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Whats better than Dreamweaver

M

mm1250

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 3, 2007
327
43
Hello,

I've been using Dreamweaver for some time now. I just switched to the Mac and i'm going to have to buy the Mac version I guess, but lately i've been getting a little board with Dreamweaver. I want to know if there are any better products than dreamweaver. Before Dreamweaver I used to use frontpage (cough!!). I have a little HTML knowledge but I got used to the WYSIWUG feature.

I manage about 5 commerical websites and really looking for a new change.

Is Dreamweaver still the best out there or is there better? what are the pro designers using?
 
Well I think for Pro most do a lot of hand coding in text editors rather than using a WYSIWYG editor. I haven't found one that doesn't muck up my code formatting (including Dreamweaver) so I've stuck with text editors like BBEdit. I also do a bit of XML so it does nicely. I use to use Nvu a little, but they stopped working on it after version 1.0, and it messed up my code formatting so left it behind.

Some people have suggested Coda and RapidWeaver as options, but they didn't fit my needs personally, but to each his/her own.
 
mm1250 said:
Hello,

I've been using Dreamweaver for some time now. I just switched to the Mac and i'm going to have to buy the Mac version I guess, but lately i've been getting a little board with Dreamweaver. I want to know if there are any better products than dreamweaver. Before Dreamweaver I used to use frontpage (cough!!). I have a little HTML knowledge but I got used to the WYSIWUG feature.

I manage about 5 commerical websites and really looking for a new change.

Is Dreamweaver still the best out there or is there better? what are the pro designers using?
Click to expand...

Dreamweaver is still the best but its missing some features that some of the open source/freeware have, but i really suggest you learn html, it will make your life a lot easier
 
angelwatt said:
Well I think for Pro most do a lot of hand coding in text editors rather than using a WYSIWYG editor. I haven't found one that doesn't muck up my code formatting (including Dreamweaver) so I've stuck with text editors like BBEdit. I also do a bit of XML so it does nicely. I use to use Nvu a little, but they stopped working on it after version 1.0, and it messed up my code formatting so left it behind.

Some people have suggested Coda and RapidWeaver as options, but they didn't fit my needs personally, but to each his/her own.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, in my office we have plenty of web programmers and 1 (very old copy of Dreamweaver) I think the only time Dreamweaver is used is for mock ups.

Learn to hand code, most professionals don't bother with WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver.
 
Leave Dreamweaver

If you're switching, don't bother buying Dreamweaver. Leaving WYSIWYG is kinda slow and hard at first, but soon enough you begin to appreciate the control over your sites. Dreamweaver is bloated, and there are much better text editors available, some free, some not, but all less than $100.
 
I recently switched to Mac, and bought Dreamweaver. I use the WYSIWYG part of it for easier things that can tend to be repetitive (links, images, ect.) and use code for the rest. I don't see the problem with it, but I do recommend you use HTML. I haven't found a better replacement...
 
Quite simply, no.

There is nothing better than Dreamweaver for WYSIWYG.

If you want to learn to do it by hand, there are some good and even great alternatives.
 
You can't get a better WYSIWYG editor for Mac OS X. And besides, you probably already know it inside and out so it wouldn't be worth learning another editor that doesn't offer anymore features.
 
It always cracks me up when I hear people say you're not a "professional" if you use a wysiwyg tool. I've been using wysiwyg's since probably before Pagemill, then Golive and eventually Dreamweaver. Yeah, none were perfect but I could crank out look and feel's pretty quick and eventually produce the final product at both large and small companies I worked at. I truly believe in the left brain/right brain talent of people and almost to a tee, I would see horrendous *looking* websites by good hand coders/developers I worked with but we could actually team up to build some great web apps (back end -- front end). That being said, knowing the hand code (split screen in DW) is a must for fine tuning...
 
TuckBodi said:
It always cracks me up when I hear people say you're not a "professional" if you use a wysiwyg tool. I've been using wysiwyg's since probably before Pagemill, then Golive and eventually Dreamweaver. Yeah, none were perfect but I could crank out look and feel's pretty quick and eventually produce the final product at both large and small companies I worked at. I truly believe in the left brain/right brain talent of people and almost to a tee, I would see horrendous *looking* websites by good hand coders/developers I worked with but we could actually team up to build some great web apps (back end -- front end). That being said, knowing the hand code (split screen in DW) is a must for fine tuning...
Click to expand...

Agreed. Although I use it as a tool, not a way to create. It makes it very nice to FTP, and preview in DW. I do not use any of the automated tools to create CSS, I do it all by hand. But it's nice to hit control apple u, and it loads to the server. Preview is nice for adding boring content, because lets face it who wants to <P> tag 27 paragraphs??? If you are, you're just wasting your time.
 
TuckBodi said:
It always cracks me up when I hear people say you're not a "professional" if you use a wysiwyg tool.
Click to expand...

Agreed. A true professional knows how to be efficient with their time, which rarely applies if you hand-code everything. It's all very well having complete control, but if the cost of that is the project taking 5x the man hours, most people would go for a compromise. Something which DW is very good at with its excellent coding mode.

The key isn't to "design" sites with DW as such, more to use it as a tool to assist with laborious things like keeping files organised, making links etc. I tend to spend most of my time in the code screen, using design mode as like a "soft" preview and for certain tasks which are quicker there (links / paragraphs / basic tags)

I've also yet to see another web design package (WYSIWYG or not) which has the power of DW's template and library functionality. Being able to adjust the design of every page of your entire corporate website in one go = win.
 
Cloudane said:
Agreed. A true professional knows how to be efficient with their time, which rarely applies if you hand-code everything. It's all very well having complete control, but if the cost of that is the project taking 5x the man hours, most people would go for a compromise. Something which DW is very good at with its excellent coding mode.

The key isn't to "design" sites with DW as such, more to use it as a tool to assist with laborious things like keeping files organised, making links etc. I tend to spend most of my time in the code screen, using design mode as like a "soft" preview and for certain tasks which are quicker there (links / paragraphs / basic tags)

I've also yet to see another web design package (WYSIWYG or not) which has the power of DW's template and library functionality. Being able to adjust the design of every page of your entire corporate website in one go = win.
Click to expand...

BINGO!
 
In terms of web design; the best way to do anything is to learn XHTML & CSS. I know it sounds boring, but once you have it will make your life sooo much easier its unfunny. My suggestion is to drop Dreamweaver (its horrid) and get a nice book on HTML and/or CSS.

In terms of apps;

Coda > All.
 
I reiterate: knowing XHTML and CSS (and PHP) already myself, Dreamweaver is an excellent assistant for writing it. In code view, you lose nothing and gain several shortcuts, not to mention the very powerful template functionality.

To each his own though :)
 
ChicoWeb said:
BINGO!
Click to expand...

Not really. A professional cares about semantics and markup just as much as being efficient. Using a powerful text editor like Textmate doesn't require you to enter the paragraph tag 27 times. In fact, I can wrap 27 lines of code with an opening and closing paragraph tag much faster than you can in dreamweaver. Select all lines and then ctrl-cmd-shift-w.

Using a text editor does not mean typing everything out by hand. Most power user editors these days have hundreds of time saving keyboard shortcuts and tab commands that modify/output code exactly how you want it. How do you edit the end of 50 lines of text that don't line up exactly in dreamweaver? You probably would have to work line by line. In textmate, you can edit the end of multiple lines at the same time in addition to the standard column editing.

You absolutely would not get hired at Apple, for example, if you used a WYSIWYG editor to generate markup. You wouldn't get hired where I work either. 97% of the developers (front-end and back-end) here use textmate, and 100% use a text editor. No Dreamweaver on any of the computers over here.
 
Shadow said:
In terms of web design; the best way to do anything is to learn XHTML & CSS. I know it sounds boring, but once you have it will make your life sooo much easier its unfunny. My suggestion is to drop Dreamweaver (its horrid) and get a nice book on HTML and/or CSS.

In terms of apps;

Coda > All.
Click to expand...

Coda is a great dreamweaver alternative (for those who hand-code in dreamweaver). I love the app, but as far as text editing goes, it's just not powerful enough (at least compared to textmate) for me. I bought it and try to use it on personal projects, but always end up going back to textmate. :eek: But I do recommend Coda for most people trying to get into web development and are looking for a dreamweaver alternative.
 
Cloudane said:
I reiterate: knowing XHTML and CSS (and PHP) already myself, Dreamweaver is an excellent assistant for writing it. In code view, you lose nothing and gain several shortcuts, not to mention the very powerful template functionality.

To each his own though :)
Click to expand...

Some people don't understand the concept of time=money. Dreamweaver saves me money. I know html and css...I still use CSSEdit and Dreamweaver for most things, because, well, it makes the most of my time.
 
I find it curious that some "professionals" eschew WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver and GoLive, that should in theory produce reliable sites faster than coding by hand, and the integrated tools for creating graphical sitemaps, setting up CSS, uploading, etc... are extremely useful.

Is this because those professionals know how to hand-code and are simply being snobbish about it, or is it because there's some inherent virtue in manually typing pages of code?

I've been using various versions of GoLive since the late 90's to build websites and the results have always been excellent.
I guess I'm failing to see the fundamental difference between formatting a brochure layout in InDesign, and formatting a website in GoLive or Dreamweaver.
ie: you set up the document visually, and the application inserts the appropriate tags.
 
radiantm3 said:
Not really. A professional cares about semantics and markup just as much as being efficient. Using a powerful text editor like Textmate doesn't require you to enter the paragraph tag 27 times. In fact, I can wrap 27 lines of code with an opening and closing paragraph tag much faster than you can in dreamweaver. Select all lines and then ctrl-cmd-shift-w.

Using a text editor does not mean typing everything out by hand. Most power user editors these days have hundreds of time saving keyboard shortcuts and tab commands that modify/output code exactly how you want it. How do you edit the end of 50 lines of text that don't line up exactly in dreamweaver? You probably would have to work line by line. In textmate, you can edit the end of multiple lines at the same time in addition to the standard column editing.

You absolutely would not get hired at Apple, for example, if you used a WYSIWYG editor to generate markup. You wouldn't get hired where I work either. 97% of the developers (front-end and back-end) here use textmate, and 100% use a text editor. No Dreamweaver on any of the computers over here.
Click to expand...

Why does it matter what program you use? That's just complete BS. Are you telling me I'm not a professional because I use Dreamweaver and you're 1337 because you use TextEdit. Big Deal. I could do it in TextEdit if I wanted too, I have Coda, but I always go back to Dreamweaver. And If you read my post from above, I still create everything by hand, I don't generate anything besides mundane Hrefs, Img, etc, but never layout markup. Are you telling me TextEdit can make those any better?

It's like saying the only way to drive from New York to LA is by Ford Truck.

As a matter of fact I turned down a job at Apple and Macromedia 3 years ago. But thanks.
 
ChicoWeb said:
Why does it matter what program you use? That's just complete BS. Are you telling me I'm not a professional because I use Dreamweaver and you're 1337 because you use TextEdit. Big Deal. I could do it in TextEdit if I wanted too, I have Coda, but I always go back to Dreamweaver. And If you read my post from above, I still create everything by hand, I don't generate anything besides mundane Hrefs, Img, etc, but never layout markup. Are you telling me TextEdit can make those any better?
Click to expand...

ditto. In a way some hand-coders like to feel like they've 'evolved.' The flaw there is assuming people who use dreamweaver don't already know how to hand-code.
 
Just to add a little humor, though relevant, to this run-on discussion I remembered some lines from the Matrix;

From: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/the_matrix_script/index01.htm
Neo: Do you always look at it encoded?

Cypher: Well you have to. The image translators work for the construct program. But there's way too much information to decode the Matrix. You get used to it. I...I don't even see the code. All I see is blonde, brunette, red-head. Hey, you uh... want a drink?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying when I'm hand coding I necessarily see the whole layout or a red box here and blue box there, but not far from it. Though as a note so it's clear I have nothing against professionals who use DreamWeaver or other WYSIWYG programs nor the hand coders obviously.
 
I guess people just find different tools easier.

Alternatively I could use one of my really bad analogies (hand coding = Linux style "exercising your brain", Dreamweaver = Mac style "already know it, nothing to prove, would rather save time *and* get decent results") but I'd only get slated for it being a bad analogy :D
 
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