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What happened with the price?
- Thread starter bl11
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Also currency fluctuations. The Euro has gone from 1.42 per US Dollar in 2014 to 1.2 per US Dollar now. Almost a 20% decline in the buying power of the Euro. I also believe the EU has added some new consumer protections which increases the warranty costs.
In 2014, the ease 15" without the dGPU was $1999 in the USA and around EUR 2000 in most EU countries (https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-mid-2014-retina-display-specs.html#macspecs3). The dGPU model was around EUR 2500 (https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-mid-2014-retina-display-specs.html#macspecs3)
Currently, the MBP without a dGPU has been de-facto discontinued (since Intel doesn't offer Iris Pro anymore), so the cheapest current MBP model with dGPU is $2399 in the USA (https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...retina-display-touch-bar-specs.html#macspecs3). Since (as pointed out by jerryk), euro has lost 20% of its value relative to the dollar since then, the EU prices went up to around EUR 2800.
In the end, the MBP is priced more or less identically to what it used to be before. In fact, the base dGPU model is cheaper than it used to be few years ago (it is also true though that you get less storage and a lower-tier CPU/GPU relatively speaking). Higher prices in EU are simply because dollar got stronger. Look at pries in Switzerland, which is not EU zone and doesn't use euros — the prices are identical for the 2014 dGPU model and the 2017 dGPU model.
P.S. UK got hit double, for reasons.
Currently, the MBP without a dGPU has been de-facto discontinued (since Intel doesn't offer Iris Pro anymore), so the cheapest current MBP model with dGPU is $2399 in the USA (https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...retina-display-touch-bar-specs.html#macspecs3). Since (as pointed out by jerryk), euro has lost 20% of its value relative to the dollar since then, the EU prices went up to around EUR 2800.
In the end, the MBP is priced more or less identically to what it used to be before. In fact, the base dGPU model is cheaper than it used to be few years ago (it is also true though that you get less storage and a lower-tier CPU/GPU relatively speaking). Higher prices in EU are simply because dollar got stronger. Look at pries in Switzerland, which is not EU zone and doesn't use euros — the prices are identical for the 2014 dGPU model and the 2017 dGPU model.
P.S. UK got hit double, for reasons.
Spend some time using the wayback machine, currency converters, and inflation calculators. You'll find the current models are technically cheaper (Pound for pound) than they used to be.
Just looking on the site now though, they were €1999-2099 for the base model 15". Did you get a refurb or a student discount or something?
Just looking on the site now though, they were €1999-2099 for the base model 15". Did you get a refurb or a student discount or something?
I found this graph to be quite interesting: https://imgur.com/a/zj5zA
There was a big price hike with the retina displays and then it went down slowly until a second price hike with the 2016 design. 2017 is missing from the graph but the prices stayed about the same except for the low-end 13" that went down (but it starts at 128gb SSD instead of 256gb...). So, taking inflation and currency conversions out of the picture, MBPs are overall more expensive.
On the upside it also means we could see prices slightly going down until the next big upgrade.
There was a big price hike with the retina displays and then it went down slowly until a second price hike with the 2016 design. 2017 is missing from the graph but the prices stayed about the same except for the low-end 13" that went down (but it starts at 128gb SSD instead of 256gb...). So, taking inflation and currency conversions out of the picture, MBPs are overall more expensive.
On the upside it also means we could see prices slightly going down until the next big upgrade.
Also don't forget EU has their special '2 year warranty' while the rest of the world only gets 1. Apple definitely isn't liking that and you guys are paying more for it.
This 2 year warranty is completely useless though and Apple knows it, so they don't care. Because with the way this works, after the first six months you need to prove that a flaw has been there when you bought the products (it doesn't cover defects occurring after purchase), and that's pretty much impossible to do.
Inflation has been at a steady 3-4% per anum in Europe for years, the exchange rate of the euro and the pound has dropped heavily against the dollar and the newer models always cost a little more and may slowly drop in price as production becomes a little cheaper over time, not to mention the huge amount of tax European countries add on to every sale.
Switzerland also has 2 years warranty and the price is pretty much the same as it used to be. Also, I never had any issues with warranty repairs (be it Apple or any other company) and I didn't need to "prove" anything. Especially Apple is usually extremely cooperative with these things. After all, its about their reputation and company image.
A company can do however they want, I'm only saying by law, you'd have to prove that the defect was there at the moment you purchased it to claim this warranty. The 1 year manufacturer warranty, on the other hand, usually also covers defects occurring during your use.
I believe that legislation states that within the first six months, it is up to the seller to prove to you that the fault is not their fault (as they are technically knowledgeable). Beyond this, it is up to you to prove to them to make a claim.
I actually used this to get a relative a used car, as she had bought a Mazda from an independent dealer and the engine seized. To my surprise, my letter (quoting the above legislation) worked and they offered to resolve the issue.
These (stupid) EU laws, whilst they occasionally come in handy for me or you, cost businesses a hell of a lot of money! lol
Yep, that's exactly how it works. And in both cases, it's pretty much impossible to prove whether the fault was there or not when you bought it, so it usually works out to a six month warranty, which in most cases is shorter than the manufacturer's warranty anyway.
Its all about solidary insurance, really. Businesses calculate these costs in the prices, and so customers help each other to protect their investment. Its a good system.
Sticker shot to be sure. I remember paying close to 1,500 dollars for my laptops for years - well before the MBP, back during the PowerBooks. Now, if I look at a current MBP, I'm walking away close to 2x that price. That's a tough pill to swallow
The 12" model maybe — the 13" is not any more expensive nowadays, despite inflation and whatnot. If anything, prices went down over the years.
P.S. Just looked it up, inflation since 2000 is supposedly 40%. So a laptop that use to cost $1500 back then should be $2,843.04 now.
There's also one more thing people like to forget: prices quoted in US are without sales tax while prices in Europe are with sales tax included. And most European countries have ridiculously high sales taxes of 19% or more. Assuming a 20% sales tax, a 2,800 Euro MBP is only 2,333.33 Euros without tax while here in Texas, the $2,399 MBP is really $2,596 (8.25% sales tax). There are also tons of extra charges in Europe that various interest groups have successfully lobbied for, for example a copyright fee on every device sold that would in theory be capable of creating a digital copy of a non-protected media entity such as a music CD or a purchased and downloaded MP3.
The issue with looking solely at inflation is that it gives an complete picture. The economies of scale and process improvements mean that it costs apple less to make laptops. I'm not prepared to start examining each component and see what the cost was for 10 years, but suffice to say that its not a fair representation to dismiss the price increase.
Well, sure, but was there a price increase to begin with? I just looked (very briefly) at everymac's listing for the beginning of 2000th. The 14-15" Mac laptops always started around $2000-2500. The cheaper PowerBook models are the 12" which came with slower CPU/GPU and were clearly predecessors of the 13" MBP. My point is that the prices today for respective model line are more or less the same then they were twenty years ago, despite inflation. There was a brief period (somewhere around Core 2 introduction) when the 15" MBP went down in price, but that changed when quad-core HQ CPUs series were released (at double the price).
I think you're mis-remembering what PowerBooks cost. Perhaps you were thinking of the iBook (which started at $999)?
The reality is, the current lineup of MacBook Pros is about as cheap (or cheaper) as they've ever been—but much like the pricing of Adobe's current CreativeCloud subscription software compared to the old perpetual license boxed software—we remember the "good old days" as being much, much "gooder" than they actually were.
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The PowerBook 100 had basically the same processor as the old Mac Portable, passive-matrix screen, and no internal floppy drive. It originally sold for $2,500, and never sold for less than $2,000.
The PowerBook G3 Series started at $2,299 for 233 MHz with no floppy drive and a 12" screen, and cost around $7,000 fully loaded.
The PowerBook G4 15" shipped in two configurations. The 400 MHz model with 128 MB of RAM and a 10 GB hard drive was $2,599, and the 500 MHz model with 256 MB of RAM and a 20 GB hard drive was $3,499. In mid-2001, These prices were reduced to $2,199 and $2,999, respectively. Around the time the 12" and 17" G4 PowerBooks were released, a new 15" model was introduced at around $2,000 and $2,500, respectively.
The PowerBook G4 17" originally sold for a starting price of $2,699 and was later reduced to $2,499 for the base model.
The PowerBook G4 12.1" included a 32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go graphics card. It came in a single configuration, with 256 MB of RAM and a 40 GB hard drive, for $1799. A SuperDrive configuration, with a 60 GB drive was also available for $1999. The PowerBook G4 12" (at $1,799) was the cheapest "pro" laptop ever sold.
------The PowerBook G3 Series started at $2,299 for 233 MHz with no floppy drive and a 12" screen, and cost around $7,000 fully loaded.
The PowerBook G4 15" shipped in two configurations. The 400 MHz model with 128 MB of RAM and a 10 GB hard drive was $2,599, and the 500 MHz model with 256 MB of RAM and a 20 GB hard drive was $3,499. In mid-2001, These prices were reduced to $2,199 and $2,999, respectively. Around the time the 12" and 17" G4 PowerBooks were released, a new 15" model was introduced at around $2,000 and $2,500, respectively.
The PowerBook G4 17" originally sold for a starting price of $2,699 and was later reduced to $2,499 for the base model.
The PowerBook G4 12.1" included a 32 MB NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go graphics card. It came in a single configuration, with 256 MB of RAM and a 40 GB hard drive, for $1799. A SuperDrive configuration, with a 60 GB drive was also available for $1999. The PowerBook G4 12" (at $1,799) was the cheapest "pro" laptop ever sold.
PS: I didn't set out to prove you wrong, but I remember spending close to your quoted $1,500 on an iBook G3 (or maybe it was a G4), so it got me curious enough to look it up. Looking back, the PowerBook line was ridiculously overpriced for the power/technology it delivered, even compared to the desktop models of the time.
I don't know why some argue that the MBP is not more expensive than it was when it's clear as day that it is. In 2011 you could buy a 15" with dGPU for 1799$ (1957$ with inflation). In 2017 you have to pay 2399$ for a 15" with dGPU.
It's so expensive that Apple is selling the 2015 15" along with the 2017 to offer a more affordable option. But even though it's 2 years old, it's still more expensive at 1999$ without dGPU.
It's so expensive that Apple is selling the 2015 15" along with the 2017 to offer a more affordable option. But even though it's 2 years old, it's still more expensive at 1999$ without dGPU.
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So basically, in 1991 you could buy a pro laptop for 2500$, in 2003 for 2199$, in 2004 1799$, 2011 1799$ and now we're suddenly back to the 1991 prices. Personal computers are supposed to go down in price over time as parts are getting cheaper, not the other way around.
Yes, and I explicitly mentioned this in my last post. I don't think that anyone would claim that the MBP didn't become more expensive since 2010/2011 (because they did, its a fact). That was the lowest price apple laptops ever had, as far as I know. But that pricing was also a bit of an outlier if you look at the big picture. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the prices to go back to the 2010/2011 level
But it will probably not happen because of a number of reasons (higher prices for components, for one).[doublepost=1516109805][/doublepost]
The parts are not getting cheaper though. CPUs are more expensive, RAM is more expensive, storage is more expensive, displays are more expensive, connectivity is more expensive. If you look around, this is by no means exclusive to Apple. Dell's new 13" XPS with 512GB SSD and HiDPI screen is $2,059.99, Microsoft SurfaceBooks are even higher up.
My recommendation if you want to upgrade to a recent model is to wait it out a bit and browse the refurb store. Within 6 months of a release you can find it there and pay latest. Unless you have a thing for it coming exactly brand new from the factory. If you have a 2014 MacBook Pro though, I would stretch out its use for another 3 to 4 years then upgrade.