What PPC Mac do you recommend?

[Bloodstar]

...I didn't realize most MDDs were that loud. Yikes. Something must've been replaced in mine.

Mine is the loudest machine I own, yes (though compared to my PC it's almost equal as far as I can tell, and the G5s are super quiet), but it's nowhere near that bad.

 

[chrismacguy]

...I didn't realize most MDDs were that loud. Yikes. Something must've been replaced in mine.

Mine is the loudest machine I own, yes (though compared to my PC it's almost equal as far as I can tell, and the G5s are super quiet), but it's nowhere near that bad.

Yours must have had the fan replaced, or your just not using it right 😛 - Mine under light load isn't too bad, however as soon as I do anything CPU intensive, it sounds like its about to take off... I swear I've heard quieter 747s... well maybe not, but its close.

 

[zen.state]

really? mate its a wind tunnel....

unless you have it located externally, you will go deaf. 😀

True geeks love the sound of a computer. It's part of the experience.

I have owned 2 MDD myself in that past and you are really exaggerating the noise level. It's maybe 35db.

 

[Cox Orange]

Id recommend the dual core 2.3 g5 with an fx4500 512mb card in it and around 6gb of ram.
Cheerd

by the way, we've debated that graphics card before (as I recall), the Quadro FX4500 512MB, is the same speed as the flashed Geforce 7800GTX, 512MB. The Quadro is only specialized for CAD and such. The 7800GTX is much cheaper. (just a side note 😉

I've decided to get a PowerMac G4 MDD.Thanks for all the help guys!

about the wind tunnel: there is a firmware update "to improve fan control". I don't know whether it really helps, but here is the link http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1175?viewlocale=en_US
(it is not listed under the other recommended updates http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1395)

There were two PSUs, I think a sony and Liteon (or Acbel?) one, I think the sony was more quiet. (The others have to make sure, whether I am right though). There was a replacement programm, too.

every line had its "personal" bugs. The Quicksilver had a motherboard shielding problem, which caused an audio-popping or hissing in the speakers, when using external audio-equipment. (there is a hint at wikipedia).

But, this can be an argument for buying used Macs in general. Typical problems, that usually occurred in the first 3 years, have a higher chance not being present, when the machine is allready 6+ years old and did not have these specific problems.

 

[zen.state]

I have done full fan replacements on at least 7-8 client MDD's in the past. Can be done for as little as maybe $40. That can put the overall noise level below 25db and it's hard for the human ear to hear anything around 22db or lower. To hear the ones I have done this on you actually have to put your ear within 4 inches of the tower. I will gladly help anyone on here replace the fans in an MDD. A bit of extra noise is a ridiculous reason to not buy a computer. It's borderline vain in fact unless you do something with audio that needs absolute silence. People who think like this should maybe stick to laptops. Desktops make noise.. it's just part of what they are.

Recommending G5 towers to people is just silly. Anyone who actually knows the history of Apple machines and reliability wouldn't recommend anything G5 to people. Even the most reliable one (dual 2.3) has a death rate of over 1 in 10 and those numbers are from the first couple years of the G5's era. In other words that 11% would be much higher after all these years. The dual 2GHz numbers from back then were a whopping 32%. Would be at least 50% by now. One of my clients had a lab of 12 dual 2GHz G5's and 7 have bit the dust so far. Some are the logic board and some the PSU. Some both.

If you already have one then enjoy it and get all you can out of it while you can. Please do not try to drag other people into the full on sketchiness that was the G5 and all it's supporting hardware.

This is the issue with advice on forums. Virtually all the advice given is based on personal experience with only your own whatever the advice is on which more often than not equates to misinformation for other people.

 

[reddrag0n]

I would have to agree with you zen.state, it is all just the user experience. I myself have used macs ranging from the old Powermac 4400's all the way up to my current MDD. Yes, each one had their follies, and others ran flawlessly.

As for the fan mod and swap, I have done that in mine and yes, it costs around $40. The big kicker to the noise in mine is the fact that I am running a custom modded power supply (Enermax 465W) with 2 - 60 mm fans on it's controller and when it gets warm it wails. The rest of the machine is quiet. I had to add a 5th fan right on top of the cpu heatsink just to keep things under 46 Celsius because without it, it raised up to 58 Celsius on load and the mac started to bog itself down.

The only reason why I am swapping out to a G5 is the fact of the 64 bit processors, more ram capability and dual processors over 2 GHz. I know I could get a first gen Mac Pro, but those right now are way out of my price range and I won't be able to get one for too many months to come.

 

[SuperJudge]

This is the issue with advice on forums. Virtually all the advice given is based on personal experience with only your own whatever the advice is on which more often than not equates to misinformation for other people.

Agreed.

As they say, anecdote is not the singular of data. G5s in my experience are touchy at best and completely flaky at worst. If you have one that works, keep it! If you don't have one, don't bother with one if you're going to pay money for it. If you like the look of the case, buy one off of eBay and cram something good inside of it. One of my all time favorite case mods was one where someone took the guts of a Quicksilver and put them inside a G5 case. That was smart thinking, IMO. 😎

 

[Cox Orange]

... Please do not try to drag other people into the full on sketchiness that was the G5 and all it's supporting hardware...

I didn't want to, I just wanted to add, that there is a firmware update as part of the solution and that every model has its model specific known issues (G5 iMacs with dead screens and capacitor bleeding, G3s with dead screen due to defective D/A/V-Board, early ibook G4s with graphics chip that looses itself, when getting warm, ...), which shall be no reason to defend a model line that seems to be more a risk than others.
I heard of someone having 24 Quads (in 2008) in a lab that started leaking almost the same week all together as if they had a time bomb in it and there are others that seem to have more luck, but the reports are getting more and more on xlr8yourmac.com

 

[zen.state]

I didn't want to, I just wanted to add, that there is a firmware update as part of the solution and that every model has its model specific known issues (G5 iMacs with dead screens and capacitor bleeding, G3s with dead screen due to defective D/A/V-Board, early ibook G4s with graphics chip that looses itself, when getting warm, ...), which shall be no reason to defend a model line that seems to be more a risk than others.
I heard of someone having 24 Quads (in 2008) in a lab that started leaking almost the same week all together as if they had a time bomb in it and there are others that seem to have more luck, but the reports are getting more and more on xlr8yourmac.com

With the G5 every single tower and iMac model they made has issues. That was certainly nowhere near the case with G3 or G4 Macs.

The PowerMac G4 towers (especially the Sawtooth) are absolute tanks. Mine is over 11 years old now. The manufacture date is March 2000. The PSU and logic board are the only original parts inside mind you but they are very key components in a computers operation. They have never been replaced.

Lets see how many G5 towers are still running in 2014 when the oldest one will turn 11. My guess.. maybe 20%.

 

[yamu]

My Mystic (Gigabit Ethernet) G4 just turned 11 years and is still in daily use. Since 11 years this Powermac runs 12-16 hours daily. Sure, i replaced harddisks, upgraded the CPU und Graphics, added USB 2 and RAM and a Combo-Burner, but i never replaced a part because it was faulty. I could bring it back with original components and it would still work.

I often thought about a newer machine, just to be up to date, but except video encoding, everything is still very fast and snappy with its 1 Ghz Sonnet upgrade, i rarely see the beachball. And with a faster machine i can not write faster or move things faster around.... so its still life in the G4, i think.

 

[Bloodstar]

If you already have one then enjoy it and get all you can out of it while you can. Please do not try to drag other people into the full on sketchiness that was the G5 and all it's supporting hardware.

This is the issue with advice on forums. Virtually all the advice given is based on personal experience with only your own whatever the advice is on which more often than not equates to misinformation for other people.

Well, if you actually can find a cheap enough G5, I wouldn't call them a bad purchase at all. Especially since you'd still have a nice case and likely a couple extra parts if/when the thing dies. (By cheap enough... I'm guessing cheaper than a top-end G4 machine of any type, be it upgraded Sawtooth or 1.42ghz MDD.) After reading things, though, I don't think I'd really put too much out for one anymore over a G4. If you want to talk cases, though, I actually like the MDD's the most... the biggest downfall is no front/side USB, which is easily fixed by using a hub.

I actually managed to snag my dual 1.8 G5 from my college for a single dollar. No, I'm not lying or exaggerating - this is the exact price I paid for it, and it's working fine! (Again, if it dies... I have a nice 160GB HDD to toss into my PC and a 9600XT to toss into my MDD!)

As mentioned, everyone's experiences will be different - I've picked this up especially from my old iBook thread and the fact that my experience is different from others: Leopard runs excellently for me, though I keep Tiger around just in case. My MDD does feel fairly sluggish compared to my G5, as well, but I'm guessing another gigabyte of RAM and a CI-capable video card would rectify that a good bit. (As much as I want a 1.8ghz G4, too... those are just way too expensive to justify for me.)

 

[cocacolakid]

really? mate its a wind tunnel....

unless you have it located externally, you will go deaf. 😀

My 1.42 MDD G4 had the original PSU and it was extremely loud, but I swapped it out for the replacement version Apple later offered and it is fine. I don't notice any particularly louder than normal fans. A friend has an HP Microjunk with a fancy video card and the PSU whirs constantly on that one. My MDD is much, much quieter than that.

 

[Macdude2010]

I think it was the single core 1.8ghz G5 that had the most problems out of all of them... so stay far, far away from it.

And have you thought of picking up one of the core duo mini's or original core 2 duo mini's? They're about the same speed as a G5, but slightly more compatable with current software.

Actually I think the single 1.8 GHz (2nd gen) was one of the better ones in terms of reliability (after the firmware update), I have one from June 05 and it is still running strong, and if you look on eBay you can see that most of the ones for sale that work are the single core <2GHz.

A 19% fail rate is a little high but the #1 failed part was the hard drive (which no other G5 can say because the #1 failed part on the other ones were the logic board)

 

[Macdude2010]

I personally would never touch anything with a G5 chip. Every single computer Apple ever put a G5 in has issues with either the PSU, capacitors or fried boards.

Just look at all the dead G5 or my G5 won't start threads. Even the odd thread asking about a "loud pop".

If I were you I would get 2x G4 Macs and use their power combined together. If that isn't an option for you then I would honestly recommend a used Mac Pro over a G5. Even just a quad Mac Pro would be a screamer beyond anything you can imagine. The G5 is at the core of some of the sketchiest hardware ever made which in turn caused the death of PowerPC chips at Apple.

People who embrace PowerPC should morally shun the G5 for what it did to our beloved RISC platform.

I just looked at whats left of the PowerPC forum and I see more "My PowerMac G4 won't start" then "My G5 won't start"

Only a few of the G5's were good models, but some are good

 

[rdp5008]

I have a single 1.6 GHZ G5. I had to replace the logic board but it's been fine since. It is pretty slow even with a new faster HDD, upgraded video card, and max RAM but it does what it needs to do. I use the Macbook for most things now.

 

[Macdude2010]

I have a single 1.6 GHZ G5. I had to replace the logic board but it's been fine since. It is pretty slow even with a new faster HDD, upgraded video card, and max RAM but it does what it needs to do. I use the Macbook for most things now.

Well the 1.6GHz model had a VERY HIGH fail rate on it's logic board of 12.1% fail rate

 

[Jethryn Freyman]

Don't get a G5, their reliability is appalling (leaking capacitors and the like.) I know because I used to be an Apple technician. Go for an Intel Mac or a G4 Power Mac (Digital Audio model or newer.)

 

[Macdude2010]

Don't get a G5, their reliability is appalling (leaking capacitors and the like.) I know because I used to be an Apple technician. Go for an Intel Mac or a G4 Power Mac (Digital Audio model or newer.)

Wasn't the capacitors only the iMac G5?

I think the only re-appering problem on the powermac was the leaking coolant

 

[cocacolakid]

Wasn't the capacitors only the iMac G5?

I think the only re-appering problem on the powermac was the leaking coolant

Logicboards were the main problem on Power Mac's, followed by power supplies.

Someone posted this chart earlier, but here's the link again, and remember, these failure rates were when the PM's were relatively new in 2006 and had been on the market for only up to 3 years, depending on the model. You have to think that the failure rate on things like logicboards is likely much higher than these numbers 5 years later... http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-power-mac-g5-prices.html.

The article those numbers come from has more in depth information on G5 PM failures here... http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

On average, in 2006, 23% of G5 Power Mac's failed.

The model with the most failures was the 2.0 Dual at 32%.

The model with the least failures was the 2.3 Dual at 11%.

All of the other models had 17-27% failure rates.

 

[zen.state]

Well the 1.6GHz model had a VERY HIGH fail rate on it's logic board of 12.1% fail rate

12% is quite low compared to the first dual 2.0GHz which was at 32% failure. 12 is certainly at the better end of the scale since the most reliable model (dual 2.3) was 11%.

 

[Cox Orange]

side note on the G5s and capacitors, I heard it, too, that it were the iMac G5s with bleeding capacitors, but as the 2004 1,8GHz G5 tower is an iMac packed in a tower case, it sounds plausible.

... Someone posted this chart earlier, ... http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-power-mac-g5-prices.html.

The article those numbers come from has more in depth information on G5 PM failures here... http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

I do not want to argue against those of you that banish the G5 towers, but I do want to bring to mind that this was a survey by macintouch. It is common (especially in forums) that you will find those people the most that have a problem and people don't usually "complain" because their machine is working 😀 This leads to such threads like "is the 2011 iMac reliable, I hear so many complains in the forum".
You would have to know the total number sold by apple and the number of recorded repairs and claimed defects.

I would like to add comments from macintouch readers:
Jason Bracy

You state in your post regarding the G5 cooling leak

"Liquid cooling failures, though dramatic when they occur, appear to be quite rare. Just 28 units out of the entire population had a liquid cooling failure. However, in almost every instance, nearby components were damaged and replaced, making an out-of-warranty leak an expensive proposition."

However, you should note that a NO FAULT out of warranty repair by Apple is a fixed rate no matter how many components are damaged, and the rate is usually similar to the cost of AppleCare. (ie if it is a component failure and not a "spilled coffee on my PowerMac while trying to install more RAM")


Tom Mulhall

I wanted to add this comment to the G5 study (PM Dual 2.0 G5, M9032, Mfg week 39 of '03):
This unit has been run virtually 24/7 since being put in service, has gone through 8 (eight) hurricanes in the past two seasons, has run on generator (really gross genny power, BTW) power for over 14 (fourteen) days total time. It has been protected by a Belkin UPS unit (1500VA w/ AVR and extra battery power) the whole time and had not had a single failure in all that time. I estimate the running hours at over 26,000 currently (the biggest downtime was Hurricane Wilma wiping out everything down here).

All in all, a very respectful performance of this Dual 2.0 G5 unit!

I believe that proper power protection is of utmost importance, as out of everything we see for service, over 80% can be traced to a power anomaly -- we have the worst power in the country in the Keys.

Here is another chart: http://www.fusina.net/G5_coolant_leaks/index-stats.php
Some "nice" coolant pictures: http://nysoyan.free.fr/Eaglefour/PowermacG5.html

Some more stuff to read: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/G5_coolant_leaks.html (the one that talks about having lost 7 out of 20, has come to 17 out of 20 when he posted here https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/5684632/

 

[Heavertron]

In my opinion, the best PPC is the model you can buy most cheaply that is still usable. If you can get an eMac or a G4 very very cheaply, then do it. I just don't recommend spending any serious money on a PPC Mac

 

[Macdude2010]

12% is quite low compared to the first dual 2.0GHz which was at 32% failure. 12 is certainly at the better end of the scale since the most reliable model (dual 2.3) was 11%.

That was JUST the logic board

 

[Macdude2010]

Logicboards were the main problem on Power Mac's, followed by power supplies.

Someone posted this chart earlier, but here's the link again, and remember, these failure rates were when the PM's were relatively new in 2006 and had been on the market for only up to 3 years, depending on the model. You have to think that the failure rate on things like logicboards is likely much higher than these numbers 5 years later... http://lowendmac.com/deals/best-power-mac-g5-prices.html.

The article those numbers come from has more in depth information on G5 PM failures here... http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

On average, in 2006, 23% of G5 Power Mac's failed.

The model with the most failures was the 2.0 Dual at 32%.

The model with the least failures was the 2.3 Dual at 11%.

All of the other models had 17-27% failure rates.

Again, most people won't complain if there isnt a problem, so these results are not scientific and extremely undiluted.

The G4's also had a number of problems with the PSU, so aside from the leaking capacitors on the iMac G5 I think the G4 is just as reliable as the G5

 

[zen.state]

The G4's also had a number of problems with the PSU

Thats entirely vague and inaccurate. Only the MDD (and only 6% of them) had PSU issues. The Yikes, Sawtooth, Gigabit Eth, Digital Audio and Quicksilver all have very reliable logic boards and PSU's.

Failure rates on the Sawtooth were literally lower than 2%. Thats why I chose one to base my FrankenMac project on. I have even bought two functional spares for any possible part needs in the future. Pre-MDD towers can easily be found for well under 100. I have seen mint Sawtooth's on ebay for $55 US.