What ports should make a return to the 2021 Macbook Pro?

[537635]

The original post referencing rocket boosters wasn't mine, so no. But it did hint at the idea of the difference being an old design.

I guess you're the only one who understood the NASA/SpaceX analogy. Figures.

Why don't you use even more ridiculous comparisons?

"If everyone thought like that, we'd still be riding horses instead of airplanes."

"If everyone thought like that, we'd still be cavemen chasing deers across the lands for our next meal."

It's called progress and in comes in many forms. There are people who embrace it and there are people who are against it for many different reasons. Single use ports will inevitably come to an end in the future. They are are relics from times where tech standards were very specialized and you had to compromise a lot. USB-C (especially 4.0) has no such restrains.

Apple did a similar feat with SSDs, high res displays and getting rid of optical drives. Arguments against were very, very similar than here. USB-C simply didn't take (yet) for the sheer amount of USB-A (and HDMI) devices.

Also I read here USB-C is expensive. Interesting. We have Aldi and Lidl here (like Trader Joe's?) and they also have tech items and in the last year or so everything is USB-C (power banks, headphones...). Anker, Aukey, Ravpower, all new devices are USB-C.

 

[alien3dx]

I guess you're the only one who understood the NASA/SpaceX analogy. Figures.


It's called progress and in comes in many forms. There are people who embrace it and there are people who are against it for many different reasons. Single use ports will inevitably come to an end in the future. They are are relics from times where tech standards were very specialized and you had to compromise a lot. USB-C (especially 4.0) has no such restrains.

Apple did a similar feat with SSDs, high res displays and getting rid of optical drives. Arguments against were very, very similar than here. USB-C simply didn't take (yet) for the sheer amount of USB-A (and HDMI) devices.

Also I read here USB-C is expensive. Interesting. We have Aldi and Lidl here (like Trader Joe's?) and they also have tech items and in the last year or so everything is USB-C (power banks, headphones...). Anker, Aukey, Ravpower, all new devices are USB-C.

Some usb c product not expensive but most using usb c charging and 2.0 usb only.My 2 power bank support usb c but cannot charge the m1 laptop or the sold huawei laptop. I think we need to have something like 40w power bank .

Previously bought : sony jogging headphone usb c , 1 sandisk usb c sandik 246gb( usb c 3.1) (external boot ) ,hkvision 480 gb usb c ( normal nvme external), few pen drive usb c kingston also.

 

[svanstrom]

Didn't you know that's all anyone does in this thread? Missing the point.

No, the majority of people here are telling you that you're wrong, egocentric, and that you refuse to understand the world as it actually is; but we're not missing the point that you're trying to so hard to make out to be some sort of enlightenment that everyone must agree with. We see it; and we're saying that you're wrong.

 

[Stephen.R]

Because you've, quite literally, contributed nothing constructive to this discussion.

Given how well yourself and others seem to understand my point, I'm not surprised you think that.

Rather than accepting and then agreeing or disagreeing with others opinions, you made the choice of belittling them.

If I make a post, and people respond to it saying crazy things that mischaracterise the point I was making, you bet I'm gonna call them on that.

I've tried to explain a very basic concept of "I don't want to lose functionality for your convenience". Very few have even acknowledged that it's a possibility - even when presented with evidence such as currently shipping Macs that literally have the attributes I'm talking about.

If you want to accept that possibility and advocate for the change regardless, that's your prerogative, but don't mistake your inability or unwillingness to understand my point, for me not having one.

No, the majority of people here are telling you that you're wrong

Not wanting to lose existing functionality, to solve a minor inconvenience is wrong? Ok then. I don't want to be right, if that's how you want to define it.

you refuse to understand the world as it actually is

I don't even know where to begin with this?

but we're not missing the point that you're trying to so hard to make out to be some sort of enlightenment that everyone must agree with

What the **** are you talking about? What ****ing enlightenment?

We see it; and we're saying that you're wrong.

No, you clearly don't.

My point is really ****ing simple.

I don't want to lose functionality for your convenience.​

But tell me some more how I'm wrong?

 

[darngooddesign]

My point is really ****ing simple.

I don't want to lose functionality for your convenience.​

But tell me some more how I'm wrong?

Fun fact: No one is asking Apple to get rid of USB-C ports or USB-C charging.

 

[svanstrom]

I don't want to lose functionality for your convenience.​

Then go get yourself one of those hubs/adapters that you find so convenient; and stop trying to be an inconvenience to everyone else. 😘

 

[darngooddesign]

Then go get yourself one of those hubs/adapters that you find so convenient; and stop trying to be an inconvenience to everyone else. 😘

Nah, he can just get an HDMI > USB-C adapter.

 

[Stephen.R]

Fun fact: No one is asking Apple to get rid of USB-C ports or USB-C charging.

Then go get yourself one of those hubs/adapters that you find so convenient; and stop trying to be an inconvenience to everyone else. 😘

congratulations for both missing the point again.

clearly neither of you has read the posts that explain what I’m talking about, or if you have you’re being disingenuous.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

My point is really ****ing simple.
I don't want to lose functionality for your convenience.

But tell me some more how I'm wrong?

Well... you said you weren’t getting upset, but it’s clear this is all getting a bit too much for you.

After all, the mere thought that Apple may add some I/O, based on a rumor, which you don’t have to use is truly shocking.

 

[537635]

Fun fact: No one is asking Apple to get rid of USB-C ports or USB-C charging.

Nobody is claiming that. I guess what you fail to understand is, that EVERY additional single use port comes at the expense of something else (volume, thickness, battery life, other ports, etc.).

Clearly there will be numerous USB-C ports. What this debate is about is, how unnecessary is the rumoured addition of outdated single use ports.

 

[Stephen.R]

After all, the mere thought that Apple may add some I/O, based on a rumor, which don’t have to use is truly shocking

The inability or unwillingness of some to actually read posts is actually kind of scary.

Why even bother having a conversation if you’re not going to actually read what the other person is saying?

 

[darngooddesign]

I read the posts, I just think it's silly to suggest that Apple can't fit more than two USB-C ports per side on their big 16" laptop without crippling the computer in some way. Its not like they're going to add more USB-C ports if their don't add MagSafe or SD/HDMI (I prefer SD over HDMI).

 

[Stephen.R]

I read the posts, I just think it's silly to suggest that Apple can't fit more than two USB-C ports per side on their big 16" laptop without crippling the computer in some way. Its not like they're going to add more USB-C ports if their don't add MagSafe or SD/HDMI (I prefer SD over HDMI).

I have very rarely if at all mentioned the concept of having less USB-c ports.

So no, you did not read or did not understand my posts.

 

[theluggage]

Nobody is claiming that. I guess what you fail to understand is, that EVERY additional single use port comes at the expense of something else (volume, thickness, battery life, other ports, etc.).

So does EVERY USB-C/TB3 port. Each full-featured USB-C controller requires the equivalent of 4 PCIe lanes (either external or internal to the SoC) and 2 DisplayPort streams (or the switching needed to share them with other controllers), plus the plumbing needed for power supply and plumbing. Alternatively, you have the fugly mess of different functionality on different so-called "universal" ports.

The sort of "single use" port facilities that people are asking for - 1-2 USB-A connectors, 1x HDMI, maybe SD could be implemented with less I/O resources than adding more TB3/USB-C.

Then, switching to Apple Silicon has the potential to reduce battery consumption, reduce the number of components on the mainboard (look at the M1 teardowns) and reduce the space needed for fans/heatsinks. Apple also gets to re-think how much I/O the chip requires, and whether the desktop/mobile distinction that Intel made (Intel mobile chips tend to have limited I/O c/f desktop). Possibly, even the cases are getting re-designed. So the designers should have a potential space/power/battery/IO bonus to divvy up between TB3, "single-use" ports or thinner laptops.

Then there are other constraints - e.g. you can't make the laptop smaller than the display, and the 16" MBP already has the highest capacity battery that is allowed in airplane hand luggage.

So this is simply not a case of taking things away from the Intel Macs - there's a reason why these rumours coincide with the switch to Apple Silicon and other rumours about major re-designs.

Designing a single product to satisfy a large number of different users always means making compromises, which doesn't always mean going for the maximum theoretical capacity in a perfect world with hot- and cold- running Thunderbolt. People buy computers to solve real-world problems, not win at Top Trumps.

Plus, there are new capabilities - TB4 (...and the updated TB3 used in the M1 Macs) allows for Thunderbolt hubs - add one of those to a 2-Port Air and you're close to the capability of the current 4-port models. Also, everything is moving to DisplayPort 1.4, so you no longer need 2 DP streams for a 5k or higher display... So while I doubt that they will reduce the high-end MBP to 2 ports, it wouldn't be such a disaster (...because it's silly to complain about needing hubs/docks etc. and being able to 'dock' to 3 devices with a single cable is good, right?)

 

[darngooddesign]

I have very rarely if at all mentioned the concept of having less USB-c ports.

So no, you did not read or did not understand my posts.

Theres a lot of that going around because you didn't understand mine.

The current 16" has two ports per side, and I said it's silly to think that Apple can't figure out how to find space for MagSafe and SD or HDMI without crippling the computer in some way.

 

[Stephen.R]

The current 16" has two ports per side, and I said it's silly to think that Apple can't figure out how to find space for MagSafe and SD or HDMI without crippling the computer in some way.

The mini released since 2018 has four ports and hdmi.

one of the three supported video outputs is hard-wired to the hdmi output.

if you wanted three DisplayPort or USB-c displays? Tough luck.

Apple made the same decision when designing the 2020 M1 mini, except the total display count is reduced to two, so only one DisplayPort/USB-c display is supported.

It has never been about “can’t”. It’s about will they or won’t they.

very few choices apple makes in its products are purely because of technical limitations.

I’ll go get some popcorn to see how the gallery misunderstands and mischaracterises this post.

 

[darngooddesign]

The mini released since 2018 has four ports and hdmi.

one of the three supported video outputs is hard-wired to the hdmi output.

if you wanted three DisplayPort or USB-c displays? Tough luck.

Wouldn't it being weird if Apple is able to make a more powerful computer than their first-gen, entry-level M1 Macs. It might even have more capable internals.

 

[Stephen.R]

Wouldn't it being weird if Apple is able to make a more powerful computer than their first-gen, entry-level M1 Macs. It might even have more capable internals.

I give up. How is it so hard for anyone to acknowledge a possible downside? You can even say you don’t care and still want hdmi.

 

[darngooddesign]

I give up. How is it so hard for anyone to acknowledge a possible downside? You can even say you don’t care and still want hdmi.

While it's certainly possible, I just don't believe there will be a downside to adding MagSafe and a legacy port like SD or HDMI (I prefer UHS2 SD but would be fine if other people get HDMI); The 16 will still have better battery life, it will still have the same USB-C ports which can charge the computer from either side, and since Apple doesn't make its laptops thicker so the volume and size will be similar to the current 16. In fact, if Apple is going to a squarer design like the rumors say, there will be more internal space for the additional ports.

I would even be fine with three USB-C ports to allow for SD, which is the largest of the speculated ports, since the one I currently use for power would be available for USB-C things. Heck, I would even be fine with the addition of only MagSafe.

 

[anthony13]

Seem's I'm an outlier. I'm not opposed to mag safe coming back, as long as we retain the ability to also charge by USB-C, and on both sides. I would have said no to USB-A, except Logitech continues to ship their peripherals with USB-A wireless adapters. Ethernet seems impossible because of size constraints, I think that one is probably gone for good, as I don't see Apple using some sort of mechanical fold out solution as others have (nor would I want them too). The HDMI port was always faulty for me in the first place, and while I would have appreciated it's return in 2016, I think the boat's sailed on that one too.

 

[darngooddesign]

I would have said no to USB-A, except Logitech continues to ship their peripherals with USB-A wireless adapters.

Yeah when I recently bought a BT mouse from them I got one which didn't need the USB adapter. My older one with a USB-A adapter works fine on my work Lenovo and I'll just keep it for that, but no reason to occupy a USBC slot on my Mac for that anymore. Besides, I'm seeing a lot of BT mice which come with both A and C adapters.

 

[smoking monkey]

I don't know much about the SD Card Slot as I've barely used it on my iMac and never used it on my old laptop, but from memory the card doesn't sit flush with the side of the computer, yeah? Or has that changed and it's spring loaded?

If it sat flush with the side, I'd be keen to utilize such a port by using it as a constant external internal for certain things, but if it doesn't sit flush it's just a slower yet much smaller external drive. Mmm... how much slower?

 

[darngooddesign]

SD Card have to be a certain size so they do stick out, but the SD drives for the older Macs could be flush or almost flush.

 

[fuchsdh]

I don't know much about the SD Card Slot as I've barely used it on my iMac and never used it on my old laptop, but from memory the card doesn't sit flush with the side of the computer, yeah? Or has that changed and it's spring loaded?

If it sat flush with the side, I'd be keen to utilize such a port by using it as a constant external internal for certain things, but if it doesn't sit flush it's just a slower yet much smaller external drive. Mmm... how much slower?

Cards get up to 300MB/s or thereabouts these days. Slow compared to modern standards, but it's still much faster than old hard drives. From a price standpoint though I think you're better off getting an external SSD and taping it to the side. Less portable, obviously, but you'll get a lot more space and storage for the price.

 

[smoking monkey]

Cards get up to 300MB/s or thereabouts these days. Slow compared to modern standards, but it's still much faster than old hard drives. From a price standpoint though I think you're better off getting an external SSD and taping it to the side. Less portable, obviously, but you'll get a lot more space and storage for the price.

Thanks for the info.
re taping a HD to side of computer. Haha. I shan’t be doing that! I was just wondering out loud. It’s a medium capacity, medium speed, medium priced storage option. Worth thinking about though I guess.