What is considered BTO?

neoserver

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 24, 2003
335
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I will be buying a Mac Pro in the next couple of weeks and have a question. What configuration changes on the Apple Store site would cause my machine to be labeled as a "Build-to-order" machine.

I want to reduce any chance of trouble in the event that the machine ever needs to be replaced by Apple. Would I have any troubles if my machine was a BTO machine?

Thanks
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,400
12,410
Any change to the standard configurations (adding RAM, bigger HD) would be considered a BTO. A BTO will have no effect on your service through Apple. BTO machines can not be returned.
 

neoserver

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 24, 2003
335
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rdowns said:
A BTO will have no effect on your service through Apple. BTO machines can not be returned.
Ah. That would be the source of my confusion. I got the inability to return the machine confused with replacement.

Thanks very much!
 

matttrick

macrumors 6502
Aug 28, 2006
371
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rdowns said:
Any change to the standard configurations (adding RAM, bigger HD) would be considered a BTO. A BTO will have no effect on your service through Apple. BTO machines can not be returned.
which is by leaps and bounds apple's worst policy.
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
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A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
You can still always return a defective BTO machine to Apple, but you can't
exchange a BTO at the store simply because they don't carry BTO's in stock.

Most people buy the stock machine adding maybe a GPU upgrade, but
adding RAM and HD's is always much more affordable 3rd Party.

This way if your machine does develop a problem you pull any 3rd party hardware
to rule out 3rd party issues and take it into the the store genius bar.

If you don't want to wait for the X1900XT BTO upgrade, you can purchase it stand alone at the Apple Online store later.

Just go to the store page and search X1900XT

The price is $399.00 retail $359.00 Edu
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
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A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
That's considered a minor in store upgrade, but you'll pay way too much buying
your RAM at the store.

It's a 5 minute DIY job on any machine except the mini, which takes a bit of careful
skill and two putty knives.
 

ClayDavid

macrumors newbie
Jul 15, 2006
12
0
It was explained to me by an Apple employee though the chat-helper thing on Apple's website that a BTO is anything that adds cost to the basic configuration. Anything that doesn't add cost wouldn't be considered BTO and can be returned.
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
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A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
What machine are you looking at Matt?

For MacBooks and MBP's and iMacs

Apple charges $90.00 edu to add 512MB for a total of 1GB installed.

If you upgrade to 2 GB, they are charging you $450.00 to add 1.5 GB for a total
install of 2 GB's

You can go to OWC and pay for Factory original Samsung RAM, buying 2 X 1GB DIMMS in a matched pair for $159.99 each

Or go to Datamem.com and get Apple guaranteed DIMMS for about $125.00 each.

The ONLY reasonable upgrade Apple has at the moment is for MacPro FULLY BUFFERED ECC 2X 512MB DIMM upgrade to bring your system up to 2 GB and that's $270.00 edu

Otherwise, buy your extra RAM 3rd party making sure you buy from a known quality retailer.
 

MattDell

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2006
274
3
London, UK
I'm looking at a MacBook Pro. My girlfriend is looking at a MacBook.

We both want to upgrade to 1GB RAM, so I don't have any problem paying the extra $90 for that. It just sounded to me like you had to pay extra on top of the $90 to have it installed in-store.

-Matt
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
MattDell said:
What do you mean I'll pay way too much? The prices aren't the same as the web site?

-Matt
The price is exactly the same on the website and the retail locations, but when you BTO a machine -- they give you a credit for the old memory.

When you purchase an aftermarket item from Apple, you get no credit for the standard memory the don't install in the machine.

Just don't confuse a BTO upgrade with the retail cost of the memory.
 

rtharper

macrumors regular
Sep 6, 2006
201
0
Oxford, UK
generik said:
Buy Apple's ram once and see for yourself.
Okay, so clarify something for me, if you will (apologies in advance for hijacking this thread for a second). The RAM upgrades on Apple's website are ASTRONOMICAL. To go from 1GB of RAM to 2 is a 300USD upgrade on the MacBook Pro. Is it cheaper to get laptop RAM from Apple seperately and then install it yourself? Or do you have to buy 3rd party RAM to pay saner prices? Anyone had experience doing this (buying 3rd party laptop RAM?).
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
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A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
Just so you know, your MacBook and MacBook Pro only have 2 RAM slots.

If you buy the 1 GB upgrade you're really only getting an additional 512MB's
for that $90.00

You will then have 2 X 512MB sticks installed for a total of 1 GB.

If you plan to run any Pro applications like Adobe CS2, FCP or Logic,
you're going to want 2 GB installed.

It's fine to start out with 1 GB , but you'll soon end up pulling those DIMMS
to replace them with 2 X 1GB.

Once you do upgrade, keep the original DIMMS in the event you have to take your machine in for any repairs.
 

ZoomZoomZoom

macrumors 6502a
May 2, 2005
767
0
FFTT said:
The ONLY reasonable upgrade Apple has at the moment is for MacPro FULLY BUFFERED ECC 2X 512MB DIMM upgrade to bring your system up to 2 GB and that's $270.00 edu

Otherwise, buy your extra RAM 3rd party making sure you buy from a known quality retailer.
Actually, the iMac ram upgrade isn't too bad. $158 for 2x 1GB ram upgrade with the edu discount. If you're not too good with selling old RAM (the default 1GB ram iMac is 2x 512MB, so you'd have to replace both if you wanted 2GB) then getting the upgrade through Apple might be worth it. Might pay extra in the end, but it's not exorbitant, and you won't have to keep old ram and swap it back if you want to send it back to AppleCare.
 

bob5820

macrumors 6502a
FFTT said:
The ONLY reasonable upgrade Apple has at the moment is for MacPro FULLY BUFFERED ECC 2X 512MB DIMM upgrade to bring your system up to 2 GB and that's $270.00 edu
Actually it may be more correct to say that for FB-DIMMS the 3rd paty suppliers are just being as unreasonable as Apple. Works out the same though.
 

MattDell

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2006
274
3
London, UK
I do realize that about the 2x 512s. Are you certain I'll need 2GB of RAM? I currently run my Powerbook G4 (867Mhz with 768MB RAM) and it's very reasonable in speed. I figured a 2.0Ghz MBP with 1GB of RAM would be cake.

Or is Rosetta really that much of a hog?

-Matt
SunBaked - But if I'm going 512mb + another 512mb installed at the Apple Store, I wouldn't have to worry about getting credit for a stick of ram, right?
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
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A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
Zoom, you're right about the extra 1 GB upgrade on the iMac.

$158.00 to end up with 2X 1GB falls right in line with OWC's pricing.

That's one of the few times I've seen an Apple RAM upgrade conform to
the average market price.

It's unfortunate that Apple is not doing the same with their notebook RAM pricing.

512MB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x256
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512 [Add $90]
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB [Add $450]

I see no valid reason why Apple is charging so much more for their notebook DIMMS. both machines use 667 DDR2 PC5300 SDRAM
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
0
A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
MattDell said:
I do realize that about the 2x 512s. Are you certain I'll need 2GB of RAM? I currently run my Powerbook G4 (867Mhz with 768MB RAM) and it's very reasonable in speed. I figured a 2.0Ghz MBP with 1GB of RAM would be cake.

Or is Rosetta really that much of a hog?

-Matt
SunBaked - But if I'm going 512mb + another 512mb installed at the Apple Store, I wouldn't have to worry about getting credit for a stick of ram, right?
Per Apple
"The 2GB option is ideal if you plan to use your system regularly for sound design, video editing, DVD authoring, animation and intensive gaming."

If you are using all Universal Binary applications, you can get by with 1 GB for now, but IF you are using PPC Pro applications, YES Rosetta really is that much of a RAM hog.

What REALLY sucks is that Apple is only charging $158.00 to upgrade an iMac
to 2 X 1GB using the same DIMMS while charging $450.00 in their notebooks.

Both machines use 667 DDR2 PC5300 SDRAM

You may even want to confront the store manager about this pricing issue.

paste from iMac RAM configuration
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB [Add $158]
3GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x2GB, 1x1GB [Add $675]

paste from Mac Book configuration
512MB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x256
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512 [Add $90]
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB [Add $450]

Even when you consider that the MacBook only ships with 512MB stock,
it's hard to justify the difference.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
MattDell said:
SunBaked - But if I'm going 512mb + another 512mb installed at the Apple Store, I wouldn't have to worry about getting credit for a stick of ram, right?
Yep, $100 for a BTO upgrade, and $100 for a retail DIMM.

But the 2GB retail 2 DIMMs are $600, versus the BTO upgrade of $500 (aka $600 - $100 for base DIMM)

People just look at the BTO page, and don't search out the memory under Mac Accessories on the website.
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
0
A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
bob5820 said:
Actually it may be more correct to say that for FB-DIMMS the 3rd paty suppliers are just being as unreasonable as Apple. Works out the same though.
The Mac Pro qualified DIMMS have had suppliers scrambling to locate sticks
with the Correct oversized heat spreaders.

Right now it's a matter of supply and demand.

Since Apple recommends match sets of 4 DIMMS for ideal operation, many are going ahead with the Apple installed 4 X512MB's for now until the prices drop.

Pretty much anywhere you find the CORRECT DIMMS, they're running $250.00 per GB and up.
 

milozauckerman

macrumors 6502
Jun 25, 2005
477
0
The x1900xt aftermarket upgrade costs quite a bit more than having it BTO - with the ADC discount it's $200 vs. $359, with the student it's somewhat less but not by a lot.

$160 is a lot to pay just so you can swap out your Mac in-store.
 

FFTT

macrumors 68030
Apr 17, 2004
2,952
0
A Stoned Throw From Ground Zero
The only problem with the factory BTO X1900XT upgrade is the 3-5 WEEK shipping delay.

The price is much better having it included with you purchase, but some people simply can't wait that long to get rolling.

The Mac Pro DIMM prices have a lot of people cutting corners.

For heavy professional use in the Mac Pro you really want 4 GB, but that's beyond what many people can afford, So they're getting at least 2 GB hoping the prices will come down eventually.