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macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 8, 2012
I am a bit confused here to be honest. There are a lot of comments, threads, appreciation posts about how much Apple has changed since Steve Jobs left this world.

But from my standpoint I honestly struggle to see just the -apparently- enormous change that people want you to believe.

What exactly is so different now, compared to when Steve Jobs was alive? This is a legit question. People are acting as if Steve Jobs had some insane new technologies with each iphone he introduced and they bash apple for not being innovative anymore.

I am sorry but last time I remember Steve Jobs was the one releasing iphone 3gs and Iphone4s. And last time i checked these phones were very small upgrades compared to iphone 3 and iphone 4 respectively. And hell iphone 2g wasnt some magical leap compared to the original one, nor was 3g compared to 2g.... So where exactly is all that Steve Jobs "magic" that has been missing? What exactly is so different than what is happening nowadays? I see the exact same pattern...

Are we talking design? Because the iphone x/xs is by far the most elegant and pretty phone Apple has released notch and all.

Are we talking stagnant innovation? Is the fingerprint sensor, the A series chipset, touch id, the face id etc. technologies that would make Steve Jobs turn around his grave in shame? Is it stuff that Steve Jobs would never approve in your opinion? Face id is a pretty incredible technology when you take the time to check what exactly it does in such a short amount of time. Hell i believe it is revolutionary in terms of interacting with your phone in a new way, something Steve was preaching everyday.

Would Steve Jobs be furious with apple watch as a product? is it something he would disapprove in utter disgust? Is it something completely different to his principles/philosophies in terms of technology and human interaction? I dont think so. Apple watch is easily a product Steve Jobs would want to roll out.

The only thing that I can think of that kind of derailed from SJ's principles is the software. Yes it became clunky, it became buggy and not as smooth as it once was. But that was fixed years ago. IOS 12 is the smoothest ios I ever used and that is coming from someone using an iphone6s. 6s is a 4 year old phone and with IOS12 it feels like it is last years model. Hell if SJ's was alive a lot of IOS features I think would not be approved by him. IOS would be even more restricting and spartan.

So yeah, I dont see how SJ would do so differently if he was here now and what exactly is so different with apple since he is gone. This is a legit question. Everybody acts as if this guy was tech Jesus. He was awesome, a pioneer and definitely a huge deal. But I honestly dont think apple is doing that much differently in terms of philosophy.

Your opinions/thoughts are most welcome.


macrumors 68020
Jul 16, 2013
The Netherlands
How can you question something everyone here agrees on? Join the Tim Cook hate! Steve was perfect! Everything used to be so much better!


macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2017
New York
I can sort of agree. The thing that Tim Cook might be missing is the persistence of Steve. To be blunt, Steve was a bit of a dick with his employees (if employee testimonials & movies are to be believed). Steve overall ran a much tighter ship IMO, which in turn resulted in less software & hardware issues.

Although, I have continued to use current generation Apple products and I have to say I have no complaints (software or hardware) The only concerning thing to me is how the new Macbooks were released. Clearly there were some major issues that were most likely apparent (I'm sure Apple tests their products with employees for a great deal of time before releasing) that mainly pertain to the keyboard. I would like to believe if Steve were around, the new keyboard would not have made it to the final product, or at least there would have been a fix way before the release.

Just a matter of opinion I guess. (not to mention Apple announcing products that they never talk about a year and a half later *airpower*)


macrumors 68020
Jul 25, 2016
The state of the Mac wasn’t so miserable in the Steve Jobs era. Sure, Macs never came cheap. But they were state of the art and not an afterthought. Buying a Mac was buying value for money. Can’t say that anymore under Tim Cook. And to be honest, every Apple products these days doesn’t give me value for money.

Sure the latest iPhones are nice, but there are so much more nice and well built phones on the market today which offer you so much more for far less money. For an example I can get a Samsung Galaxy S9 for €27 a month while the ancient iPhone 8 will cost me €42 a month. Really, there is no compelling reason to stay at Apple and their eco feels like an expensive trap.

Yes, I’m sour but slowly Apple made me sour since 2012. I had confidence in Tim Cook in the early years, but that totally eroded as he focuses on money first. He has proven he doesn’t care about bringing the best technology to peoples hands. Looking at the total mess in Apple’s hardware, I don’t think he understands technology at all.


macrumors newbie
Jan 2, 2018
I am a network engineer / programmer type, and enjoy the Unix feel of OS X, along with the power of Linux. I cannot do what I need to do with a tablet, as there are many cases that I need to take hardware out of a box, and set it up for Wireless access.

Apple feels different. I am convinced they don't give a damn about the techy computer guy that needs options.

I do not like how they retired things on their MacBook Pro line since 2012. I understand the departure of optical media, which is good, as servers and other items can boot off of USB, so I don't need to burn disks anymore. I use ethernet daily. HDMI daily. USB Mouse daily. And when I give presentations, I have to remember that my MBP 2013 doesn't support the Apple Clicker that my 2011 did.

Apple should have reserved the MacBook Air line for those who want to carry the thinnest laptop around, and kept the Pro series with ports and functionality. Apple should have kept removable RAM and Hard Disks, and not have custom screws requiring special tools to access the components.

I will not go beyond the 2015 MBP, as I want HDMI out of the box, and the ability to physically remove the hard disk. If Apple refuses to build something like this in the future, I may either seek the 2015 model out, or go Linux. My backup laptop is Linux, and will work just fine. Only real thing I will miss is texting from my desktop.

I do not think Apple's leadership is listening to this segment of consumers. The poor excuse of the Mac Pro. The over-priced and diminished current MBP. What is hip and trendy in the current lineup is of no interest to me.


macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 8, 2012
Thanks all for the replies.

I see some comments about the state of the Mac in general. While I do not have imo the necessary experience to form a more rounded opinion, since I only have a 2009Mac and a 2012 rmbp 15" , nevertheless I want to point out a few things, and please feel free to correct if I am wrong.

In regards especially to the Retina Macbook pro that I have, it was overseen by Steve and it was greenlight by him. And I see a similar pattern to what happens with Macbooks today.

2012 rmbp removed the optical drive, removed ethernet and other ports in similar fashion and ended up being more restricting than previous macbooks.

So again I dont think Steve Jobs was the kind of guy that was not favoring limitations in order to improve form and fashion to his products. Maybe he wasnt as adamant as Tim Cook is about this, but he certainly wasnt against it.

I will come back to mobile devices like the iphone and ipad. Those were extremely limited devices even during SJ's era. People were asking for a bigger screen for ages, and yet Steve Jobs required special deliberations to end up with iphone 5 increased size. It was his opinion (and a well respected one) that phones should be used in one hand.

But the competition went the other way, provided more functions/features and iphone users were asking for bigger screens.

I am saying all this just as a reminder, because quite frequently people make you think that while Steve was around everything was absolutely great for apple and iphone users were not making complaints or demanded changes. Changes that even went against SJ's philosophy.

From my perspective i see the following:

The iphone as a product is the best that has ever been by a considerable margin. Both in terms of hardware and software
The apple watch is an extremely well built hardware that screams Steve Jobs anyway you look at it.
The Ipad is also the best that has ever been. I am not talking just about specs now, I am talking about the overall experience using it, the features, the possibilities etc. Ipad was a mess a few years ago, not anymore.

For the state of Mac I cannot like I said form an accurate opinion since i have limited experience. But the software is moving in the right direction IMO and the performance gains in the last few iterations were an absolute blast for my rmbp 2012.

Mistakes certainly were made and apple is in a tight spot now, but as far as philosophy, quality of product, I dont see much being changed.

Steve Jobs made mistakes too.

Black Tiger

macrumors 6502
Jul 2, 2007
What’s changed? The keynotes and that’s about it. I think Tim’s salesmanship isn’t as good, but no one could compare to Steve. Every criticism levelled at Apple today is a rehash of the complaints of the Steve era: removing ports, high prices, walled ecosystem, proprietary tech, lack of upgradability, and so forth. There are past products under Steve that all suffered similar criticism. And some products are selling much better than under Steve. See: iPod HiFi vs HomePod; iCloud vs MobileMe. For that matter, based purely on sales, every product category is more successful and popular today than they were in 2011. This is true of the Mac, the iPad and the iPhones product lines.

I think people miss the Steve Jobs persona, and I do too. But the products are as great and/or flawed as they ever were. It is possible that Apple would be even more successful today we’re Steve around to sell the products still, but we will never know. Bottom line is that Apple has been on an ascent through both Steve’s return in 1997 and has continued until today under Tim and shows little sign of slowing.
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macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2016
Most importantly(IMHO).... company culture, which includes management style.
What has really changed for some is they are stuck in an idealised and often mythical past and they've closed their minds to inevitable change.

There was a drastic change in 1997 as well with a new CEO, and I doubt you'll find anyone who wanted to cling onto the-then-past.


macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 8, 2012
Most importantly(IMHO).... company culture, which includes management style.

There was a drastic change in 1997 as well with a new CEO, and I doubt you'll find anyone who wanted to cling onto the-then-past.

Well that is easy to say, because past 1997 Steve Jobs, Apple was nowhere near where it is now in terms of popularity so this is a completely unfair comparison. Steve didnt have to meet HUGE expectations of hundreds of millions of people and did not have a huge persona to follow. And keep in mind there were no social media the way they exist today and that plays a huge role as well. Compared to this, the pressure Tim had and still has, is incredible.
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