What is Tile thinking (Tile response)

[minnemike]

That will be a very bad idea. First off I couldn't see Apple buying said chips so there goes one major customers. I even don't want anything I'll buy to have those chips that will invade my privacy and send my location data to Tile.
Having Tile ecosystem on a chip is not a selling point. It's the opposite as far as I concern

I would assume the tracking tech would be the same as Apple's where it relays location of said Tile but you arent identified and are encrypted the entire way. It's a mesh network system. I think that is obvious or what you said would be the case and it wouldnt be allowed or adopted.

 

[matrix07]

I would assume the tracking tech would be the same as Apple's where it relays location of said Tile but you arent identified and are encrypted the entire way. It's a mesh network system. I think that is obvious or what you said would be the case and it wouldnt be allowed or adopted.

Umm.. no.

To quote Tile

To help ensure you can find items when they are lost, the Tile app will collect location data even when the app is closed or not in use. Tile won’t sell this data or use it for advertising purposes.

Tile privacy policy is: there is none.

 

[minnemike]

Umm.. no.

To quote Tile

Tile privacy policy is: there is none.

THat's because it relies on their software - Tile users at the moment are giving away that data and trusting them.... we are talking a fundamental change being part of a bluetooth chip in all phones including non-Tile users... but like I said, I doubt many would want to have that data out there as a non-tile user so it wouldnt fly if it didnt have complete anonymity

 

[Shanghaichica]

How is Tile dead when AirTags only work on iPhones/Apple devices and Galaxy Tags only work on the most recent Galaxy devices?

so all the Huawei/Xiaomi/LG/Oppo/Motorola/Pixel/etc. just don’t get to track stuff anymore?

Tile will get less iOS customers but to say they’re going to go under because of this is honestly just a demonstration that you don’t really know much about this sector of products.

Do the galaxy tags only work with samsung devices? I’ve haven’t gotten round to looking at them yet. I thought they would work with any android phone and you could download that smart things app?

 

[SaguaroSeven]

Tile is like most any tech-related company: they have a business model, got investors based on that model, and see the world based on how they can make money. They criticize Apple based what's good for them, not what's good for you or me. That doesn't mean their criticism is wrong, you just need to think about their motivations.

I gave up on Tile long ago because (1) I didn't like Tile's privacy policy and an approach to security (sounds like it's not any better now), (2) I didn't want to expose my location to yet another company, and (3) i didn't like the idea that someone finding my keys or who hacked my account (via Tile or me) could set off a sound on my iPhone. Sure, Apple and my cell carrier know where I am, but if Tile does too, they are another potential exposure. Tile did not seem to appreciate the significance of the data they collect and keep.

Basically, I trust Apple more than most other tech companies because of how they make money (by selling you things and services), and their approach to privacy & security (based on what they say and do).

 

[matrix07]

THat's because it relies on their software - Tile users at the moment are giving away that data and trusting them.... we are talking a fundamental change being part of a bluetooth chip in all phones including non-Tile users... but like I said, I doubt many would want to have that data out there as a non-tile user so it wouldnt fly if it didnt have complete anonymity

I doubt many are even interested. Sounds like a bad idea to me.

 

[KeithJenner]

I have some sympathy for Tile. The product is something that lots of people want, and they have become the market leader (I believe that is the case anyway) and now that market is being disrupted by Apple and others, in the same way that other markets have been.

However, as a potential customer, I think that this is a market which needed disrupting. I have been interested in tile for a few years, specifically for tracking luggage when travelling. I have purchased a grand total of zero tile products. I have just never had the confidence that the network is good enough to track my bags if they did go missing.

There are only a few companies who have the network to really offer the product that works as we want it to. In order for myself and many others to buy a tag it needs the apple network to support it. Tile hasn't lost me as a customer, and a large proportion (my guess the majority) of airtag purchasers would never have bought a tile. However as is showied by this thread there are a significant number of current tile customers who are planning on moving.

I suspect that tile will survive, as have many businesses in other areas that apple have moved into, but this will undoubtedly have a big negative impact on their business.

 

[canyonblue737]

I will say that unlike Blackberry, Tile saw the writing on the wall a mile away. There just isn’t anything else they can do about it. Hence the lawsuit as a last ditch attempt to stay relevant.

i'm not saying it is viable but there are potentially things they could do... first they HAVE to join the find my network, without it everything else is doomed. then once they join it they need to offer many more form factors than apple does for the tracker and then they need to undercut the price. both are super difficult, maybe impossible but they are good as dead long term if they just sit there crying foul with more expensive trackers working with a soon to be shrinking network of 20-30 million (and that is likely high already) vs. a billion find my devices and growing.

 

[Lemon Olive]

I have some sympathy for Tile. The product is something that lots of people want, and they have become the market leader (I believe that is the case anyway) and now that market is being disrupted by Apple and others, in the same way that other markets have been.

However, as a potential customer, I think that this is a market which needed disrupting. I have been interested in tile for a few years, specifically for tracking luggage when travelling. I have purchased a grand total of zero tile products. I have just never had the confidence that the network is good enough to track my bags if they did go missing.

There are only a few companies who have the network to really offer the product that works as we want it to. In order for myself and many others to buy a tag it needs the apple network to support it. Tile hasn't lost me as a customer, and a large proportion (my guess the majority) of airtag purchasers would never have bought a tile. However as is showied by this thread there are a significant number of current tile customers who are planning on moving.

I suspect that tile will survive, as have many businesses in other areas that apple have moved into, but this will undoubtedly have a big negative impact on their business.

It is being disrupted by Apple by:
- Implementing a network that is driven entirely by forced opt-in anonymous bluetooth tracking that no other company can replicate and Apple won't allow you to charge for.
- Releasing their own dirt cheap tracker that use a proprietary chip in the tracker and the iPhone that no one else is allowed to use.

Tile has a right to be upset with Apple and Apple did themselves no favors releasing this now while the anti-trust magnifying glass is on them.

It is one thing for a better product to come along and push Tile out. It is another thing for a company like Apple to abuse its competitive advantage to push Tile out.

 

[Marshall73]

Nothing stopping Tile from releasing a product that is compatible with their own network, iOS and Samsung. Maybe it’s an opportunity to bridge these ecosystems?

 

[AnthroMatt]

I am not sure whether Tile is going to go the way of the Dodo or not, but I do know that my tile is going bye-bye once my airtags arrive. I need one for my keys and one for my laptop bag. I have a credit card sized tile that I bought to use in my wallet, but it's about as thick as 2.5 cards and it just makes my wallet feel like a Costanza edition wallet. So great in theory, but not practical for me.

I've also never paid for anything extra from tile. Not sure if that makes me the normal user or an outlier, but it sure makes the decision to ditch the tiles a lot easier.

 

[macOS Lynx]

Do the galaxy tags only work with samsung devices? I’ve haven’t gotten round to looking at them yet. I thought they would work with any android phone and you could download that smart things app?

They only work with Samsung phones running Android 8.0 or higher and with 2GB or more of RAM.

 

[macOS Lynx]

Nothing stopping Tile from releasing a product that is compatible with their own network, iOS and Samsung. Maybe it’s an opportunity to bridge these ecosystems?

You can’t make a device that works with both Find My and your own app. The tracker Chipolo makes isn’t compatible with any of their own software or services, because Apple won’t allow that. For Tile to use the Find My network, they would have to make a new lineup, which could only be compatible with Find My.

 

[Shanghaichica]

They only work with Samsung phones running Android 8.0 or higher and with 2GB or more of RAM.

Thank you.

 

[minnemike]

It is being disrupted by Apple by:
- Implementing a network that is driven entirely by forced opt-in anonymous bluetooth tracking that no other company can replicate and Apple won't allow you to charge for.
- Releasing their own dirt cheap tracker that use a proprietary chip in the tracker and the iPhone that no one else is allowed to use.

Tile has a right to be upset with Apple and Apple did themselves no favors releasing this now while the anti-trust magnifying glass is on them.

It is one thing for a better product to come along and push Tile out. It is another thing for a company like Apple to abuse its competitive advantage to push Tile out.

All good points.... but I mentioned previously in this thread that they are in fact trying to break into the same space as Apple by going directly to bluetooth chip manufacturers to integrate a similar 'forced opt-in anonymous' bluetooth mesh network to replace their software based platform. Sort of an arms race now I guess. Adn I'm sure Google will have a say in this very shortly. If anyone develops a similar thing over Android, then it will immediately be the industry leader with coverage.

 

[Lemon Olive]

All good points.... but I mentioned previously in this thread that they are in fact trying to break into the same space as Apple by going directly to bluetooth chip manufacturers to integrate a similar 'forced opt-in anonymous' bluetooth mesh network to replace their software based platform. Sort of an arms race now I guess. Adn I'm sure Google will have a say in this very shortly. If anyone develops a similar thing over Android, then it will immediately be the industry leader with coverage.

And of course it would be better for everyone is there was a standard.

 

[minnemike]

And of course it would be better for everyone is there was a standard.

I would hope that's the case if all bluetooth manufacturers include the tech and open source it. Then it might make it even easier for Apple to not have to custom bake it into their hardware and can use the standard bluetooth functions

 

[Polly Mercocet]

MKBHD just made a video about exactly this:

 

[Apleeseed84]

The main reason they're not joining the Find My network is because Apple's rules dictate you cannot be part of Find My and run your own independent app at the same time.

So for Tile the choice to join Find My would mean giving up their own network on all iOS devices.

Obviously this harms their own ecosystem and ultimately supports a competing one, so the decision makes logical sense.

I suspect if Apple was not so strict and allowed them to both run their own app and join Find My, things would be different, but that's not what Apple decided to do.

This will also impact the future of trackers. Joining Find My means being exclusive to it on iOS. Google will likely create a competing service companies could join for the Android side. But as Apple and Google are competitors and will likely take different approaches (I highly doubt Google's solution will be so privacy friendly) the question then arises, will these companies be able to merge data between the two platforms or will they have to pick a side? Or sell one set of products for iOS and one for Android?

An Android network that works along the lines of Apple's would have way more devices by sheer volume as well, so if companies do have to pick one or the other, the obvious incentive would be pick Google's then provide an iOS app that simply allows access to tracking data from Google's network for iPhone users.

Would be much easier if there was an open protocol used on iOS and Android but that's not the world we live in.

I get this an Apple forum but people tend to forget that Apple also makes money on it’s business side, Tile was on its short end of stick of it and I am 100% sure that Apple wants money from tile to use their ui on their FindMy app. They just don’t want anyone else making money hence why Tile added this to their pleas on their antitrust readings lolol It’s literally the same reason they won’t ever switch to USB c because they made money off it’s proprietary lightning usage.

It’s shocking how strict they have gotten but to be honest at least tile guarantees you upto a $1000 reward if your item is missing while Apple has yet to come up with anything other than guaranteeing it will be found and for some that’s enough

 

[Polly Mercocet]

I get this an Apple forum but people tend to forget that Apple also makes money on it’s business side, Tile was on its short end of stick of it and I am 100% sure that Apple wants money from tile to use their ui on their FindMy app. They just don’t want anyone else making money hence why Tile added this to their pleas on their antitrust readings lolol It’s literally the same reason they won’t ever switch to USB c because they made money off it’s proprietary lightning usage.

It’s shocking how strict they have gotten but to be honest at least tile guarantees you upto a $1000 reward if your item is missing while Apple has yet to come up with anything other than guaranteeing it will be found and for some that’s enough

Of course Apple exists to make money. So does Tile and every single other for-profit business. Not sure what point you're making there. And yeah Apple loves to use ecosystem lock-in, which seems to be your other point. There's an MKBHD video I just posted above all about how they do it, using AirTags as the latest example.

Regarding USB-C they do use it in MacBooks and iPads. I have a MacBook Air and iPad Pro both with USB-C. It is a shame they won't move over on the iPhone but I think that's because they're planning to go portless in a few years so it wouldn't make sense to kill off the whole ecosystem of Lightening accessories to switch to USB-C only to kill that off too when the portless iPhone comes out a few years later.

Finally as for AirTags vs Tile, I mean I have no real dog in this fight other than pointing out there is a logical business reason for Tile to want to stick to their own network rather than helping build out the network of their main competitor. I didn't know Tile existed until people began talking about it after AirTags, ironically. But I'd argue you probably are more likely to find your item with AirTags simply because they have a much much bigger network.

 

[Wackery]

Swiggity swooty, Apple is coming for Tile’s booty

 

[cp1160]

I ordered AirTags. My Tile experiences have been less than stellar. Have 4 regular Tile (replaceable battery version) and 1 Tile Pro. So far 3 lost items and no ability to have Tile application find them. All sets of keys. Two have been found. 1 a year later under a chair at a house where my son visited. We swept the house with 2 phones and 2 iPads running Tile App. Nothing. The family uses Tile and has there phones looking too. Nothing. Year later my son goes there, picks up the chair and the keys and Tile fell to ground. Battery still good (barely) and could set off the ringer. But could never be found. Another set got packed into college gear. In boxes in garage. Swept over every box and nothing. Again used 4 devices to search. Unpacked a box later and there they were....right on top. Cardboard blocked it?

Another set never found.

Useless for us. Integration with Apple could help but overall I find the devices far less useful than advertised. I tested my leaving keys in outside lock and had kids search. Even with the phone 4 inches away on other side of door. Nothing.

Maybe all y'all have better luck than I do with them.

....and yes my family seems to have issues with keys. Hence why I bought Tiles.

 

[dvdvd]

I'm still sour about Tile's customer service when I placed an order for five of their older discounted models by like 50% and they cancelled my order to offer me a 10% off coupon for one newer Tile instead lol. Glad I avoided their inferior product for the AirTags

 

[anticipate]

I'm a long-time Tile user who is jumping ship. I like my Tiles, but they do leave a fair amount to be desired. They have made a couple of significant improvements-- replaceable batteries and a louder speaker, at least in their "pro" version. But the biggest issue is simply that they aren't as reliable as I want them to be. If I need to find something, it is hit or miss whether it will function properly to play a sound at the exact moment I need it to. The Tile will have been in contact with my item recently enough for me to know it is somewhere in my house, but I have had a lot of frustrating experiences with needing to find something NOW and Tile not having the responsiveness I need.

I think/expect that with the precision tracking, AirTags will be a significant improvement in the one area where Tile is lacking in my eyes.

Same here. Same experiences.

The precision finding is a BIG deal with small items like keys. And Tile's network isn't really that great. They maybe have one user per block (via MKBHD) in a busy city, vs tens of apple devices in a similar block. iOS may not have the majority of phones in the US, but if you count all of them together running the FindMY network, they are FAR more dense of a network than Tile.

Note: AirTags initial link needs Bluetooth. So in a large house, it may be hit or miss until you get in the same room; it takes about 20-30 seconds to switch precision finding on once you're close. But that's where it blows away Tile.

 

[Steve686]

Doesn't these 2 sentences contradict each others?

No.

It means they want to PROVIDE the service, not JOIN another service.