I agree. It is quite possible that by desktopS, he meant the two sizes of iMacs 🙂 Yuck city.
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What Tim says ......
- Thread starter one finger john
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I agree. It is quite possible that by desktopS, he meant the two sizes of iMacs 🙂 Yuck city.
dogslobber
macrumors 601
This is an iPhone rumors site!
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Consider yourself lucky then!
If you are looking for concrete, fact based, concise information on when the desk top line of computers will come out and what the exact specifications will be, then take a very deep breath and hold it until they come out.
Other than that, all I was trying to do was pass along some information that was new to me. I am not sorry for any clerical or forum mistakes. I think I will blame everything on my Mac G4 (2001) for everything that happened.
Oh, and Tim Cook too.
John
Other than that, all I was trying to do was pass along some information that was new to me. I am not sorry for any clerical or forum mistakes. I think I will blame everything on my Mac G4 (2001) for everything that happened.
Oh, and Tim Cook too.
John
What Tim says needs to be taken with a grain of salt because definitions can vary wildly.
I'm expecting Apple exclusive tech or tech that will strengthen their ecosystem before I'd expect bleeding edge mainstream stuff that every other manufacture or DIYer is already doing.
For example and this is purely just for conversation but the next iPhone is rumored with wireless charging. Years ago tech was demoed showing a device built into a monitor that could charge a device that was a few meters in front of it. Again, just talking out of my ass but that is an example of something I'd expect Apple to release in a desktop computer, then merely having your iPhone at your desk or in the same room and its charging.
Things like this is what leads to large profit because if you have an iPhone and need a computer you may be more willing to try out a Mac. People that already have Macs and iPhones will be more willing to update both. Meanwhile it also locks you into their ecosystem because its a feature you may not want to part with.
Honestly, I've over specs if the next iMac has a 7700k and GTX 1080 I could really care less. In reality that doesn't actually offer me much. Rarely have I been sitting at my iMac which is a 2013 with i5 3.4ghz, 775m with a 1tb HDD and said "I wish this thing was faster". Granted I wouldn't mind if it was faster especially with an SSD but not for 3000-4000 dollars to upgrade. However if it was moderately faster and had things that actually enhanced the quality of my life (wireless charging like mentioned above for example) I would be more on board with updating.
And while there is a portion of people that do want raw specs I think Apple knows they need more then that.
BTW My iMac does about 5-8 hours of video encoding every day. So I'm not just the type that surfs the web and checks email.
I want to see some REAL innovation, something new, something that makes me tell my friends "Dude the new Mac does XXX" and them actually be interested. Because no matter how fast it is there is ALWAYS a faster PC...ALWAYS.
I'm expecting Apple exclusive tech or tech that will strengthen their ecosystem before I'd expect bleeding edge mainstream stuff that every other manufacture or DIYer is already doing.
For example and this is purely just for conversation but the next iPhone is rumored with wireless charging. Years ago tech was demoed showing a device built into a monitor that could charge a device that was a few meters in front of it. Again, just talking out of my ass but that is an example of something I'd expect Apple to release in a desktop computer, then merely having your iPhone at your desk or in the same room and its charging.
Things like this is what leads to large profit because if you have an iPhone and need a computer you may be more willing to try out a Mac. People that already have Macs and iPhones will be more willing to update both. Meanwhile it also locks you into their ecosystem because its a feature you may not want to part with.
Honestly, I've over specs if the next iMac has a 7700k and GTX 1080 I could really care less. In reality that doesn't actually offer me much. Rarely have I been sitting at my iMac which is a 2013 with i5 3.4ghz, 775m with a 1tb HDD and said "I wish this thing was faster". Granted I wouldn't mind if it was faster especially with an SSD but not for 3000-4000 dollars to upgrade. However if it was moderately faster and had things that actually enhanced the quality of my life (wireless charging like mentioned above for example) I would be more on board with updating.
And while there is a portion of people that do want raw specs I think Apple knows they need more then that.
BTW My iMac does about 5-8 hours of video encoding every day. So I'm not just the type that surfs the web and checks email.
I want to see some REAL innovation, something new, something that makes me tell my friends "Dude the new Mac does XXX" and them actually be interested. Because no matter how fast it is there is ALWAYS a faster PC...ALWAYS.
I got a used 2012 i7 quad 2.6 mini a couple months ago and have dedicated it to video. It renders twice as fast as either my base 2012 mini or 2013 i7 MacBook Air. That is saving me a lot of time and also making the editing experience more pleasant.
The way things have worked out, each time I upgraded a Mac I got roughly twice the performance. For example, my 2008 MBP was twice as fast as my G5, my 2013 MacBook Air was twice as fast as the 2008 MacBook Pro and so forth (going all the way back to a Fat Mac 512 in 1985).
I get the feeling it may be quite a wait for a reasonably priced machine to double the 12,500 geekbench rating on my 2012 quad mini though. 😵
I'm not discounting the benefits of performance. However every 2014 and 2015 iMac i7 model I used fans ramp up while encoding, the 2014 would max out. Whereas my i5 chugs along at 85-90c at 1200 RPM aka silently. This is something I value since noise is more important to me then encode times.
You'll find me to be the minority around here. I HIGHLY value the experience. I want a good looking, quiet machine that does what I need as elegantly as possible. I don't want a computer that is fast but offends all my senses.
I came from a more powerful HP AIO that would ramp the fans up during a video conference call and people on the other end would whine....err I mean mention it. What kind of design is that? I feel like (or at least used to feel like) Apple would consider stuff like this. If a 4k camera (or whatever) buffers constantly, causes the fans to max out and has poor color representation then its just a spec to try convince you to buy it....not something that will actually benefit you in real world use.
Coming to an iMac for me was a breath of fresh air. Secure OS, minimal viruses and malware, quiet, no drivers for me personally to deal with, no defragging, reliable, etc etc...the whole package and while not as fast it was better in nearly every way that actually mattered to me.
This is what I think people overlook when comparing specs. Its like if you are comparing cars online....you might need to drive the Mercedes to realize what its offering that the competition isn't...the experience...
btw I don't have a mercedes, wish I did but don't.
fokmik
Suspended
So you need something new just to show off ?
Tim also said and im pretty sure this will happen for sure "a greater variety of I/O" so i guess the imac mac mini ir mac pro will not have ONLY USB-c/TB3 and thats a goodthing
How did you come to that conclusion?
Telling someone about something I legitimately think is cool, useful and benefits me in real life is far from showing off. At least in my opinion.
If they made your perfect Mac with whatever specs you wanted and you told a friend about it would you consider that "showing off"? Assuming your answer is no, thats how I feel.
I just want something to legitimately be excited about. If I wanted to show off I wouldn't go about it with a computer.
I agree. My computer, above all else, must be near silent. Very near.
Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. I'm not sure what I'll do when the next gen iMacs come out with the rumored 7700k. TDP is still the same as the 6700k (91). Without a redesign of the cooling system on the iMac nothing is going to change. And knowing Apple they arent going to compromise on size.
I'll wait for some reviews. I just hate the idea of paying a fortune to upgrade and the upgrade being noisier. To me thats paying for a downgrade.
Geez, that isn't a big deal for me personally. I think it actually soothes my tinnitus. 😀 But seriously, I can understand that. For everyday stuff I use a MacBook Air and it is completely silent unless I encode video or record for a long time in Logic Pro. But I now have the quad mini for that stuff, so I can just take the MBA into the other room. And if you think the Mini is loud when the fans kick in, let me tell you that the little 11" MBA is easily a match.
The quad mini reduced a 30 hour compressor export to 15 hours. I am legitimately excited about that. 🙂
I have long been a fan of silentpcreview.com 🙂 Low noise from a big slow fan is one thing, but the fans they put on say a high end video card are, to me, insanely loud and obnoxious. I have to leave the room. Good thing I am not into gaming at all, it would make my job of choosing/building a silent computer that much harder 🙂
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We are far from alone... silentpcreview.com 🙂 I am gonna test out the new Intel NUC's for quietness. The mini was good for quiet, but had insufficient cooling so tended to run hotter than I like. Fast, cool, SILENT and small, that is my goal 🙂
You make several good points that do have to be considered. The experience does matter, and it provides a different reason to get into the Mac environment. Before, I would happily sacrifice a little bit on the spec end for a mac over using a windows workstation. And I'd even pay a bit more, because the experience was just that much more fluid and enjoyable.
But, things have changed a little too much for that to still be the case. No one with half a brain is getting viruses in windows anymore, and I now have more driver issues with MacOS, believe it or not. Now, the high end macs are getting destroyed in the professional market. For general-medium use customers, you won't notice any difference really after a 2011 iMac - it'll still suit all of your needs just fine and handle even some semi-heavy tasks okay. But when the HP Z desktops are helping people finish 3D projects in 1/4 of the time of the highest specced Mac available; it becomes a problem. Especially when MacOS isn't offering any benefit over competing platforms, anymore. Really, the difference now is in the aluminum body. While I'd love for Apple to bring about more innovative aspects, they also have to play catch-up with specs at this point, because they're too far behind, and the professional market is jumping ship rapidly.
So a better comparison is - the Mac is the current $60,000 Mercedes SLK350, and any mid-range PC is the $30,000 Nissan 370z. The Mercedes logo looks nice and all , but that's all you're getting. The Z is built better, engineered better, performs better, handles better, much easier to modify, upgrade, and customize, shares a nice interior with numerous features, and it's 1/2 the price. While the old SLK from the 90's was far superior and a much better experience in every way than the 90's Z, it's just not the case now. And for the money of the Mercedes, you can get a used GTR and really be in a different league. And having experience with both, trust me, you don't wish you had a Mercedes, lol.
I'll be curious for your results. Seems like fast, cool, and silent is a bit of a unicorn in the computer world. Thats why I'm willing to compromise speed.
Thats the bottom of handbrake at the top and the top of my temp/fan monitor (TG Pro highly recommend btw) at the bottom with fan speed at the very bottom.
CPU is a i5-4670 which at the time was the fastest i5 available for the iMac (2013).
So at minimum fan speed temps are hovering at 80-85c currently (ambient is a disturbing 66.6f). Obviously I won't see any throttling and its running virtually silent. So during this process which will take about 2+ hours I can still use my iMac without being bothered or hear it from the other room.
It would be nice for it to be done faster but I'm in no rush because I don't have the next "project" ready for encoding anyway.
The TDP of this CPU is 84w. In my experience the 6700k is obviously hotter (and faster) causing the fans to ramp way up however its TDP is 91w. I wouldn't think that 7w would make THAT big of a difference. Maybe some people that do a lot of video encoding with their Macs can chime in with their experience. Maybe I'm just on the verge and anything above 84w is all it takes and 7w more is a lot...dont know.
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I tend to disagree. While I always regret using car analogies lets go with a Merc and GTR. And I don't know too much about Merc's reliability so lets just assume they are the same and a moot point.
The GTR is the pinnacle of engineering when it comes to speed. That is very reminiscent of my PC experience.
But that isn't all I'm looking for in a car (or computer). How does the bluetooth sound on the highway? How does it ride on a pot hole filled road? Does it have very supple leather heated seats? Does it offer any sort of a accident avoidance? How comfortable are the back seats? Is their any app for your phone that you can start the car on a cold day?
Thats how I feel about computers. Like my post above I'm willing to sacrifice speed for noise even though Apple themselves offers faster options.
Me, I am willing to sacrifice a dedicated video card for speed, silence, silent and small 🙂 I just have zero need for it. I broke form and ordered my Dell (who has always had very quiet computers) with a dedicated video card. Ouch. It was only a low end card but that fan had me insane. I yanked it out, tried to figure if I could replace the crappy dumbass 40mm fan inside Dell''s proprietary PSU with maybe a Noctua. Decided that would be too much work. Same wiht the somewhat proprietary case fan (yes, I was heartbroken to see that Dell had shipped my a computer with FOUR fans in it.) I think they have gone insane.
I then researched building my own for about a week solid. And came up with a nice mini-itx board and a couple of decent options for cases that were not $39 dollar crap. I know for a fact that Noctua fans are amazing having had a few. So I would use those, and get a PSU with a 120mm fan that only comes on at 30% or so power draw.
I surf (heavy) email, and build websites using SaaS software. Not much of a draw there. And with Intel's built in video getting better all the time, I will still be able to watch as many 4K YouTube videos as I want 🙂
I also have my eye on the new Intel NUC i7 Kaby Lake. Load that baby up with a nice Samsung 960 Pro 512-1TB and some Optane and I will have me a rocket sled 🙂
At this point would you consider yourself done with Macs? Maybe consider a hackintosh build?
I just realized I was in the Mac Mini section, for some reason I thought I was in the iMac section. Kind of changes everything and puts my ideas more inline with the posters I've been responding too, oh well apologies for that @MacStu09 . Your car analogy should have been a 60k GTR vs a 100k Fiesta..... lol
I am also be willing to ditch dedicated graphics. I'm sure I initially posted in this section hoping for a quad core Mini which It would mounted under the desk with a 34-38" ultra wide on the desk. 1440p ultra wide is more inline with my workload than 5k. This would be my dream setup however dual core as their current line up wouldn't cut it for me.
My last Mac mini, a 2012 with SSD put in by me, (way too hard, way). I liked it alot. Was disappointed by the 2014 release, not nearly as much as many on this forum, but a little for sure. I then had a 5K i5 and loved the heck out of that screen. But I get bored. And never did like all in ones. but that screen was something to behold. My Dell 4k suits me just fine. I then became un enamored with MacOS or whatever they are calling it these days. Same UI, same crappy 3 colored dots that are impossible to find with the mouse, and simultaneously, Win 10 started getting fairly good.
And I then really became un enamored with the insanely long waits for new releases of the mini in particular and all macs generally. Considered a Macbook Pro, but the lightbar does absolutely nothing for me.
And so, went back to Windows, which I never hated (used it for 20 years and made my living with it) and have been enjoying it to the extreme. A hackintosh is never for me. As far as I am concerned, the MacOS is dated and has seen better days. Why build something that cannot be properly updated? Ouch! I think the whole hackintosh thing is a super niche and practically dead. MacOS is just not worth the hassle. As a hobby, maybe.
And if I get bored with the whole thing, I have Ubuntu to revert to 🙂 LOL!
That's my story and I am sticking with it. It would be a hail mary for sure, but if Apple came out with some RESPECT for the mini, there is always a chance I could take another look at it. Also, I am oh so tired of their damn secrets about when and what will be updated. I get they want to keep features a big dark secret, but a timeline? I mean really, Apple, you are hemorrhaging good customers with these insane policies.
Tim's "We have many awesome things coming" speeches are like, the ramblings of a mad man.
Agreed. My thoughts on the Mini was it was a way to capture the potential Windows converts. Bring your own monitor, mouse and keyboard and get your feet wet.
The problem is the specs are so bad it a tough sale because its a downgrade for many Windows users. It seems like its for Apple fans only, and only the ones that don't care about specs at all.
I'm really hoping for a worthy update.
Count Blah
macrumors 68040
Better hope that mini holds up, because it won't be outperformed by another Mini, for MANY years to come - if EVER.
I understand what you're saying, it just unfortunately, isn't the case anymore. You don't have to sacrifice speed for noise, etc. It's all just trading features/performance/upgradeability for looks/size at this point. Apple is starting to fall behind in every regard, and that's my main problem with them. They have to start producing top tier products, because their would-be "trade-off features" are now also becoming features of competing products.
My main personal desktop is virtually silent, outside of long renders, in which even then, it's still quieter than my mac. And it outperforms it significantly. To make matters worse, my mac on the latest MacOS now drops my magic mouse bluetooth connection frequently, had a very weird graphics glitch after updating (still no idea what was up with that), completely stalls with large images in preview, and other various hiccups. It also lacks many of the features I'm now accustomed to.
GTR vs SLK isn't a good comparison for that argument, since the GTR is not simply a speed car: it's twice the tech, twice the luxuries, and a phenomenal ride. The 370z and SLK 350 were the closest car to computer argument without it becoming absurd. Because the price difference used to reflect the experience in the 90's and early 00's. But now? Both look good, both have very comfortable heated leather seats, both have great shock absorption, neither has back seats (GTR does), and both have pretty good sound systems. However, the Z has far more performance enhancing routes, cheaper maintenance, is a bit quicker, half the price, and is actually a little more insulated from outside sound than the Mercedes - though that's usually due to wearing gaskets from the retractable top on SLK's. Apple is at the point where you're now having to sacrifice just about everything for the tradeoff of looks and size; at a cost of almost twice anything comparative.
Is your desktop that you use for rendering the same size as the Mac? It's easy to get 2 of the 3. Small, quiet and slow is easy. Big, quiet and fast is easy. And small, loud and fast is easy. That's what I meant by a bit of a unicorn when trying to check all those boxes.
All of which are quite subjective depending on how much space you have and other aesthetics, how sensitive to noise you are and the speed required for the tasks you are doing.