What is the best 8600/250 Graphics card under OS 9?

tevion5

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I own a 8600 running MacOS 9.2.2 quite nicely. I've it kitted out with extra ram, USB ports, firewire ports and it connects to my airport network and the Internet. It even hosts an FTP server with RUMPUS.

It's only draw back is it's measly 4MB graphics memory. (The previous owner upgraded it from 2 -> 4). The iTunes visualiser goes at about 2FPS :p

Any ideas? PCI cards I assume, but which ones work with a stock 8600?
 

Intell

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The 9200 PCI is the best for a 8600 and nearly every other beige PowerMac. The 5200 PCI doesn't boot in them because of it's lack of OldWorld OpenFirmware support.
 

tevion5

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The 9200 PCI is the best for a 8600 and nearly every other beige PowerMac. The 5200 PCI doesn't boot in them because of it's lack of OldWorld OpenFirmware support.
Damn, that's over $100 on amazon today!

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In the era, I modified Diamond Viper v550 PCI cards to work on MacOS:

http://www.cnet.com/graphics-cards/diamond-viper-v550-graphics/4505-8902_7-33715185.html

As well as GeForce 2 and 3 cards, which were much better than the v550. There's a bit on the GeForce cards here:

http://www.cybercoment.com/macgeforce.htm

These can be had in 16 and 32MB configurations for that era.
Hmm this looks interesting. I have a few old atx systems with agp and PCI slots. Boot one of these up in xp, would that be all the hardware I need? Assuming I get an old PC graphics card of course.
 

Hrududu

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Keep an eye out for the Radeon 9200. They will show up cheap if you keep your eyes peeled. I got one (Mac original, not flashed) on eBay last October for $27 shipped.
 

tdiaz

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I want to say the flashing is as simple as DOS, but XP will do, too. That's all you need.
 

Intell

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You generally cannot flash a card in Windows. A DOS startup disk made from Windows 98-XP would work best.
 

tevion5

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In the era, I modified Diamond Viper v550 PCI cards to work on MacOS:

http://www.cnet.com/graphics-cards/diamond-viper-v550-graphics/4505-8902_7-33715185.html

As well as GeForce 2 and 3 cards, which were much better than the v550. There's a bit on the GeForce cards here:

http://www.cybercoment.com/macgeforce.htm

These can be had in 16 and 32MB configurations for that era.
And those geforce cards will natively boot OS9 when flashed?

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The 9200 PCI is the best for a 8600 and nearly every other beige PowerMac. The 5200 PCI doesn't boot in them because of it's lack of OldWorld OpenFirmware support.
So you're saying this card will work natively with my stock 8600 under Mac OS9.2.2?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mac-Radeon-9200-128mb-AGP-Graphics-Video-Card-For-Apple-PowerMac-G4-G5-DVI-VGA-/251218834290?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3a7dcf3372&autorefresh=true
 

tevion5

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The 9200 PCI is the best for a 8600 and nearly every other beige PowerMac. The 5200 PCI doesn't boot in them because of it's lack of OldWorld OpenFirmware support.
Would this much cheaper option work in my 8600 and provide a noticeable difference?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/APPLE-POWER-MAC-630-2896-ATI-109-57400-00-RAGE-128-16MB-PCI-VGA-GRAPHICS-CARD-/400667169410?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item5d499fd282

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That's an APG card, you need a PCI 9200. Check one of tdiaz's links he posted to see which ones can be flashed and used with OS 9.
It is indeed! Looking at so many cards dammit...

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In the era, I modified Diamond Viper v550 PCI cards to work on MacOS:

http://www.cnet.com/graphics-cards/diamond-viper-v550-graphics/4505-8902_7-33715185.html

As well as GeForce 2 and 3 cards, which were much better than the v550. There's a bit on the GeForce cards here:

http://www.cybercoment.com/macgeforce.htm

These can be had in 16 and 32MB configurations for that era.
That second link seems like an amazing resource only for the fact that all the links in that site are broken :/
 

Intell

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The ATI Rage 128 would show a performance increase over the onboard video. It would still be a low performing card, but much better than the onboard. The second link of tdiaz's is sadly only good for resource. You can download ROMs from the Mac Elite wiki: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 Some cards you could look for are the ATI 7000, ATI Radeon Mac Edition (7200), ATI 9200, the Nvidia GeForce MX2, and GeForce 3. And remember, as stated above, don't get the GeForce 5200. CoreImage cards like that cannot boot in a OldWorld Mac.
 

tevion5

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The ATI Rage 128 would show a performance increase over the onboard video. It would still be a low performing card, but much better than the onboard. The second link of tdiaz's is sadly only good for resource. You can download ROMs from the Mac Elite wiki: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 Some cards you could look for are the ATI 7000, ATI Radeon Mac Edition (7200), ATI 9200, the Nvidia GeForce MX2, and GeForce 3. And remember, as stated above, don't get the GeForce 5200. CoreImage cards like that cannot boot in a OldWorld Mac.
Would this 7000 be worth the extra cost over the Rage 128?

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/281288587305?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 

Intell

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I'd say yes. The Rage is the slowest of the PCI cards. The 7000 is the second slowest, but still much faster than the Rage and way faster than the onboard. As a bonus, you get DVI and S-Video out. It'll also get you twice the VRAM at 32MB instead of 16MB and you'll get QuartzExtreme. I used to know this, but what CPU does your PM 8600 currently have in it?
 

tevion5

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I'd say yes. The Rage is the slowest of the PCI cards. The 7000 is the second slowest, but still much faster than the Rage and way faster than the onboard. As a bonus, you get DVI and S-Video out. It'll also get you twice the VRAM at 32MB instead of 16MB and you'll get QuartzExtreme. I used to know this, but what CPU does your PM 8600 currently have in it?
It's running the stock 250MHz processor it came with. No G3 or G4 in it currently. I would consider getting a G4 upgrade eventually. I don't think I'll ever put OSX on it though as it's primary function is to network with my 512Ke and write to 800K floppies. MAC OS9 is a great middle ground. USB, ethernet, firewire, FTP, Appletalk, TCP/IP etc all in one system.
 

danab

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Aug 20, 2016
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I own a 8600 running MacOS 9.2.2 quite nicely. I've it kitted out with extra ram, USB ports, firewire ports and it connects to my airport network and the Internet. It even hosts an FTP server with RUMPUS.

It's only draw back is it's measly 4MB graphics memory. (The previous owner upgraded it from 2 -> 4). The iTunes visualiser goes at about 2FPS :p

Any ideas? PCI cards I assume, but which ones work with a stock 8600?
[doublepost=1471707466][/doublepost]hey tevion....

i have an 8600....going to upgrade it to 9.2.2. Currently its running 8.5. what is the easiest and most cost effective way to get to 9.2.2 from 8.5???

i recall from early mac days that upgrades were a bit of a pain in the neck.

would like to try to avoid any disasters before they happen!!!

i want to preserve the contents of my drives of course otherwise i would just buy an install disk and wipe everything out.

thanks in advance for your help. i greatly appreciate it.

take care.

best wishes.

dana b.
 

tevion5

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[doublepost=1471707466][/doublepost]hey tevion....

i have an 8600....going to upgrade it to 9.2.2. Currently its running 8.5. what is the easiest and most cost effective way to get to 9.2.2 from 8.5???

i recall from early mac days that upgrades were a bit of a pain in the neck.

would like to try to avoid any disasters before they happen!!!

i want to preserve the contents of my drives of course otherwise i would just buy an install disk and wipe everything out.

thanks in advance for your help. i greatly appreciate it.

take care.

best wishes.

dana b.
Well the way things work in terms of upgrading classic OS versions is that only files within the system folder get replaced. It's not as complex as OS X with its diverse library arrangements.

Install 9.0, then 9.2, then 9.2.1 then 9.2.2. Images of all 4 CD's are readily available on a Macintosh garden.

Then just get a larger HDD, and a Radeon 9200 like me and you can even get Tiger running on it no problem ;).
 
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bunnspecial

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[doublepost=1471707466][/doublepost]hey tevion....

i have an 8600....going to upgrade it to 9.2.2. Currently its running 8.5. what is the easiest and most cost effective way to get to 9.2.2 from 8.5???

i recall from early mac days that upgrades were a bit of a pain in the neck.

would like to try to avoid any disasters before they happen!!!

i want to preserve the contents of my drives of course otherwise i would just buy an install disk and wipe everything out.

thanks in advance for your help. i greatly appreciate it.

take care.

best wishes.

dana b.
As Tevion says, it's a pretty straight forward process.

To do this legally, you need to get your hands on an OS 9 or 9.1 disk(nothing newer will work out of the box). There are other sources, but to be 100% clean and in the right you need the white/orange OS 9 disk. Just don't get a 9.2.1 disk, as it will leave you stuck.

Anything past OS 9 is a free update from Apple and is still available for download if you poke around on their site much. Otherwise, the updates are mirrored at Macintosh Garden. You will need to burn 9.1, 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 images to CDs(yes, you need all three). OS 9 comes in two English flavors-"North American" and "International." Functionally, they are no different, but you need to be consistent within your upgrades or you will be blocked from installing.

To install past OS 9.1, you need to use OS 9 helper, which is available free from this link

https://eshop.macsales.com/osxcenter/OS9Helper/Framework.cfm?topic=32

It's pretty self explanatory, although you do need to do the updates in their proper order.

As far as video goes-the onboard will continue to work. As discussed in this thread, the readily available Rage 128 will work nicely, as will a Radeon 7000 or original Radeon. The "King" is the 9200 if you can find one for a reasonable price.

As a caveat, however, the 9200 will not work in 9.2.1 unless the ATI drivers are installed. The computer will boot to the desktop, but you will find that you won't be able to do anything(i.e. clicking doesn't produce any response). This can be a catch-22, as the driver disk I have will only install on 9.2.2. Depending on the computer, I use either the on-board video or a lower end card to install the 9200 drivers. These drivers can be found with a bit of poking around on the web-ATI may still have them up.

One last thing-OS 9 is a fair bit more resource intensive than 8.x. I like to have a minimum of 300 and some MB of RAM as just the base system can spread itself out to 100mb without much effort. My 8600 has 1gb of RAM and my 9600 has 1.5gb, both of which are probably overkill for OS 9 but still can really boost programs like Photoshop. I have a G4 upgrade in my 8600 and run OS X on it, and the extra RAM really does show itself there. Even with the extra RAM in the 9600, OS X is still a pig with the factory processor :)
 
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tevion5

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My apologies! I totally forgot about the Helper being required for 9.2.1. and 9.2.2. However, as Bunn said (as well as everything else), it is a very straightforward process. Good luck!