What is a good NON-FIREWIRE DV camera?

T

The Truth

macrumors regular
Ok, in this new firewireless world that Apple is creating, can anyone recommend a camera that is easy to import from? What should I look for in a non-firewire DV cam?
 
Are using this for making indie films and industrial videos?

Or for like home movies like birthday parties and kids sporting events?

Do you need manual features or is a automatic ok for you?
 
The new camera that I like are the SONY XDCAM EX and Panasonic P2 Camcorders.

They both use laptop card slots.... no firewire needed.

But the memory cards cost a small fortune.
 
Chaos123x said:
The new camera that I like are the SONY XDCAM EX and Panasonic P2 Camcorders.

They both use laptop card slots.... no firewire needed.

But the memory cards cost a small fortune.
Click to expand...

Based upon the OP's questions, I would hardly fathom he's looking for a $5000-$6000+ camera, not budgeting the $1000(at least) you'll need in either P2 or SxS media.
 
Thanks for all the quick responses. Well I guess I was imagining a low end HD camera. What format do HDD cameras usually record to? Which formats are better than others for use with iMovie or Final Cut Express/Pro?
 
The Truth said:
Thanks for all the quick responses. Well I guess I was imagining a low end HD camera. What format do HDD cameras usually record to? Which formats are better than others for use with iMovie or Final Cut Express/Pro?
Click to expand...

I was going to post to ask something similar.

I currently use a Sony Mini DV camcorder that's probably 3 years old and while I'm not pro, I do like to do a fair bit of editing and post production on my home vids.

I don't want to spend a fortune. I don't need loads of features but I also don't want something that will look particularly worse quality than the current Mini DV camera.

My concern about HDD cameras is not having a replacable "tape". My concern about memory card cameras is that the resolution is going to be poor.

Any advice is appreciated.
 
nomad01 said:
My concern about HDD cameras is not having a replacable "tape". My concern about memory card cameras is that the resolution is going to be poor.
Click to expand...

I share your concern with HDD camcorders. Besides, I've never really liked the idea of an HDD in a portable recording device.

As for flash based camcorders, your concerns are unwarranted. As far as HD camcorders go, the flash ones are all AVCHD. This format has the same resolution as HDV (1920x1080) ... in fact, it actually has higher resolution since HDV is actually 1440x1080 with rectangular pixels.

At this point, it's inevitable that AVCHD will win out over HDV in the consumer market. It's a shame since I'm in the HDV camp (well, actually miniDV with the mindset to buy a Canon HV20/30). I guess the consumer has spoken and tapeless is what they want.

ft
 
I second what was said above - the Canon HF10 is a very solid camera from the reviews I have read, and you can find it online for around $700-$800. It records to a format called AVCHD and you can only transfer via USB 2.0. This is probably the camera I will pick up. I asked a similar question not too long ago and got a great site to reference. Really good, easy to understand reviews on camcorders...

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

Good luck!
 
ftaok said:
As for flash based camcorders, your concerns are unwarranted. As far as HD camcorders go, the flash ones are all AVCHD. This format has the same resolution as HDV (1920x1080) ... in fact, it actually has higher resolution since HDV is actually 1440x1080 with rectangular pixels.

At this point, it's inevitable that AVCHD will win out over HDV in the consumer market. It's a shame since I'm in the HDV camp (well, actually miniDV with the mindset to buy a Canon HV20/30). I guess the consumer has spoken and tapeless is what they want.

ft
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I wasn't planning on buying a HD model just yet especially as they all seem to be pretty expensive for the amount of use I'd get out of it.

May have to try and get some demos of a few memory card camcorders and see if the quality is acceptable compared to the Mini DV.

Thanks again.
 
duncanapple said:
I second what was said above - the Canon HF10 is a very solid camera
Click to expand...
The HF100 is the same camera without the rip-off built-in internal flash memory. You can buy an SDHC card to make up the storage difference for about a third of the price difference.

Andrew.
 
Ask yourself WHY you would want an HD capable camcorder.

What is your end product going to be?

DVD, Internet, Broadcast?


More than likely, youll be editing to show others on their TVs.

Your HD capable camcorder has a lovely HD image, but now what are you gonna do with it? Sure, edit it, cut it, produce it on your computer, but then what?

How are you gonna output the HD file to an HD playing device? You MAY have an HDTV, but how are you gonna get the movie to play on it?

Connect the camcorder to the TV? Kinda silly and not really able to send out to friends.

Connect the computer to the TV? Not always gonna work for most people.

Watch it only on the computer because you have a lovely HD capable screen? Thats not sharing.

Burn it to Blu-ray? You're joking right?

All the hub bub about HD is well founded, but until there is a viable OUTPUT I fail to see a general need for HD at all on the consumer/prosumer level.
 
Sdashiki said:
Ask yourself WHY you would want an HD capable camcorder.<snip>
Click to expand...

I'm most probably going to want to stick it on a DVD at present time so I take your point.

My concern is that the standard def memory card camcorders are inferior quality to my MiniDV. I've seen some really nice looking little memory card camcorders at amazing prices but I have no idea what the quality is like.

Most online reviews seem to be comparing them to HD cameras or pointing out that the quality would look bad on a HD TV.
 
Sdashiki said:
All the hub bub about HD is well founded, but until there is a viable OUTPUT I fail to see a general need for HD at all on the consumer/prosumer level.
Click to expand...

You may not agree, but I think that there is a viable output method for HD material. Media extenders are the way to go, in my book. It doesn't have to be the aTV, but it's devices like it that will be the way to view/share HD content.

Eventually, most TVs will be of the HD variety. Adding a small box (like the aTV) or adding media extending capabilities to cable/sat boxes will be key. Connect that to a host PC/Mac and you're golden.

Apple has gotten half of this equation down with the aTV, but they need to do more. Consumers with AVCHD/HDV cams will still need to use a PC/Mac to offload footage and to perform edits. It's just one extra click to convert that footage to aTV (or another format). Apple just needs to step it up and allow for the aTV to view full resolution HD, or at least allow it to stream AIC directly ... just need a robust home network.

Another output method is to burn BD compliant discs. Yeah, I know you disagree on this one, but it's an option. You just need a DVD-burner and a BD player. Toast can already do this ... and it shouldn't be difficult to add this capability to iDVD.

ft
 
nomad01 said:
I'm most probably going to want to stick it on a DVD at present time so I take your point.

My concern is that the standard def memory card camcorders are inferior quality to my MiniDV. I've seen some really nice looking little memory card camcorders at amazing prices but I have no idea what the quality is like.

Most online reviews seem to be comparing them to HD cameras or pointing out that the quality would look bad on a HD TV.
Click to expand...

Personally, if you're not going HD, then I would stick with the miniDV right now. That 3-year old Sony is probably still better than any flash SD cam you can get.

ft
 
ftaok said:
Personally, if you're not going HD, then I would stick with the miniDV right now. That 3-year old Sony is probably still better than any flash SD cam you can get.

ft
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I figured... just know that I'll eventually need to connect via FW to my new Macbook though. :-(
 
nomad01 said:
Yeah that's what I figured... just know that I'll eventually need to connect via FW to my new Macbook though. :-(
Click to expand...

Well, that's the deal killer for many with the new Macbooks. You could always go with the $999 Macbook. To me, it represents a great deal ... although the build quality isn't the best.

Ultimately, if you do stay with miniDV and want the new MB, you could always get a used Mac for importing duties. If you use iMovie'08, you'd probably want to use the oldest Mac that supports, '08. Or you could use something like Voltaic if you want to use an older Mac.

ft
 
ftaok said:
Well, that's the deal killer for many with the new Macbooks. You could always go with the $999 Macbook. To me, it represents a great deal ... although the build quality isn't the best.

Ultimately, if you do stay with miniDV and want the new MB, you could always get a used Mac for importing duties. If you use iMovie'08, you'd probably want to use the oldest Mac that supports, '08. Or you could use something like Voltaic if you want to use an older Mac.

ft
Click to expand...

I love my new Macbook but I will need to do some video editing at some point so I need to find a USB solution.

I don't want to pay for a HD camera right now so I guess I need to just look for a good standard def camera that will give decent results and isn't too pricey.

Maybe i just need to try them out though.
 
nomad01 said:
I love my new Macbook but I will need to do some video editing at some point so I need to find a USB solution.

I don't want to pay for a HD camera right now so I guess I need to just look for a good standard def camera that will give decent results and isn't too pricey.

Maybe i just need to try them out though.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that you bought a new MB. Incidentally, I was playing with one at the store and it's a great little machine. Seems very well built and looks great.

If you're intent on staying with SD, I would suggest getting something that uses flash memory. Here's why. When you eventually move up to HD, chances are you'd be getting an flash based AVCHD model. If you do, your investment in SD cards don't evaporate. Try and find a SD cam that supports SDHC cards, as that's what you'll be using in the future.

Try looking at Apple's compatibilty page to see which SD cams are supported. That'll narrow down the models to look at.

I'd also recommend Canon, Sony and Panasonic as they're the usual suspects for quality video cams.

Lastly, in order to keep your total cash outlay to a minimum, consider going HD now. AVCHD is several years old and has gotten pretty close to HDV. It's pretty mature at this point. I think you can still record at SD resolutions (although there may be problems if you record SD and HD on the same card) if you really want to do SD.

AVCHD cams are getting pretty affordable these days.

ft
 
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