What Is Better: Adobe Premiere Pro...or...Final Cut?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by magentawave, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. magentawave macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    #1
    I'm going to be shooting video and making instructional videos. I need something to edit video, add transitions, titles & credits, easily edit audio with fade outs and fade ins, etc. It must be easy to use. I already have Premiere Pro that I can install on the Windows side of my Mac too.

    Here are my questions please...

    1) What is a better and easier to use program? Premiere Pro or Final Cut?

    2) Is Premiere Pro for Mac easier to use than the Windows version?

    3) Like I said; I already have Premiere Pro for Windows, and IF it is as easy to use as the Mac version, then I will probably just stay with it. On the other hand, I have heard forever that Macs are best for editing video and audio, so if that is the case, what pitfalls can I expect using Premiere Pro for Windows on my Mac using VMWare Fusion with XP? (I have 4 gigs of ram)

    4) I already have iMovie. Is iMovie a joke or is it decent?

    Thanks
    Steve
     
  2. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Location:
    Middle Earth
    #2
    Final Cut Studio is due to be refreshed.

    I'd say that Premier Pro has gained a lot of ground but there's a more vibrant base around Final Cut Studio .

    Adobe has a jewel though in After Effects. What's your time frame on making a choice?

    Conventional wisdom says that Apple will deliver a 64-bit version of Final Cut Studio to coincide with Snow Leopard.

    Are you running an Intel based Mac?
     
  3. mmulin macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    #4
    It is a definitely a workflow question. If you are used to Premier maybe stick to it. However, you also could test your grounds on FC Express before moving full step to FCS. Personally, having worked with every major AV editing distribution/ set throughout the years, I still prefer FCS or hardware Avid.
     
  4. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020

    CaptainChunk

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Location:
    Tempe, AZ
    #5
    Same here. It's not that Premiere is necessarily an inferior product, it's that I've grown accustomed to the workflows of the FCS and Avid platforms and overall, it's easier go back and forth between different crafts (sound mixers, colorists, VFX artists, etc.) with the more "industry accepted" platforms.

    But on the other hand, Premiere integrates seamlessly with After Effects and Photoshop, which can be plus.
     
  5. mmulin macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    #6
    There is no way you going to run video editing through a virtual machine. Alone the problem of scratching already will slow your productivity to 0. Add GPU access, bandwidths, etc.

    You can use Boot Camp though.
     
  6. THX1139 macrumors 68000

    THX1139

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #7
    If all you are doing is simple cuts and transitions you can get by with iMovie. FCS and Premiere are professional products that may overwhelm you with a learning curve that you might not even need, especially if you are trying to keep it simple. Start there and move your way up.
     
  7. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    #8
    What is "the problem of scratching?"

    I was under the impression that a macbook pro/2.4/4GB/VMWare Fusion with XP would run any Windows program I want just fine. Why is that some people say their computer runs great configured like that and others say its super slow?

    I will have to search elsewhere on this forum for information (advantages & disadvantages) on running windows on Bootcamp over using VMWare Fusion.

    Thank you
    Steve

    Model Name: MacBook Pro
    Model Identifier: MacBookPro4,1
    Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
    Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
    Number Of Processors: 1
    Total Number Of Cores: 2
    L2 Cache: 3 MB
    Memory: 4 GB
    Bus Speed: 800 MHz
    Boot ROM Version: MBP41.00C1.B03
    SMC Version (system): 1.27f2
     
  8. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    #9
    My time frame is my own but I'm eager to get started with this project.

    Even though I already have Adobe Master Collection for Windows and have only made a couple videos, I might still be willing to cut loose if something else is a lot better so I'm not wasting time with the learning curve on a program I won't be using.

    Thanks
    Steve
     
  9. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jun 8, 2009
    #10
    But does iMovie allow you to edit multiple audio clips? I opened it a few days ago and couldn't find a way to even see the audio clips as waveforms. I googled the problem too and none of answers seemed to apply to my version of iMovie (7.1.4).

    Steve
     
  10. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jun 8, 2009
  11. Dr.Pants macrumors 65816

    Dr.Pants

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    #12
    The best way (IMO, the only way) to run Windows on the Mac and use professional programs is to run it natively. VMs work for a lot of certain things (Office, TurboTax, and the like), but these programs rarely demand performance. When using a high-footprint program, the VM will chug as both operating systems are using the same system resources.

    In fact, a good idea would be to have a scratch drive and connect it via your FW400 port (thank you Mactracker program); once again, its about system resources. I/Os from your internal drive for the OS will hinder I/Os of the editable media - so to get the maximum I/Os, use separate system and scratch drives.
     
  12. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jun 8, 2009
    #13
    So are you of the opinion that running a program like Adobe Premiere Pro Windows version using VMWare Fusion with XP would run too slowly?

    I looked up on Wikipedia what a "scratch drive" is and see that is something that graphic designers often employ, but wouldn't that be especially slow for a program like Premiere Pro for windows?

    Thanks
    Steve
     
  13. arjen92 macrumors 65816

    arjen92

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Location:
    Below sea level
    #14
    He,

    This is what I know

    iMovie is nice for consumers. I you want to make a fun movie it's great. But if you have a lot to edit, or want a bit more freedom iMovie is not your choice. (but you figured that out already didn't you)

    If I were you I would stay with the adobe package for windows. Mac is great because it's more stable, and.... well that's the only reason I actually know. I guess they like how easy it is too. I prefer the mac, because it's less hassle. But what's more hassle? get a new package, or use it on windows.

    The reason why it just won't run nice on your virtual machine is because it does not have it's own GPU. It's a virtual machine, and it only has a "virtual video chipset". although I've heard VMware is (coming with) 3d support. To make it more clear, I can run windows 7 with all it's glitter and glare without a problem when I'm using bootcamp. When I open the bootcamp windows through VMware (so while I'm using mac os x) windows 7 isn't able to produce the graphics, because the virtual machine lacks resources.

    I don't know much about the scratch disk with a virtual machine. What I do know is that it's usefull to have an external drive on which your media is. This way you have 2 drives, which will increase speed. Cause one is for when your RAM is full, and the other for your files (scratch disk).

    Hope it helps.

    (p.s. I'd go for adobe on your pc, I also heard all editor's do the same, only the button's are on a different place)
     
  14. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    #15
    So bottom line: A program like Premiere Pro for Windows will be a dog on a virtual machine. Right? But are you saying that I could run Premiere Pro for Windows just fine on Bootcamp?

    Thank you
    Steve
     
  15. akdj macrumors 65816

    akdj

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Alaska
    #16
    "So bottom line: A program like Premiere Pro for Windows will be a dog on a virtual machine. Right? But are you saying that I could run Premiere Pro for Windows just fine on Bootcamp?"

    EXACTLY what he's saying. Do NOT run video editing of any kind through a VM. You will not be editing anymore....you will be waiting:)

    Bootcamp allows you to run Windows separately. You can boot directly into the OS and your Mac will operate as a Windows machine (just more stable:))

    Good Luck

    J
     
  16. DaReal_Dionysus macrumors regular

    DaReal_Dionysus

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    #17
    The age old question. How many well name professional studios use Premiere? Final Cut is the standard in the industry. You make the call
     
  17. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #18
    Funny, Avid users used to ask the same question when people brought up FCP vs Avid threads. The rumblings I hear about Premiere today remind me of similar rumblings I heard about FCP 6 or 7 years ago.


    Lethal
     
  18. BigSky20 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    #19
    I am facing this same question. I just ordered FCS2, but may return it and get Production Premiere Suite. My comparison is based on the whole premiere suite vs the final cut suite.

    My main pros/cons are as follows:

    Premiere Suite:

    Pros
    *Native AVCHD editing (just got better with latest update)
    *Blu Ray Support
    *Smooth integration with other programs such as Photoshop, After Effects, etc.
    *Photoshop and After Effects - both awesome and industry leading programs.

    Cons
    *I do not like the interface as well as I like FCP.
    *No "Color" like program.

    FCS2:

    Pros
    *Color - One of the main reasons I will probably stick with FCS2
    *Motion - Although not as powerful as After Effects, I like using Motion much better than After Effects
    *Apple ProRes - This makes editing AVCHD footage very smoothly. However, the huge file sizes is a big con.

    Cons
    *Apple ProRes - See above
    *No Blu Ray support is crazy for a "Pro App"

    I probably will stick with FCS2 and hope for a nice upgrade with FCS3 that may support Blu Ray and native AVCHD editing.

    This may sound crazy (probably not on this forum), but to me Apple products are a lot more fun to use than Adobe products!
     
  19. magentawave thread starter macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    #20
    "I don't know much about the scratch disk with a virtual machine. What I do know is that it's usefull to have an external drive on which your media is. This way you have 2 drives, which will increase speed. Cause one is for when your RAM is full, and the other for your files (scratch disk)."

    I hope you don't mind me asking all these dumb questions but what you are telling me above is important and I could use some clarification please... :confused:

    1) When you say "media" are you referring to the actual program (which is Premiere Pro for Windows in this case)? And if so, does that mean that you install the actual program on the external hard drive?

    2) What do you mean when you say that "one (hard drive) is for when your RAM is full"?

    Thanks again.

    Steve
     
  20. EmperorDarius macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    #21
    Premiere = Prosumer.
    Final Cut Studio = Professional.

    Final Cut > Premiere
     
  21. akdj macrumors 65816

    akdj

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Alaska
    #22
    "My main pros/cons are as follows:

    Premiere Suite:

    Pros
    *Native AVCHD editing (just got better with latest update)
    *Blu Ray Support
    *Smooth integration with other programs such as Photoshop, After Effects, etc.
    *Photoshop and After Effects - both awesome and industry leading programs.

    Cons
    *I do not like the interface as well as I like FCP.
    *No "Color" like program. "

    Big Sky....No "Color" like program at one time was a $25,000 piece of software:) Thankfully Apple bought it and incorporated it! A HUGE seller! Makes it thee pro app with that addition, IMO between the two!

    "FCS2:

    Pros
    *Color - One of the main reasons I will probably stick with FCS2
    *Motion - Although not as powerful as After Effects, I like using Motion much better than After Effects
    *Apple ProRes - This makes editing AVCHD footage very smoothly. However, the huge file sizes is a big con.

    Cons
    *Apple ProRes - See above
    *No Blu Ray support is crazy for a "Pro App""

    Final Cut is an editing program. Why would it support Blu Ray? DVD Studio Pro is an authoring program that would be where Apple would support BluRay....not in FCP. Toast allows about as much authoring options for Blu Ray as Premiere. Both are pretty basic actually. But again....this is only a matter of authoring after edit. You can find Blu Ray authoring for alot better deal than what Adobe is asking.

    "I probably will stick with FCS2 and hope for a nice upgrade with FCS3 that may support Blu Ray and native AVCHD editing." AVC is not a pro format. I'm sure it will be included, as it has become a "good enough" solution to the consumer level camcorder.....but in the pro ring, AVC or other highly compressed formats will not be a priority. With bigger and bigger HDDs available, the uncompressed (or less compressed) formats will be the choice. Look at how huge RAW is in the still world now.

    j
     
  22. mmulin macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    #23
    Scratch Disk: The amount of video data, applications need to handle, can not be simply put into RAM. In full HD quality they might go into TBs of data. Editing application will but the temporary ("scratch") data on the disk while rendering effects, cuts, etc. In a usual editing environment you will have very fast RAID sets or at least, in smaller scale, dedicated disks for the editing application to use. Since there is a lot of disk access necessary while huge amounts of data is shuffled between RAM and HD, mostly, the scratch disks are used solely for this temporary data. Source material and final products, applications, the OS, etc are running from separate disks.

    Of course it is possible to to run everything of one disk, like it is often the case on laptops for example. But performance will suffer immensely and it is only advisable for rough pre-editing on the road, or, if you will, making a home movie. Since Apple laptops provide (these days "provided" :( ) firewire ports the situation could be helped to some extend. USB is feasible but less so since it is not a streaming protocol.

    Virtual Machine (VM): In a VM everything the OS sees, in your case Windows, is abstracted by the application (Fusion, Parallels, etc). Inherently, Windows "thinks" it is running on a standard PC. Nevertheless, almost every call to the system as in writing/ reading data to/ from the disk image, drawing a picture on your screen via the graphic card, etc travels through this extra layer of virtualization. Besides this your host OS, OSX, is also running, requesting disk, CPU, GPU, RAM access, etc. Especially for the guest OS, huge bottle necks on all fronts are a certain reality, and unforgivable for high performance computing as video editing is. Another example, real-time previews of effects, are impossible in such an environment since there is no direct access to GPU features.

    Software VM, as Fusion and Parallels, are certainly useful for a large range of appliances and have become quite usable. These days even older 3D games will perform admirably on it but don't confuse this with video editing, scientific computing, and akin. It is still a limited solution to run several OSes at one time and add benefit to your computing experiences if you need such.

    Boot Camp: This is not a virtualization. Boot Camp will create a partition on the hard disk for use with another OS and provide an EFI hook to simulate a BIOS (Macs don't have a BIOS they use the more advanced EFI standard) upon which Windows is able to boot on a Mac. Additionally, Apple provides Windows drivers for the Mac hardware. Unlike in a VM solution, only one OS can run at the time. To switch, one must restart the computer into the other OS. However, nothing is virtualised (arguably the BIOS but can be neglected) and Windows us running as it would run on a PC with direct access to all the hardware and performance available.

    I hope that helps.
     
  23. Truffy macrumors 6502a

    Truffy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    somewhere outside your window...
    #24
    Media = your captured video / audio / images

    The application is installed on one disk (most likely your system disk), your media should be captured and authored on another disk (the scratch disk). As has been stated earlier, this means that I/O traffic between the application and system will not interrupt the smooth flow of data from your media.

    As for Premiere burning to Bluray, like FCP I think this is unlikely. It's been a long time since I've used the Adobe products, but like DVDSP the DVD burining app of the Adobe suite is Encore.
     
  24. BigSky20 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2007
    #25

    Please note I was talking about Final Cut Studio 2, which does include DVD Studio Pro and shoud include Blu Ray. Also, the Adobe suite supports Blu Ray pop up menus. I do not believe Toast allows you to do this yet.
     

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