What We Want to See in Leopard

[GodBless]

didn't one of the IT horror stories threads have a story about a woman who used the Trash bin as her place of storage for all of her files?

That is really humorous but at the same time I feel sorry for the person who lost all of her files.

The only reason why I would want to open a file that was in the Trash is so I can know for sure that the file I am deleting is the one I wanted to delete just before deleting it. That way I wouldn't accidentally drag the wrong file to the trash and delete it.

 

[mkrishnan]

The only reason why I would want to open a file that was in the Trash is so I can know for sure that the file I am deleting is the one I wanted to delete just before deleting it. That way I wouldn't accidentally drag the wrong file to the trash and delete it.

I do see what you're saying... I've pulled files out of the trash and checked them many a time. Very OCD of me, but, yeah....

 

[cleanup]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or is already possible:

A new application/utility that schedules system events for you. We can schedule startup and shutdown, but not much else (unless I'm sorely mistaken). There should be an app. called Scheduler (or, studying the names of past Apple apps, Secretary) that lets you schedule system tasks, or anything else possible (eg. running an application, starting a download, sending a prewritten email, receive mail, launch a webpage, log out, screen saver, sleep, send a file, log on to network, etc.).

Something of the sort would be extremely useful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Mac OS X has such an application.

 

[iMacZealot]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or is already possible:

A new application/utility that schedules system events for you. We can schedule startup and shutdown, but not much else (unless I'm sorely mistaken). There should be an app. called Scheduler (or, studying the names of past Apple apps, Secretary) that lets you schedule system tasks, or anything else possible (eg. running an application, starting a download, sending a prewritten email, receive mail, launch a webpage, log out, screen saver, sleep, send a file, log on to network, etc.).

Something of the sort would be extremely useful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Mac OS X has such an application.

You can already schedules wake-ups, start-ups, shut-downs, and sleeps in the Energy Saver panel in System Preferences. Just look for a "Schedule" button. It makes for a great alarm clock when you have to do something on your Mac early in the morning right when you wake up.

 

[mkrishnan]

Something of the sort would be extremely useful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Mac OS X has such an application.

Well, you're wrong and right. OS X does have such an application -- cron -- but it does not have a gui. It's a Unix daemon that has very powerful scheduling features for pretty much everything that can be launched from the command line, including automator scripts and applescripts and so on.

It would be great to see a GUI for it added...perhaps as part of automator?

There are GUIs available -- try Cronnix out.

Also, of course, the "alarm" for any event in iCal can be the running of a program or script. So you can also use this (and it *does* have a GUI) to accomplish what you want, mostly.

Although, admittedly, neither incorporates a way to wake the computer if it's sleeping, AFAIK. I guess the missing link would be something that automatically adds system auto-wake-up entries that correspond to these....I don't know if that exists or not?

 

[puckhead193]

being able to customize the dock

 

[GodBless]

I do see what you're saying... I've pulled files out of the trash and checked them many a time. Very OCD of me, but, yeah....

Well there are times that the file names of files are close together and I am not 100% sure which file is which so I have to drag it to a separate folder before I put it in the trash to make sure. This wastes time and could cause other problems and I could lose the file by accident. Also if I have 10+ things in the trash maybe I want to be sure I didn't delete the wrong things a few days later. What if I accidentally hit the delete button? How do I remember I purposefully deleted exactly 10 files last week? I may have only wanted to delete 9. This is why I want to open files in the Trash.

 

[aussie_geek]

I'd like to see an Apple uninstaller program. After an App is installed, it should tell the Finder where all of its files are. Run the uninstaller and there you go - it will remove all of the bits and pieces. Some apps really embed themselves into your System and Library folders and you have to go hunting to get rid of them.

Another little thing - hopefully Apple will fix this in Tiger - is the Get Info on an item. At the moment, you can have your Mac tell you info about items on your Desktop - they don't update properly.


aussie_geek

 

[GodBless]

I'd like to see an Apple uninstaller program. After an App is installed, it should tell the Finder where all of its files are. Run the uninstaller and there you go - it will remove all of the bits and pieces. Some apps really embed themselves into your System and Library folders and you have to go hunting to get rid of them.

Another little thing - hopefully Apple will fix this in Tiger - is the Get Info on an item. At the moment, you can have your Mac tell you info about items on your Desktop - they don't update properly.


aussie_geek

An uninstaller isn't that necessary since it is rare that a program has more than a preference file and occasionally a file or two distributed elsewhere with a drag and drop install.

However with a package install if a package could uninstall itself or something and maybe if there was an uninstaller manager which stored the package file and uninstalled it for you, then that would be cool. It would be one extra hassle though that we don't need since the Apps are bundled. With Windows it wouldn't work without an uninstaller.

 

[biohazard6969]

be able to set the desktop pictrure from a menu by control clicking a jpg, tiff or other image file

i always see myself doing this even though i know i can't

 

[cleanup]

be able to set the desktop pictrure from a menu by control clicking a jpg, tiff or other image file

i always see myself doing this even though i know i can't

Through Safari, as well. I found a great wallpaper (that I'm using anyways) but I had to drag and drop it to the desktop, THEN open System Preferences and browse to it. I should just be able to control click it in Safari and select "set as wallpaper/background" like in Windows.

An uninstall app would be very nice. Most professional programs (such as Office or Creative Suite) use an installer, and to uninstall, I hate having to manually search for all of its files (usually using Spotlight) and dragging them all to the trash. Some apps that use the VISEInstaller come with an Uninstall function, but Mac OS X should come with a native one, like in Windows.

I'd also like to see native theme support. I'm not about to shell out 20 bucks for Shapeshifter just to change the look of my GUI. Windows has a native msstyles format, and it worked when I used Windows. OSX should have something of a similar sort.

Apple should be reading this thread... then maybe they can advertise "500+" new features in Leopard.

 

[GodBless]

cleanup, it is obvious you came from the Windows world because many of your requests are unnecessary on the Mac and just cause more hassles then they are worth. Windows needs what you are asking for OS X to have. But to tell you the truth OS X doesn't need these things at all and that is what makes it better than Windows.

Through Safari, as well. I found a great wallpaper (that I'm using anyways) but I had to drag and drop it to the desktop, THEN open System Preferences and browse to it. I should just be able to control click it in Safari and select "set as wallpaper/background" like in Windows.

Apple's standard backgrounds should be all you need. And even if you don’t use an Apple background, having Safari menus clogged with something you will only use once (who changes their Desktop Background daily?) is a waste of space on the contextual menu.

 

[GodBless]

An uninstall app would be very nice. Most professional programs (such as Office or Creative Suite) use an installer, and to uninstall, I hate having to manually search for all of its files (usually using Spotlight) and dragging them all to the trash. Some apps that use the VISEInstaller come with an Uninstall function, but Mac OS X should come with a native one, like in Windows.

Never ever should we have uninstallers unless they are absolutely necessary! If you read this long, long document linked here,: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html, that talks in-depth about Apple's standards (try to find anything consistent and detailed about Windows programming standards and you will never find it) that programs should follow, then you will understand why it is unnecessary for 95%+ of Applications to have uninstall files. The reason why is because all you should have to do is drag the Application in the Application folder in the Trash. Who needs automation for a simple task?

For example imagine if we all had to uninstall all of the files that we make. Imagine if every document needed an uninstaller. Since this shouldn't happen then why should our Applications need an uninstaller? Why waste the time uninstalling a program when you don't need to? OS X makes it so you just drag the Application in the Application folder in the Trash and you are done. That's it! Apple has asked developers in the document I gave you to leave no files behind if possible (which is simple to do because of OS X's design).

The only files that should be left behind (and are supposed to be left behind) are the preference files which are all stored in the same place and are accessible if you absolutely have a true need in deleting them (who seriously has a need for this?). The reason why they are left behind is because if you decide to reinstall the Application then you will still have your preferences kept and you won't need to reconfigure them.

Also if you do an update by replacing an old version of with a new version of the same Application, you won't lose your preferences if you overwrite it since the preferences are not stored in the Application file itself. The preference file is really the only file that Apple asks to be stored outside of the Application file that is located in the Application folder. (You might not know that if you right-click (of control+click with a one button mouse) on an Application file in the Application folder and click on the show "package contents" contextual menu option you can see the files within the Application file (which should be everything that the program has except for the preference file). This is why all you need to do is delete the file to uninstall the Application because the Application contains all of the files it needs to run. With Windows a program installer installs the files in many random places and if the program didn't have an uninstaller then you wouldn't be able to find half of the files that belonged to the program and if you installed and uninstalled things often then your hard drive would fill up fast.)

For an Evaluation program on the Mac it installs a file and hides a file as well as it can (although it is easy to find just about any file on a Mac because of how nicely Apple designed OS X) so that if you try to start the trial over again it won't work. However, these files are small so it doesn't matter that they are still on the system. Because of this an uninstaller is almost never necessary.

All that I can see a use for an uninstaller is if there are fonts that are installed in the font folder or other things that the whole system uses in every program. And to tell you the truth even you said it Office and Creative Suite do have an uninstaller and the reason why is because they install files that other programs use and those files are stored outside of the Application files in the Application folder . Not many other programs need an uninstaller though because they don't install things that the whole system uses.

 

[GodBless]

I'd also like to see native theme support. I'm not about to shell out 20 bucks for Shapeshifter just to change the look of my GUI. Windows has a native msstyles format, and it worked when I used Windows. OSX should have something of a similar sort.

More inconsistency causes problems. Apple's consistent and standard theme is are already beautiful who needs something different if it is already as good as it gets? Apple should first work on something it actually needs before it enhances something that is already good enough. Inconsistency makes things hard to use. Why do you think Windows is so terrible? It is because it has no standards. It is truly inconsistent.

Apple should be reading this thread... then maybe they can advertise "500+" new features in Leopard.

I do somewhat agree with you here, but please don't post things like you did that Apple won't be able to use. I can tell that you are still learning about OS X, so I won't be too hard on you, but please ask questions about why OS X is different than Windows before you make conclusions on what Leopard needs.

We can help Apple with the thread, but if you think about it they know the OS better than we do because they designed absolutely everything that is in it. I am 100% certain that they will give us great features and much more than Long and Horny (yes pun intended and I am referring to Longhorn) will have. I think Tiger will even beat Longhorn knowing Windows design team's flaws.

 

[GodBless]

be able to set the desktop pictrure from a menu by control clicking a jpg, tiff or other image file

i always see myself doing this even though i know i can't

I seriously think that this is a waste of contextual menu space.

 

[savar]

If you click on the icon at the top of the Finder window (in the title bar) while holding down Apple-Option, you can drop it in Terminal to get the path, or you can drop it in Finder to create an alias, etc. The same technique works in other applications too (you can do this with the document icon in the titlebar of TextEdit). But it's touchy -- sometimes when I click, it doesn't work.

Nope. If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, no modifier keys are necessary. The trick is that (for whatever reason, I can't think of a good one off hand), you have to click-and-hold on the icon for about a second. When the icon goes dark, then you can drag it.

As for not being able to use Expose, its probably because you're holding down modifier keys while dragging. I just tested it and I can use expose just fine when dragging the icon from the title bar of a window. If I drag it into Terminal.app it inserts the full path to that directory followed by a space. This is what you wanted, no?

 

[mkrishnan]

Nope. If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, no modifier keys are necessary. The trick is that (for whatever reason, I can't think of a good one off hand), you have to click-and-hold on the icon for about a second. When the icon goes dark, then you can drag it.

As for not being able to use Expose, its probably because you're holding down modifier keys while dragging. I just tested it and I can use expose just fine when dragging the icon from the title bar of a window. If I drag it into Terminal.app it inserts the full path to that directory followed by a space. This is what you wanted, no?

Ahhh, thanks a lot. This really helps!

 

[Flying Llama]

Never ever should we have uninstallers unless they are absolutely necessary! If you read this long, long document linked here,: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html, that talks in-depth about Apple's standards (try to find anything consistent and detailed about Windows programming standards and you will never find it) that programs should follow, then you will understand why it is unnecessary for 95%+ of Applications to have uninstall files. The reason why is because all you should have to do is drag the Application in the Application folder in the Trash. Who needs automation for a simple task?

[SNIP]

Well, since this is a unix OS, some of us aren't just installing nice and pretty cocoa apps. Unfortunately, there are MANY apps that require the use of an X window manager to run. These apps install many little files all over you system (/usr/bin etc), you can't just drag the executable to the trash. And even if you could, I NEED to have piece of mind that it got completely uninstalled, with no traces left. (Like the receipt in /Library/Receipts, the preference files etc. Again, this is for piece of mind...) This sort of applies to cocoa apps too. I am sure that one day, almost everyone will be using pretty cocoa apps, until then we, or at-least I, need an uninstaller. Just MHO.

llama

 

[EGT]

Unfortunately, there are MANY apps that require the use of an X window manager to run. These apps install many little files all over you system (/usr/bin etc), you can't just drag the executable to the trash. And even if you could, I NEED to have piece of mind that it got completely uninstalled, with no traces left. (Like the receipt in /Library/Receipts, the preference files etc. Again, this is for piece of mind...) This sort of applies to cocoa apps too. I am sure that one day, almost everyone will be using pretty cocoa apps, until then we, or at-least I, need an uninstaller. Just MHO.

llama

I don't know anything about the technical side of applications like this, but i agree in theory . It's a good idea to only have to drag an app to the trash and that's it deleted.

No mess, no fuss.

 

[aussie_geek]

Well, since this is a unix OS, some of us aren't just installing nice and pretty cocoa apps. Unfortunately, there are MANY apps that require the use of an X window manager to run. These apps install many little files all over you system (/usr/bin etc), you can't just drag the executable to the trash. And even if you could, I NEED to have piece of mind that it got completely uninstalled, with no traces left. (Like the receipt in /Library/Receipts, the preference files etc. Again, this is for piece of mind...) This sort of applies to cocoa apps too. I am sure that one day, almost everyone will be using pretty cocoa apps, until then we, or at-least I, need an uninstaller. Just MHO.

llama

Well said llama. I tried to talk about the same point in my post #133. I am in the same boat as you - if something is to be deleted - ALL of it must go. If you are a person that likes to try new apps and don't like some of them, the peace of mind knowing that all of it has been removed sets my mind at rest.

It would be a simple addition to the OS - the uninstaller program would access some type of list that was created by the app on install. The file locations would be stored in the list enabling for easy removal of the lot in one go


aussie_geek

 

[aussie_geek]

Sound please

Another thing that could be included is the re-vamp of UI sound effects. I know there are haxies out there that can do it now but you risk having conflicts within OSX.

Back in the old days of OS9, it was good to hear some sounds when you launch an app or open / close some windows. It made it feel more of a 'Techy' experience.

Or perhaps I am such a geek and I like that kind of stuff...

aussie_geek

 

[EGT]

Another thing that could be included is the re-vamp of UI sound effects. I know there are haxies out there that can do it now but you risk having conflicts within OSX.

Back in the old days of OS9, it was good to hear some sounds when you launch an app or open / close some windows. It made it feel more of a 'Techy' experience.

Or perhaps I am such a geek and I like that kind of stuff...

aussie_geek

Ohhh yes, that'd be great! Don't like doing things with haxies Has to be built in native OS stuff

 

[mkrishnan]

Or perhaps I am such a geek and I like that kind of stuff...

Well, maybe. But I did always wonder why Apple keeps the source column in the sound effects prefs pane, even though every sound effect is "built in" and there is no mechanism to add more, unless you use a haxie kind of thing.

 

[GodBless]

Ohhh yes, that'd be great! Don't like doing things with haxies Has to be built in native OS stuff

I think that it would be pointless for Apple to include extra unnecessary options like customizable sound effects for endless different things. If the system already has alert sounds, or an interface nothing else is needed. Who needs pointless customization if what is there is already good enough?

 

[GodBless]

Thank you everyone who responded here to my thread. Now I know most of the things that need to be in Leopard.