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The GPS doesn't have to use any battery if it's not in active use. My Garmin watch goes about 10 hours during an activity that uses the GPS constantly, and I've seen it go as long as 2 weeks when I'm not using it at all.
The Garmin is not as interactive with the phone as the Apple Watch. More geared to sports with some phone benefits. The two crossover a bit but are very different focus. Therefore very hard to compare them as one is an Apple the other Orange, both fruit but not easy to compare.;) To my point, Apple needs a sports focused watch.
 
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The Garmin is not as interactive with the phone as the Apple Watch. More geared to sports with some phone benefits. The two crossover a bit but are very different focus. Therefore very hard to compare them as one is an Apple the other Orange, both fruit but not ease to compare.;)

I know. I own both. The point is the GPS is only a power drain when in active use.
 
The GPS uses a good deal of battery. The average user for Apple may not like the trade off. What Apple needs to do is have a Sports watch, current one more of an urban watch. The sports watch would have all the sensors, more waterproof, tougher casing, and software to support running and other sports activities. The current sports watch needs a new name.

Exactly ... I agree 100%.

Calling the existing model .. the Apple Watch Sport .. just because it has different materials is silly.
 
What kind of other possible health sensors could the newer Apple Watch 2 have?
This is a great question. The current sensor is supposedly able to read blood oxygen level, so maybe they will turn that on with AW2. On the flip side, Tim Cook said that Apple does not want to put the AW through an FDA regulation process, so that could limit future health sensors and health features.

What's left that is possible? I do not think that there are viable technologies today for blood pressure, glucose, etc. Maybe we will get temperature, but is there a wrist-wearable core temperature technology now?

Is there health value in knowing galvanic skin response or impedance?
 
This is a great question. The current sensor is supposedly able to read blood oxygen level, so maybe they will turn that on with AW2. On the flip side, Tim Cook said that Apple does not want to put the AW through an FDA regulation process, so that could limit future health sensors and health features.

What's left that is possible? I do not think that there are viable technologies today for blood pressure, glucose, etc. Maybe we will get temperature, but is there a wrist-wearable core temperature technology now?

Is there health value in knowing galvanic skin response or impedance?
You've hit on what I'm interested in as a current owner: what can they do with a software upgrade to the current sensor-suite? I'm hoping we current owners get thrown some sort of bone with WatchOS 3.
 
While too early to tell we do know Apple has a history of adding a lot of features to the 2 gen product.

Agreed and I am sure Apple will try to please but unless they are willing to go though FDA approval I still do not see a lot of new sensors. I am quite anxious to see what they do and would buy the AW2 if improve the HR sensor and Fitness software. It is good but my $150 Charge HR is still winning the place on my wrist for now. Tried going back to the AW for a week but missed the Fitbit.
 
While too early to tell we do know Apple has a history of adding a lot of features to the 2 gen product.

myth.

iphone 3g added... 3g and gps to the iphone. i wouldn't say that was a lot of features... the rest of the changes were essentially aesthetic, not functional.

ipad mini 2 added a retina display, you could argue however this was just an upgrade of one part like the processor or ram... it was barely a feature at that point and more the expected norm.

ipad 2 added a camera.

ipod nano became metal instead of plastic.

the 2nd ipod shuffle became smaller, and lost some functionality.

the 2nd generation macbook air used mini displayport instead of micro-dvi.


do i need to go on?

history shows us generation 2 adds performance in a tighter package. generation 3 is when features are usually added; the iphone 3GS's retina display. the first ipad with retina display was the 3rd one, and so on.
 
I agree. My memory of Apple's 2nd gen products are that they were meh. I had the iPad 1 and skipped the iPad 2. I skipped all of the iPhones until the 4. I was late to the game and started on the iPod 2 that I held onto until my iPhone. But I do not remember a material difference between the iPod 1 and iPod 2. And IIRC it was not until the iPod 4 until they made a significant jump forward.
 
I agree. My memory of Apple's 2nd gen products are that they were meh. I had the iPad 1 and skipped the iPad 2. I skipped all of the iPhones until the 4. I was late to the game and started on the iPod 2 that I held onto until my iPhone. But I do not remember a material difference between the iPod 1 and iPod 2. And IIRC it was not until the iPod 4 until they made a significant jump forward.

really, ipod 5 was the more significant leap (the color display, enabling more than music playback).

apples iterations generally on an odd number introduce something new and innovative not seen elsewhere, see touch id on iphone 5S, 3d touch on iphone 6S. even numbers tighten up the package and introduce changes only that are technically required or commonplace elsewhere and therefore have to be included (e.g. 3G on 2nd iphone, bigger screen sizes on iphones 5 and 6)
 
myth.

iphone 3g added... 3g and gps to the iphone. i wouldn't say that was a lot of features... the rest of the changes were essentially aesthetic, not functional.

ipad mini 2 added a retina display, you could argue however this was just an upgrade of one part like the processor or ram... it was barely a feature at that point and more the expected norm.

ipad 2 added a camera.

ipod nano became metal instead of plastic.

the 2nd ipod shuffle became smaller, and lost some functionality.

the 2nd generation macbook air used mini displayport instead of micro-dvi.


do i need to go on?

history shows us generation 2 adds performance in a tighter package. generation 3 is when features are usually added; the iphone 3GS's retina display. the first ipad with retina display was the 3rd one, and so on.
I agree. My memory of Apple's 2nd gen products are that they were meh. I had the iPad 1 and skipped the iPad 2. I skipped all of the iPhones until the 4. I was late to the game and started on the iPod 2 that I held onto until my iPhone. But I do not remember a material difference between the iPod 1 and iPod 2. And IIRC it was not until the iPod 4 until they made a significant jump forward.


Don't necessarily disagree with you in general. However, the iPad 2 was not an incremental update. It was thinner, lighter, considerably more powerful and got a camera. In my mind, an upgrade like iPad to iPad 2 is precisely what we'd want to see
 
Don't necessarily disagree with you in general. However, the iPad 2 was not an incremental update. It was thinner,

not a feature


not a feature

considerably more powerful

not a feature

and got a camera. In my mind, an upgrade like iPad to iPad 2 is precisely what we'd want to see

only the camera is a new feature. this is my point, if apple watch 2 is like iphone to iphone 3G, or ipad to ipad 2 or ipad mini to mini 2, or macbook air to 2nd revision macbook air... performance will be the focus and not adding tons of features. shrinking is more likely (but probably not necessary at this point)
 
not a feature



not a feature



not a feature



only the camera is a new feature. this is my point, if apple watch 2 is like iphone to iphone 3G, or ipad to ipad 2 or ipad mini to mini 2, or macbook air to 2nd revision macbook air... performance will be the focus and not adding tons of features. shrinking is more likely (but probably not necessary at this point)

Every one of those is a feature. It's exactly why many people are happily using the iPad 2 today and almost nobody was using an iPad 1 a year or two on. Apple could definitely update the AW2 in the same way.
 
Maybe it's more accurate to say that Apple has a history of adding the most obvious missing features to its 2nd gen products. This is why they often become the long-running base model over time.
 
Every one of those is a feature. It's exactly why many people are happily using the iPad 2 today and almost nobody was using an iPad 1 a year or two on. Apple could definitely update the AW2 in the same way.

they're not features. they're improvements. they weren't added to the ipad, merely improved upon.

this thread is talking about things which apple can add to the apple watch. features. not improve upon...

Maybe it's more accurate to say that Apple has a history of adding the most obvious missing features to its 2nd gen products. This is why they often become the long-running base model over time.

iphone 4 with retina display released june 2010. ipad 2 without retina display released march 2011...
 
they're not features. they're improvements. they weren't added to the ipad, merely improved upon.

this thread is talking about things which apple can add to the apple watch. features. not improve upon...



iphone 4 with retina display released june 2010. ipad 2 without retina display released march 2011...

I'm sorry. That's semantics that just don't matter. The iPad 2 was dramatically lighter and easier to hold than the iPad 1. Even if nothing else had changed, that alone made it a much easier device to live with for its intended purpose. The iPad 2 continues to be a useful device for people all these years on because it is thin, light, and fast enough. Not because it has a camera.

Is this your thread? I'm not sure why you think you get to dictate the direction it takes.
If the only thing that the AW2 did was get faster with much better battery life, it'd be a much better device. Notably, in the AW2 'wishlist' thread, those are two common topics of interest.
 
That's semantics that just don't matter... I'm not sure why you think you get to dictate the direction it takes.
The context of this thread is new health sensors that may be present in AW2. In that context, physical changes are not relevant to the OP and many of the following responses.
 
The GPS doesn't have to use any battery if it's not in active use. My Garmin watch goes about 10 hours during an activity that uses the GPS constantly, and I've seen it go as long as 2 weeks when I'm not using it at all.
Let's go with this (I've got a Garmin 410 with similar specs) --

Ten hours of GPS is three percent of the time you get with two weeks of no GPS. Another way to say this is, with a full charge and GPS active, the battery lasts only 3% of the total time it could last if GPS was turned off. If you (or I) use GPS for a decent four-hour bike ride, you've knocked down half the battery, and would also have half the non-GPS reserve power available.

Let's say a hypothetical AW with GPS is similarly efficient, just to make it easier for us armchair engineers.

Apple states 18 hours of battery life for the current model, although most of us on the forums end the day with 30-40% remaining. Better than Apple's figures, so that's cool. Let's keep it easy and say we get a square 24 hours of battery life.

Three percent of 24 hours is 43 minutes. Again, this is assuming an AW with GPS is as efficient as the Garmin. This also means, for the sake of starting with a full battery, you can't use the AW for anything else before your GPS-tracked workout, and it'll be stone dead by the end.

We're also not accounting for the different power requirements of a wireless HR strap versus optical HR sensors.*

What if the AW gets a GPS with twice the power efficiency? We can have up to 90 minutes of tracking a run or bike ride and nothing else. Still not very useful, and to me, it seems like a waste of all the other capabilities of the AW.

And, we're still not including any data radios such as ANT+, wifi, or LTE. I've opined before that a GPS-equipped smartwatch should also have data access so it could be as capable as we'd want it to be -- more than just workouts, it should give us mapping directions, local business searches, etc.

So, with a bare-bones GPS enabled, with zero data downloading or HR tracking, we can have an AW with maybe an hour's worth of usage. The rest of the day, it would be a tiny paperweight.

Or, we can track a 30-minute workout -- still with no HR or anything else -- and have 8-12 hours of regular usage, meaning that we'd need to pop it on the charger at work or in the car, which then defeats the idea of a smartwatch we'd want to wear all day long.

I don't see being able to jam a GPS inside the AW at its current size with current battery technology. I also don't want a fatter, overweight AW -- that's my Garmin, and I stopped trying to wear it as a daily watch long ago. I think we're barking up the wrong tree every time we think we want GPS in the AW sometime this decade.

----
*Speaking of optical HR, you've noticed that the green LEDs aren't being driven as brightly as possible, yes? Turn them on and watch them while moving the watch -- you'll see that they're actually flashing, not steady. Bicycle LEDs use a similar setting when in mid- and low-power modes. They also get several hours of battery life in their lowest settings, and with much bigger batteries than you'd ever want on your wrist (one of mine used a four-pack of AAs). Apple is already trying to conserve power with the LED sensor settings; do you think they want to add anything to gobble up more power?
 
Let's go with this (I've got a Garmin 410 with similar specs) --

Ten hours of GPS is three percent of the time you get with two weeks of no GPS. Another way to say this is, with a full charge and GPS active, the battery lasts only 3% of the total time it could last if GPS was turned off. If you (or I) use GPS for a decent four-hour bike ride, you've knocked down half the battery, and would also have half the non-GPS reserve power available.

Let's say a hypothetical AW with GPS is similarly efficient, just to make it easier for us armchair engineers.

Apple states 18 hours of battery life for the current model, although most of us on the forums end the day with 30-40% remaining. Better than Apple's figures, so that's cool. Let's keep it easy and say we get a square 24 hours of battery life.

Three percent of 24 hours is 43 minutes. Again, this is assuming an AW with GPS is as efficient as the Garmin. This also means, for the sake of starting with a full battery, you can't use the AW for anything else before your GPS-tracked workout, and it'll be stone dead by the end.

We're also not accounting for the different power requirements of a wireless HR strap versus optical HR sensors.*

What if the AW gets a GPS with twice the power efficiency? We can have up to 90 minutes of tracking a run or bike ride and nothing else. Still not very useful, and to me, it seems like a waste of all the other capabilities of the AW.

And, we're still not including any data radios such as ANT+, wifi, or LTE. I've opined before that a GPS-equipped smartwatch should also have data access so it could be as capable as we'd want it to be -- more than just workouts, it should give us mapping directions, local business searches, etc.

So, with a bare-bones GPS enabled, with zero data downloading or HR tracking, we can have an AW with maybe an hour's worth of usage. The rest of the day, it would be a tiny paperweight.

Or, we can track a 30-minute workout -- still with no HR or anything else -- and have 8-12 hours of regular usage, meaning that we'd need to pop it on the charger at work or in the car, which then defeats the idea of a smartwatch we'd want to wear all day long.

I don't see being able to jam a GPS inside the AW at its current size with current battery technology. I also don't want a fatter, overweight AW -- that's my Garmin, and I stopped trying to wear it as a daily watch long ago. I think we're barking up the wrong tree every time we think we want GPS in the AW sometime this decade.

----
*Speaking of optical HR, you've noticed that the green LEDs aren't being driven as brightly as possible, yes? Turn them on and watch them while moving the watch -- you'll see that they're actually flashing, not steady. Bicycle LEDs use a similar setting when in mid- and low-power modes. They also get several hours of battery life in their lowest settings, and with much bigger batteries than you'd ever want on your wrist (one of mine used a four-pack of AAs). Apple is already trying to conserve power with the LED sensor settings; do you think they want to add anything to gobble up more power?

The two weeks range is on the very long end - and just to illustrate the point that when shut down, the GPS consumes no power. The Garmin 225 goes more like 3 days on a charge if I run with it an hour or so every day, compared to my AW which will go for about 24 hours under those circumstances, so I don't see the situation as nearly as dire as you predict. The problem is that they would most likely have to increase the size of the watch to fit a GPS in there and just keep the same battery life - which might only be 4-6 hours of active use. For that reason, I'd be happy enough with an accessory band for the GPS.
 
I'd be fine with no powered accessory bands at all. Even though I don't get as much workout data from the AW by itself, I've also stopped using the Garmin and will be happy to sell it this season. Let someone else enjoy the bulk.
 
The context of this thread is new health sensors that may be present in AW2. In that context, physical changes are not relevant to the OP and many of the following responses.
This particular turn in the thread occurred because you and the other guy are insisting that Apple does nothing meaningful with 2nd Gen products. I and @zhenya have argued that Apple typically makes extremely meaningful changes to 2nd gen products. My reference to the iPad 2's superior physical specs was an example of how Apple vastly improves 2nd gen products. This was as a means of rebutting your weak argument that Apple will likely not add more health sensors because of your (incorrect) belief that Apple does only "meh" (your term) things with 2nd gen products. Does this close the loop for you sufficiently, or shall I go on?
 
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Does this close the loop for you sufficiently, or shall I go on?
No need for you to go on. It is a difference of opinion. The other guy and I have not been very impressed with Apple 2nd gen products. You and your other guy are impressed. I do not see your 2nd gen strengths equating to new health sensors in the 2nd gen AW. I guess you do; that is your opinion.
 
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No need for you to go on. It is a difference of opinion. The other guy and I have not been very impressed with Apple 2nd gen products. You and your other guy are impressed. I do not see your 2nd gen strengths equating to new health sensors in the 2nd gen AW. I guess you do; that is your opinion.

For what it's worth, I have been impressed by some of apples 2nd gen products.

In some parts of the world an iPhone 3G could access the Internet just as fast as an iPhone 6S to this day, because 4G is still not ubiquitous.

One of my grandparents and one of my wife's use iPad 2 to this day. As @zhenya said not because of the camera but because of the design and performance improvements. I don't consider their individual aspects (thinner, lighter, more ram) features. It's semantics perhaps, but strikes me as tech boys trying to jizz over the spec sheets like android fanboys do.

I also think Apple doesn't consider them features but part of the overall package. See how every iOS product on their website has a section for performance... A section for design... And then multiple sections for features, such as the new camera.

As I said I've been impressed with some of apples 2nd gen products. But they don't do anything outwardly significant, they improve performance, which is what it needs most. In light of the thread title I don't think they'll add more sensors to the watch.

On another note I also have doubts they'll make it thinner. the whole point of the stainless steel model is a heavier premium feel and this would be diminished by thinning.
 
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