What is a good NON-FIREWIRE DV camera?

[harcosparky]

Personally, if you're not going HD, then I would stick with the miniDV right now. That 3-year old Sony is probably still better than any flash SD cam you can get.

ft

Any HD MiniDV cam will give better results than the HDD/ Flash Memory Cams. I can't speak to comparing SD MiniDV to flash though. From what I have read the compression level on ACVHD is such that the video quality will not be as good as that on tape. I read where ACVHD has at least one or two more generations to work through to get the quality level up.

Again, it's not so much a matter of resolution, it's about compression to get as much time on the HDD / Flash Memory as possible.

 

[Le Big Mac]

Burn it to Blu-ray? You're joking right?

All the hub bub about HD is well founded, but until there is a viable OUTPUT I fail to see a general need for HD at all on the consumer/prosumer level.

On the other hand, if you take HD footage of your baby today, I'm pretty sure that by her second or third birthday you can burn to blu-ray, or stream directly to your tv. Having high quality source material is never a mistake.

 

[nutmac]

If you want HD, I recommend HF100. Few things to consider:

• There are 2 popular HD camcorder formats: HDV (uses MiniDV tapes) and AVCHD (can be flash memory, hard disk, or DVD).
• iMovie and Final Cut import footage from HDV camcorders via FireWire. Import from AVCHD is done over USB and/or memory card reader (for flash-based camcorder), or DVD (for DVD-based camcorder).
• Both iMovie and FCE cannot edit HDV and AVCHD footage without conversion. They convert HDV and AVCHD into Apple Intermediate Codec, which consumes almost 10 times the disk space as the original: 17 Mbps (7.5 GB per hour) vs. whopping 120 Mbps (52.7 GB per hour). Needless to say, beef up on the external hard disk.
• Final Cut Pro can edit HDV without conversion. Many video editing software for Windows platform can edit AVCHD and HDV without conversion on higher-end computers. Perhaps iMovie '09 and FCE 5 will do the same?
• Importing and converting HDV to AIC is done in real-time. AVCHD requires additional processing power, which can take much longer than HDV on slower Mac.
• Although AVCHD camcorders made last year (and earlier) recorded inferior video footage when compared HDV, the gap has been virtually eliminated with 3rd and 4th generation updates. I have compared HF100 to HV30 and frankly, I can't tell any difference.
• Some online video websites, such as Vimeo, offer free 720p HD video hosting.

 

[The Truth]

If you want HD, I recommend HF100. Few things to consider:

Wow, awesome answer thank you!

 

[Chris7]

I'm new to HD (just bought FCP and an AVCHD Canon, the HF100). Someone with some HD experiences correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many people would try to edit HD without an external RAID hard drive, which would require a FW800 or an ExpressCared34 port. It seems the Macbook is no longer an option for video editing -- Apple wants you to buy a MacBook Pro for this.

 

[Gymnut]

I'm new to HD (just bought FCP and an AVCHD Canon, the HF100). Someone with some HD experiences correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many people would try to edit HD without an external RAID hard drive, which would require a FW800 or an ExpressCared34 port. It seems the Macbook is no longer an option for video editing -- Apple wants you to buy a MacBook Pro for this.

Ideally you would be utilizing two hard drives when editing. In the case of a laptop, the second drive would be an external drive with one or more interfaces, USB2.0, FW400, FW800, or eSATA. The internal drive in the laptop obviously contains the OS and the editing software that you are using. The external drive would be designated as a "scratch disk" where the media you are editing is stored.

It's just a tried and tested practice to keep your media that you've captured on a separate hard drive.

A RAID is not necessarily a prerequisite to editing high definition content. I've edited HDV content that was stored on a Lacie bus powered FW400 drive without encountering problems.

 

[nomad01]

Has anyone used the Panasonic SDR S7? I know it's not a serious piece of kit but I can get an amazing price for it at the minute.

User reviews generally say that it's brilliant but magazine reviews are a bit more iffy.

I want something that'll produce decent home movies but not just look like it was shot on a digital still camera or a webcam... if that makes sense.

 

[Chris7]

I've edited HDV content that was stored on a Lacie bus powered FW400 drive without encountering problems.

This is interesting. Have you tried using a non-RAID drive for editing 1920 x 1080 ProRes or AIC (the formats which FCP and IMovie transcode AVCHD to on import)?

 

[nutmac]

I'm new to HD (just bought FCP and an AVCHD Canon, the HF100). Someone with some HD experiences correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many people would try to edit HD without an external RAID hard drive, which would require a FW800 or an ExpressCared34 port. It seems the Macbook is no longer an option for video editing -- Apple wants you to buy a MacBook Pro for this.

On my previous post, I wrote iMovie and FCE transcode AVCHD footage to AIC running at 100-120 Mbps. To be able to playback in real time, you will need a hard disk that can sustain 150 Mbps or so easily (18 MB/sec), which MacBook's USB 2 can do (about 30 MB/sec sustained read, 19 MB/sec sustained write, but around 10 MB/sec for random read and write).

 

[Courtaj]

Has anyone used the Panasonic SDR S7? I know it's not a serious piece of kit but I can get an amazing price for it at the minute.

YGWYPF. Below average to mediocre standard definition video shooting outdoors in good lighting. Forget about using it indoors. You might be more forgiving given the price (i.e. you'll go in with low expectations) but do you really want to watch sub-par video more than once? MiniDV at the same price or near offer will smoke it. That says it all, really.

 

[Chris7]

you will need a hard disk that can sustain 150 Mbps or so easily (18 MB/sec), which MacBook's USB 2 can do (about 30 MB/sec sustained read, 19 MB/sec sustained write, but around 10 MB/sec for random read and write).

Thanks. Sorry I did not catch your post before I posted. Sounds like editing on a Macbook is indeed possible, so long as only one stream is used.

BTW, is there a way to set the HV100 so that the 24P/30P does not stutter when panning?

 

[nomad01]

YGWYPF. Below average to mediocre standard definition video shooting outdoors in good lighting. Forget about using it indoors. You might be more forgiving given the price (i.e. you'll go in with low expectations) but do you really want to watch sub-par video more than once? MiniDV at the same price or near offer will smoke it. That says it all, really.

Okay. Point taken.

Now looking at a HD camera... considering Panasonic's HDC-SD9EB. Needs to look at reviews first though. :-s

 

[Courtaj]

considering Panasonic's HDC-SD9EB

I can vouch for the SD9. It's not wonderful in low light indoors (noisy, grainy) as you'll have discovered reading the reviews. The Canon HF100 is better (picture quality, shooting modes, mic input and all that jazz), but more expensive. The SD9 is still good value for money in my opinion, but I find myself using the manual exposure mode to get the best pictures out of it. Panasonics in general have comprehensive manual control of iris, shutter, and gain.

If you decide to plump for the SD9, since you're in the UK I'd recommend using either Amaz0n (who sell it with a free 8GB SDHC card) or Dix0ns online (in black, with a 4GB card), both for about the same price.

Cheers,
Andrew.

 

[nomad01]

I can vouch for the SD9. It's not wonderful in low light indoors (noisy, grainy) as you'll have discovered reading the reviews. The Canon HF100 is better (picture quality, shooting modes, mic input and all that jazz), but more expensive. The SD9 is still good value for money in my opinion, but I find myself using the manual exposure mode to get the best pictures out of it. Panasonics in general have comprehensive manual control of iris, shutter, and gain.

If you decide to plump for the SD9, since you're in the UK I'd recommend using either Amaz0n (who sell it with a free 8GB SDHC card) or Dix0ns online (in black, with a 4GB card), both for about the same price.

Cheers,
Andrew.

Thanks very much for the advice.

To be fair, my Sony MiniDV camcorder (purchased in 2004... found the receipt last night!) is pretty bad in low light too and it's never been a huge issue for me. If the Panasonic is about the same or not too much worse then I'd be happy.

The HF100 was another option but yeah... the price is an issue. If I was a serious user, I'd go for that in a heartbeat but I can't justify spending quite a lot on something I don't use very often.

 

[highjumppudding]

Go Canon. Get the 32GB flash drive (+ sdhc with optional card). Do not get a hard drive version, they break.

 

[Courtaj]

Go Canon. Get the 32GB flash drive (+ sdhc with optional card). Do not get a hard drive version, they break.

The HFs with the built-in flash memory (i.e. HF10) are a bad idea for three reasons.

1. You can buy the less expensive model without the built-in memory (i.e. HF100) and make up the difference with SDHC cards for less money;
2. You are restricted to plugging the camera directly into your Mac when importing clips from the built-in memory;
3. The built-in memory is slower (and noticeably so) than most widely-available SDHC cards.

 

[nutmac]

The HFs with the built-in flash memory (i.e. HF10) are a bad idea for three reasons.
...

In addition, at least on HF10 and HF11, when internal memory gets filled up, it doesn't automatically let you continue recording on to the memory card. You need to stop recording and use the menu to switch over to the memory card to continue recording. While that may be easier than switching memory cards, it's heck of a lot easier and faster to import using SDHC memory card reader. Currently, you can get class 6 SDHC 16 GB (good for over 2 hours of recording at 17 Mbps) for about $40, typically with memory card included. In about same time next year, I am sure you will be able to get 32 GB for the same price (or lower).