Eh, when I buy a house, I don't just look at the square footage.
Not that I buy houses that often.
Not that I buy houses that often.
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What is up with all the PC people whining about how expensive Macbook Pro's are??
- Thread starter DoNoHarm
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Really
Vista PC=MBP?
I had been a pc since win 3.0 and loved it. Vista was the final straw for me (not even going into the bugs and viruses, etc., etc.). I tried to love Vista, but it was a stinker, and soured me on MSFT.
If you prefer MSFT that is fine. I just can't agree that Vista PC compares on any level, just not credible.
sek
Vista PC=MBP?
I had been a pc since win 3.0 and loved it. Vista was the final straw for me (not even going into the bugs and viruses, etc., etc.). I tried to love Vista, but it was a stinker, and soured me on MSFT.
If you prefer MSFT that is fine. I just can't agree that Vista PC compares on any level, just not credible.
sek
I had PC's for 15 years. And I liked following hardware, benchmarks etc. I just got fed up with windows, permissions, drivers, poor battery times, bulkiness, bad keyboards with flex, crappy touchpads, poor screens, having to format a brand new laptop because of the preinstalled crap, defragmentation, antivirus, registry, updates every other day...
When I looked at a new laptop all the thinkpads and HP Elitebooks that I consider worthy machines were more expensive than my entry level mac packing similar features (except for RAM and HDD). I think that it is unacceptable to offer a computer with 2GB of RAM and 160GB of HDD in 2009 and that's my only complain with apple pricing. I have used my newest mac without a restart from November 5th and it still performs just like the day I got it. I close the lid, put it in my backpack, go home and in 3 seconds I can open it, check my email... You simply can't do that with a PC laptop.
It took about a month to get used to OSX. I really miss MSN, Office 2007 and windows media player with the Klite codec pack. If you ask me, every day I have to work with a computer with XP or Win7 now it's a pain in the ass. OS X just makes sense. Even if you have had the computer for 10 minutes, everything is where you expect to find it.
Win 7 is a great product. None makes laptops that look and feel like a mac though. And when they do they price them an arm, a leg and some more.
I wish pc manufacturers would take some design/integration hints from apple. Then I wish apple would offer similar warranties and a bit more competitive hardware in the base versions.
When I looked at a new laptop all the thinkpads and HP Elitebooks that I consider worthy machines were more expensive than my entry level mac packing similar features (except for RAM and HDD). I think that it is unacceptable to offer a computer with 2GB of RAM and 160GB of HDD in 2009 and that's my only complain with apple pricing. I have used my newest mac without a restart from November 5th and it still performs just like the day I got it. I close the lid, put it in my backpack, go home and in 3 seconds I can open it, check my email... You simply can't do that with a PC laptop.
It took about a month to get used to OSX. I really miss MSN, Office 2007 and windows media player with the Klite codec pack. If you ask me, every day I have to work with a computer with XP or Win7 now it's a pain in the ass. OS X just makes sense. Even if you have had the computer for 10 minutes, everything is where you expect to find it.
Win 7 is a great product. None makes laptops that look and feel like a mac though. And when they do they price them an arm, a leg and some more.
I wish pc manufacturers would take some design/integration hints from apple. Then I wish apple would offer similar warranties and a bit more competitive hardware in the base versions.
This is what I found as well. I was really looking for a durable windows laptop in the 12" - 14" range, when I decided on a Macbook Pro 13. I looked at Dell Latitudes and Studio XPS laptops, and the Latitudes in the 12"-13" range were higher in price than a base Macbook Pro. The Studio XPS just was not very appealing (aesthetically) at the same price range. The e6400 did keep me interested in the Dells though with a price about $100-$200 less than a Macbook Pro. I also considered the Thinkpad X200 series and T400 series. The X200 and X200s seem to be great machines, but a small 12" display notorious for its poor quality lacked appeal. The X200 was roughly $100-$200 less than a Macbook Pro, and the X200s was similar priced to the Macbook Pro. Then there was the T400, very similar specified machine to the Macbook Pro with a non intel based video card, but again the T400 was known to use notoriously poor quality screens. I did have an opportunity to demo a T400 and X301 in comparison to the Macbook Pro, and while the Thinkpad displays were in my opinion not notoriously bad, these displays were not even close to comparable to the Macbook Pro. The T400 also was priced about $100-$200 less than a Macbook Pro. Thinkpads are also notoriously rugged though, and the X200/X200s weighed over a pound less than the Macbook Pro. While the T400 did weigh close to a pound more, the T400's display was also an inch larger.
So my decision came down to:
Thinkpad T400 with discrete graphics roughly $900-$1000
Dell E6400 with discrete graphics roughly $900-$1000
Thinkpad X200s with intel graphics roughly $1000-$1100
Thinkpad X200 with intel graphics roughly $900-$1000
OR
Macbook Pro 13 with student discount $1100
While the Macbook Pro is finely engineered with a billet aluminum body, sexy slot load DVD drive, and the best display short of a Thinkpad Tablet, the 1GB x 2 memory was a set back, and the high end Macbook Pro 13 was in my opinion not worth extra $300 for 2GB of memory and a slight increase in processor speed (Harddrive space is largely irrelevant in a laptop). I finally broke down and decided though on the Macbook Pro after learning about the free iPod touch promotion. The Macbook Pro while a couple hundred more than the comparable windows laptops was build better (while maybe not quite as rugged) and used higher quality parts. This and a free iPod made the decision easy.
I did consider for a moment the high end model Macbook Pro 13 and base model Macbook Pro 15, but these were priced much higher than the comparable business orientated windows laptops. For myself at the time of purchase, OSX had absolutely no influence. I purchased based on quality of hardware and price (was also influenced by free iPod). Furthermore while I have grown to really like OSX, I still really like Windows XP Pro.
Also for clarity, I receive all Windows operating systems free from my MSDNAA program at my university, so paying for Vista downgrades to XP were unnecessary, and I had little worry if I did not like OSX about installing Windows XP on the Macbook Pro. Furthermore, all comparisons were done using sale prices for both the Thinkpads and Dells and student prices for the Apple and using the most comparable configurations which encompassed a build consisting of carbon composites or alloys, an Intel 25W Core2Duo processor, a LED backlit high resolution display, a backlit keyboard, discrete graphics, and Intel wireless N and bluetooth built in.
I spent probably 7 months looking for a windows laptop, and once the Macbook Pro entered consideration, I owned a new laptop within one month (beginning of Sept '09).
If anyone intends to compare a Macbook Pro to any Windows laptop, the comparison should be impartial. While I have little to comment on the Macbook, the Macbook Pro is a comparable laptop to the business orientated machines from Dell (Latitudes), Lenovo (Thinkpads), and HP (Elites), and comparisons between a similar specified Acer, HP home office laptop, Lenovo IdeaPad or Dell Inspiron to a Macbook Pro are just a joke.
Oh man the fanboys come out in force when ever the apple-tax argument rears its ugly head. Yes, the MBP is a wonderfully engineered product out of a solid piece of aluminum, and yes R&D costs money. The fact remains you can buy a comparable laptop from DELL or HP that has similar specs and save yourself something like 600 - 700 bucks. And it is quite comparable to other laptops. I don't care that it was carved out of a solid block of metal, or the keyboard glows. I care that the machine works as I expect it too. The insides that matter most for me. Besides those other laptops that are not made out of a solid piece of metal don't seem to have the problem of the case being bent or malformed. There's enough threads around here about how easily the MBP dents - so much for being carved out of a solid block eh.
I configured both a Dell and HP that had 95% of the same components and in both cases they were significantly cheaper and I disagree that I need to upgrade to a higher version of win7 to be truly comparable. What features does the upgraded version have over the delivered version of win7 that's also in osx?
You cannot connect to a Windows domain with any version lower than Windows 7 (or XP/Vista) Business. Home versions don't support domains. So if you use the system for work, you need the higher versions.
Same as no Exchange connectivity in the Home/Student Version of Office for Mac 2008.
Cheers,
Does Apple have a patent on good trackpad design? Every PC laptop I look at has the exact same tiny, recessed, 2-3 button trackpad that has been used since the 90s. The only change is that annoying sidebar scroll strip that you hit by accident all the time. A far cry from the multitouch goodness of the Apple trackapds.
I think it's also silly that PC manufacturers keep hanging on to the VGA connector and possible coupling that with HDMI. Carrying an adapter for those and being able to connect the mini-DisplayPort in my MBP to my 30" 2560x1600 res display is a small price to pay for that.
We recently got a HP Elitebook for one of our employees and seriously, it's nowhere even close to my Macbook Pro in usability. It's not a bad machine by any means but it is a bit ugly, thick and things like the volume control touch strip just aren't intuitive and don't work well.
I think it's also silly that PC manufacturers keep hanging on to the VGA connector and possible coupling that with HDMI. Carrying an adapter for those and being able to connect the mini-DisplayPort in my MBP to my 30" 2560x1600 res display is a small price to pay for that.
We recently got a HP Elitebook for one of our employees and seriously, it's nowhere even close to my Macbook Pro in usability. It's not a bad machine by any means but it is a bit ugly, thick and things like the volume control touch strip just aren't intuitive and don't work well.
if you want to compare machines and prices, do it with a brand new model.
Apple does NOT price their machines like other computer makers. They do not continuously update pricing based on the current market. If your comparing an Apple laptop released 9 months ago, then your looking at 9 month old pricing data, as they do not modify their price over time. Yes you get a much worse deal at the time buying a Mac when its near the end of its sale period than at the beginning.
People have such short memories. When the 13" Macbook Pro came out, tons of "PC" users were saying how wonderful it was and how the price was awesome.... 6 months later they started complaining how it was so overpriced...
if you want the best deal.. bang for the buck.. or sometimes cheaper than comparable "PCs" then buy a new Mac as soon as a new model is released.
Apple does NOT price their machines like other computer makers. They do not continuously update pricing based on the current market. If your comparing an Apple laptop released 9 months ago, then your looking at 9 month old pricing data, as they do not modify their price over time. Yes you get a much worse deal at the time buying a Mac when its near the end of its sale period than at the beginning.
People have such short memories. When the 13" Macbook Pro came out, tons of "PC" users were saying how wonderful it was and how the price was awesome.... 6 months later they started complaining how it was so overpriced...
if you want the best deal.. bang for the buck.. or sometimes cheaper than comparable "PCs" then buy a new Mac as soon as a new model is released.
illegally
I have OSX in a virtual machine thats not legal as well... but there are always weird little issues running it on unsupported hardware. It mostly works.. and works great if you design a desktop yourself and build it with parts you know have good OSX drivers... but just throwing it on any machine can be a headache.
It seems silly to me that some Mac users feel the need to justify their purchases. It's your choice. Who cares what someone else thinks?
Buy a Mac. Use it. Enjoy it. Move on.
Buy a Mac. Use it. Enjoy it. Move on.
i don't feel the need to justify my purchases, but i have done pricing comparisons for macbook pros and mac pros vs dell/hp/etc for my customers...
bottom line, the apple products aren't really overpriced and, in some cases, are a bargain compared to the competition.
Don't forget about all of those pretty little stickers that come with most Windows laptops that won't come off without leaving a very sticky mess. That must be a major selling point for a lot of PC folks.
The reason I bought a Mac was for OSX, it was a bonus that the OS and the rest of the hardware is easy to use and beautiful to look at.
The reason I bought a Mac was for OSX, it was a bonus that the OS and the rest of the hardware is easy to use and beautiful to look at.
I got the same sort of feeling after reading this thread.
I buy macs and I enjoy them, but I also realize I'm paying more then if I went with a dell or HP (or lenovo) Of course I also have a better OS and I'm content with what I get. I don't delude myself saying other laptops are just as expensive however
Um, they are expensive. That doesn't address whether or not they represent good value; but they are expensive. Fact is, there are quite a few users who don't need what a Mac offers. There are many users for whom a $500 HP from Best Buy is perfect. It is just as wrong to castigate them for buying to fit their needs as it is for them to castigate you for buying to fit your needs. As someone said, these are tools. If you compare point for point, feature for feature, IMO Macs represent a bargain... unless you don't need all the features. If a $500 PC fits your needs, the fact that a Mac does so much more doesn't mean a whole lot. In fact, all it means is that is is expensive.
As far as Mac vs PC, flip a coin. There are things that I love about my Mac; there are things that I miss about PCs. And don't kid yourself, Apple is just a smaller Microsoft. Like someone said about cats; if they were big enough, they would eat you.
As far as Mac vs PC, flip a coin. There are things that I love about my Mac; there are things that I miss about PCs. And don't kid yourself, Apple is just a smaller Microsoft. Like someone said about cats; if they were big enough, they would eat you.
I no longer feel the need to justify. With only minor issues, I'm very happy with my 2006 MBP and I look forward to my next purchase, which needs to have a Core i5 minimally. I don't like to buy new a computer unless the increase is somewhat substantial.
1GHz G4 to 2.33GHz Core 2 was a nice jump. From everything I've read, the Core i5/i7 is another nice jump.
1GHz G4 to 2.33GHz Core 2 was a nice jump. From everything I've read, the Core i5/i7 is another nice jump.
You just made an indirect insult at yourself by comparing buying a Macbook Pro to shopping at a higher end clothing store. Did you buy it because it looks nice in public and not because of its actual utility?
I think the best feature of OS X is lack of activation keys. I reinstalled XP on a iMac a few times - one time after Apple replaced a hard drive, second time using VMware Fusion. Third time on mbp (after removing it from iMac). Activation doesn't work anymore. And XP is retail copy, not some OEM version. You can say, well why the hell I reinstall it that many times. Who cares. The most important thing is that legally bought product fails to work. Now I am just running trough VMware Fusion. As long as I don't restart XP it works fine. But eventually XP will be not supported. And I will be left on ice...
Oh man the fanboys come out in force when ever the apple-tax argument rears its ugly head. Yes, the MBP is a wonderfully engineered product out of a solid piece of aluminum, and yes R&D costs money. The fact remains you can buy a comparable laptop from DELL or HP that has similar specs and save yourself something like 600 - 700 bucks. And it is quite comparable to other laptops. I don't care that it was carved out of a solid block of metal, or the keyboard glows. I care that the machine works as I expect it too. The insides that matter most for me. Besides those other laptops that are not made out of a solid piece of metal don't seem to have the problem of the case being bent or malformed. There's enough threads around here about how easily the MBP dents - so much for being carved out of a solid block eh.
I configured both a Dell and HP that had 95% of the same components and in both cases they were significantly cheaper and I disagree that I need to upgrade to a higher version of win7 to be truly comparable. What features does the upgraded version have over the delivered version of win7 that's also in osx?
So is the apple tax equivalent to business orientated Windows laptop tax? Cause I found when comparing a MBP to a Windows business orientated laptop, the prices were very similar. You can choose to ignore my post above, but the fact is a spent quite a bit of time looking and choose an apple computer something I had never done before.
Furthermore, you only want to compare junk consumer Windows laptops to Macbook Pros. This comparison is not equal. If you are going to compare a Macbook Pro to a Windows laptop, build quality and rigidity should be considered. This does matter unless you plan to just use it as a desktop replacement.
I thought we were sharing our opinions and stories? Why is that bothering you? Personally I still find it interesting how after looking for so long, that I ended up with a MBP.
Precisely why Apple's laptops are so epically awesome. For desktops, seemingly insignificant things such as instant wake-up from sleep even after 12-48 hours of longer is not a big deal, but when you are using a laptop, you want it to work instantly. Even Windows 7 cannot wake up immediately from sleep after a certain number of hours in hibernation or sleep.
And then there is Expose, which has now, for me, become integral to my computing. I cannot use a small screen (or even a large 1080p one) without Expose hot corners; I just cannot.
Also, some of us do not realize just how AWESOME Apple's trackpad and its size/multi-gestures are until we use a Dell, HP, etc.
Um, no, they can't, not properly or quickly anyway. Have a look at Hacktinosh sites and see just how "fun" the process is for getting SL to work on your Acer.
You are wrong, like usual. Comparable HP Elite or Dell XPS/Latitude models are the same price (or even higher) than the 13" MBP and, to a lesser extent, the entry 15" MBP. If you're dense enough to compare dirt-cheap $500 HPs to a MacBook, then you fit right in with 99% of the ignorant masses who cry that this Vaio or this MacBook or this Rolex is "overpriced!"
Well said. Few are claiming that Macs are not expensive, but the problem with many of these "overpriced" philippics is that they are ALWAYS from ignoramuses who misunderstand the market, who lack decent logical skills, and who cannot see the other side's point of view. Of course there are $1000 laptops out there that have mostly similar specs to a $1600 MBP, but the latter is substantially better built and has LUXURY features, which are missing on the far cheaper solution.
When people are reasonable and compare "apples to apples," so to speak, looking at premium laptops from HP, Sony, Dell, etc. and stack them against the MBP, generally (at least with the 13" and lower-end 15"), Apple is priced accordingly, even with its far superior OS, which alone should command more money.
Hello nefan65,
I will tell you from first hand experience, all of my systems have been converted to Windows 7. I am not just saying it to say because I am affiliated with Microsoft. I can truly stand behind this product and tell you straight away it works very reliably, fast and extremely stable. The 64bit version is a real powerhouse as well.
Anyways, what to say about Windows 7?
Let's check out the features!
NEW FEATURES:
There are several new features that are available with Windows 7 that will assist you with deployment and management of a large number of workstations. Enterprise IT infrastructures are increasingly complex to manage. The Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) is a dynamic desktop solution that is available as a subscription for Software Assurance customers. The solution suite enhances application deployment and compatibility, increases IT responsiveness and end user uptime, and helps reduce total cost of ownership (TCO) of your desktop software and IT management. To learn more about this package, please go here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/enterprise/products/mdop/default.aspx
Also now available is MDT 2010 (Microsoft Deployment Tool) which will help you create images and automate the OS and application installations, data migration, and desktop configuration process. To learn more, please go here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd744519(WS.10).aspx
Microsoft does have an official Windows 7 Support Forum specifically for IT Pros located here http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/category/w7itpro/ . It is supported by product specialists as well as engineers and support teams. You may want to also check the threads available there for additional assistance and feedback.
Also, if you would like to read what other users have said about their positive experience with Windows 7, you may want to check out the following sites: http://www.winsupersite.com/ and http://www.edbott.com/weblog/
John M
Microsoft Windows Client Team
I will tell you from first hand experience, all of my systems have been converted to Windows 7. I am not just saying it to say because I am affiliated with Microsoft. I can truly stand behind this product and tell you straight away it works very reliably, fast and extremely stable. The 64bit version is a real powerhouse as well.
Anyways, what to say about Windows 7?
Let's check out the features!
NEW FEATURES:
There are several new features that are available with Windows 7 that will assist you with deployment and management of a large number of workstations. Enterprise IT infrastructures are increasingly complex to manage. The Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP) is a dynamic desktop solution that is available as a subscription for Software Assurance customers. The solution suite enhances application deployment and compatibility, increases IT responsiveness and end user uptime, and helps reduce total cost of ownership (TCO) of your desktop software and IT management. To learn more about this package, please go here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/enterprise/products/mdop/default.aspx
Also now available is MDT 2010 (Microsoft Deployment Tool) which will help you create images and automate the OS and application installations, data migration, and desktop configuration process. To learn more, please go here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd744519(WS.10).aspx
Microsoft does have an official Windows 7 Support Forum specifically for IT Pros located here http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/category/w7itpro/ . It is supported by product specialists as well as engineers and support teams. You may want to also check the threads available there for additional assistance and feedback.
Also, if you would like to read what other users have said about their positive experience with Windows 7, you may want to check out the following sites: http://www.winsupersite.com/ and http://www.edbott.com/weblog/
John M
Microsoft Windows Client Team