that was the direction that Big Sur was heading.)

To me, 85% of a computer and OS is the ability to navigate files and folders on your hard-drive. (The rest if viewing/opening up files.)

All of this hooking up your Mac to your TV or sharing music or home network is meaningless to me.

I don't want a smart TV, I want a serious computer!

 

[Boyd01]

I thought you had an iPhone? It is basically the same on an iPad, with a few other features like being able to use a mouse. iPads are missing many capabilities that are available in MacOS, the differences are really quite profound. To me, an iPad still feels like a big iPhone. I know some people will disagree with that, but I tried using an iPad as a replacement for my old MacBook Air a couple years ago and quickly learned it wouldn't even come close to doing the things I want.

 

[casperes1996]

I thought you had an iPhone? It is basically the same on an iPad, with a few other features like being able to use a mouse. iPads are missing many capabilities that are available in MacOS, the differences are really quite profound. To me, an iPad still feels like a big iPhone. I know some people will disagree with that, but I tried using an iPad as a replacement for my old MacBook Air a couple years ago and quickly learned it wouldn't even come close to doing the things I want.

So I think the disagreement with it feeling like a big iPhone is in comparison to early days with poorly programmed iPad apps and in comparison to Android tablets where a lot of programs are literally just everything from the phone version scaled up, where the iPad at least makes the UI for everything fit the display. On a more functional note it's basically true

 

[whiteboard]

I thought you had an iPhone?

I do, but I only use it as a camera and as a mobile hotspot.

So I have no clue how to use my iPhone for anything else (e.g. using apps), and I have never really poked around to see how the UI looks/works.

It is basically the same on an iPad, with a few other features like being able to use a mouse. iPads are missing many capabilities that are available in MacOS, the differences are really quite profound.

So what would those be?

To me, an iPad still feels like a big iPhone. I know some people will disagree with that, but I tried using an iPad as a replacement for my old MacBook Air a couple years ago and quickly learned it wouldn't even come close to doing the things I want.

What were the main things you felt were lacking in iOS on your iPad?

 

[Boyd01]

Sorry, don't really have the time to provide a full comparison of the two operating systems. If you spend some time doing other things on your phone, it should mostly be obvious. iOS was originally designed to be simple and easily understood, providing basic functions for common tasks on the touchscreen of a small device. Over the years, more advanced things were added, such as copy/paste which came along later and (IMO) is very awkward. Personally, I think that iOS started out as a simple, elegant solution for a phone. But over the years it has gotten very "kludgy" as more features were added. File management is still a mess, there just isn't anything equivalent to the Finder.

I use my Macs for serious work and have multiple programs running concurrently in different windows that can be re-arranged and re-sized as needed, iOS can't do that. A touchscreen interface is really no advantage for my Mac usage and is just very awkward for me on the iPad. The new mouse capabilities help, I guess, but that is pretty recent and I haven't really used it. I also have a lot of expensive legacy Mac software that won't ever work on an iPad.

 

[whiteboard]

Sorry, don't really have the time to provide a full comparison of the two operating systems. If you spend some time doing other things on your phone, it should mostly be obvious. iOS was originally designed to be simple and easily understood, providing basic functions for common tasks on the touchscreen of a small device. Over the years, more advanced things were added, such as copy/paste which came along later and (IMO) is very awkward. Personally, I think that iOS started out as a simple, elegant solution for a phone. But over the years it has gotten very "kludgy" as more features were added. File management is still a mess, there just isn't anything equivalent to the Finder.

So is Big Sur a mess like you describe above, or does it still behave most like macOS Sierra?

According to @casperes1996 it sounds like Big Sur is mostly like Sierra except that maybe the visuals have been tweaked, e.g. buttons/menus.

I use my Macs for serious work and have multiple programs running concurrently in different windows that can be re-arranged and re-sized as needed, iOS can't do that. A touchscreen interface is really no advantage for my Mac usage and is just very awkward for me on the iPad. The new mouse capabilities help, I guess, but that is pretty recent and I haven't really used it. I also have a lot of expensive legacy Mac software that won't ever work on an iPad.

Same here, which is why I am investigating this topic before doing an upgrade to Bg Sur and being disappointed.

So Big Sur isn't for touchscreens, right?

I think that was my biggest fear is that newer macOS's will be like trying to use a kiosk at the mall. ;-)

 

[Boyd01]

So is Big Sur a mess like you describe above, or does it still behave most like macOS Sierra?

I am still on Catalina but I generally wait till near the end of support to upgrade. These Big Sur differences seem mostly cosmetic, looks fine to me.

Sorry, I think we are just covering old ground here. MacOS is not for touchscreens and really bears no resemblance to iOS (except for the shape of the icons), not sure where you're getting that idea.

 

[whiteboard]

Sorry, I think we are just covering old ground here. MacOS is not for touchscreens and really bears no resemblance to iOS (except for the shape of the icons), not sure where you're getting that idea.

I guess this comment from @iluvmacs99 scared me...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/which-macos-to-choose.2299092/post-29969722

I'm running Mojave right now with my Macbook Air 2014 which seemed stable and still supports some 32bit apps that I use on this Mac. Support for Mojave is ending this September, so for further security updates, you need to be looking at installing something like Big Sur, but this is purely a 64bit OS that runs only 64bit apps and has the iOS interface look. If you still have 32bit app and drivers, stick with Mojave. Mojave is the last OS that behaves like old school Mac OS. Catalina is the transition as there's no more iTunes and so if you want to keep iTunes, then you need to stick with Mojave.

Maybe I read too much into that comment?

 

[Boyd01]

Maybe an analogy will help? A friend does something immature that makes you mad and you say "stop acting like a baby!" Clearly, that doesn't mean he is crawling around on the floor wearing a diaper. It's just an exaggeration to make a point.

People sometimes get frustrated with changes to new versions of MacOS and respond by saying that Apple is making it just like iOS. I've even done that myself on occasion. But that is mostly a reaction to Apple changing the way certain things work and "dumbing them down". They certainly have done very little to actually make MacOS function like iOS. I suspect the changes are directed towards making MacOS seem more "friendly" for the huge number of iPhone users who might want to get their first Mac. It's almost always possible to do the same things you've always done, but you might need to dig deeper into the menus.

Seriously, if you're used to Sierra it will take very little time to get used to any of the newer versions of MacOS. There are a few confusing changes, but they are almost always easily cured with a quick Google search.

 

[whiteboard]

Maybe an analogy will help? A friend does something immature that makes you mad and you say "stop acting like a baby!" Clearly, that doesn't mean he is crawling around on the floor wearing a diaper. It's just an exaggeration to make a point.

People sometimes get frustrated with changes to new versions of MacOS and respond by saying that Apple is making it just like iOS. I've even done that myself on occasion. But that is mostly a reaction to Apple changing the way certain things work and "dumbing them down". They certainly have done very little to actually make MacOS function like iOS. I suspect the changes are directed towards making MacOS seem more "friendly" for the huge number of iPhone users who might want to get their first Mac. It's almost always possible to do the same things you've always done, but you might need to dig deeper into the menus.

Seriously, if you're used to Sierra it will take very little time to get used to any of the newer versions of MacOS. There are a few confusing changes, but they are almost always easily cured with a quick Google search.

@Boyd01,

Very well stated, and that sounds like sage advice! 👍

Okay, so maybe I over-reacted to the comments. iOS just scares me.

Upon reflection, it seems to me that when I first got my iPhone a few years ago, I started investigating if I could use iOS on my iPhone - or possibly purchasing an iPad - the same way I used my MBP.

I do recall that there was no Finder, and I vaguely recall learning how to try and "copy & paste" files to move them around or something like that - it was a HORRIBLE experience.

And considering that we live in a world where "dumb and dumber" is king, I always worry the direction that software and everything in this world is going. (Everyone wants a "big red easy button" instead of using their brains!!!)

Also, I am gun-shy, because I purchased a cheap notepad with Windows on it to have access to Windows, and I thought the way Windows 8/10 looked was horrible. (Everything is "hidden" and it feels like Microsoft is trying to obscure everything so you can't change things. I particularly HATE how they make it impossible to disable the firewall, software updates, and so on!) Of course Google is king of obfuscation with Chrome too!

So the point is when @iluvmacs99 made that comment, it made me worry that Big Sur would be like WIndows 8/10 or Chrome or like an iPhone.

Sounds like you are saying that things aren't that bad.

I have been researching things as we talk, and it looks like all of my apps can be had in 64-bit, and that shouldn't be too bad switching to 64-bit other than tons of re-installing and re-configuring which I dread.

There is a paid 64-bit version of my soft-phone, and I suppose I should update to something more modern even if I stayed with Sierra, but change is scary and my VOIp is my life-line!

 

[Fishrrman]

Thread title:
"What does macOS look like moving forward?"

From where I stand, it "looks" UGLY.

I "stand" at OS's 10.12 (Low Sierra) and 10.14 Mojave on the Macs I use now. Both of these are visually pleasing to look at and use.

Yesterday, I installed the brand-new OS 12 on a spare SSD I had, and all I can think while looking at it, is... "ugh... awful".

If this is the future of the Mac OS (which is rapidly becoming the Mac version of iOS), it's visually depressing. Like looking at the rows and rows of concrete tenements in old Soviet cities.

I'll be sticking with Mojave on my 2018 Mini as long as I can keep it going.

 

[whiteboard]

Thread title:
"What does macOS look like moving forward?"

From where I stand, it "looks" UGLY.

I "stand" at OS's 10.12 (Low Sierra) and 10.14 Mojave on the Macs I use now. Both of these are visually pleasing to look at and use.

Yesterday, I installed the brand-new OS 12 on a spare SSD I had, and all I can think while looking at it, is... "ugh... awful".

If this is the future of the Mac OS (which is rapidly becoming the Mac version of iOS), it's visually depressing. Like looking at the rows and rows of concrete tenements in old Soviet cities.

I'll be sticking with Mojave on my 2018 Mini as long as I can keep it going.

I guess "seeing is believing" and the best way for me to know is to install Big Sur on a spare disk and play around with it.

What exactly upsets you the most about Big Sur's UI, @Fishrrman ?

I know that when I used Windows, I like the stripped own feeling of Windows 2000 and Windows XP. When I bought a tablet with Windows 8 on it I was disappointed as well as with Windows 10 - although the customed Windows 10 laptop I got at work looked and felt like Windows XP.

So what is it that you feel "went South" after Mojave?

 

[satcomer]

To me if you are on an older Intel Mac don’t even try to use the new Mac OS! Sure people will on this boards come up with hack to install on an Intel Mac!