Whats better than Dreamweaver

[radiantm3]

Why does it matter what program you use? That's just complete BS. Are you telling me I'm not a professional because I use Dreamweaver and you're 1337 because you use TextEdit. Big Deal. I could do it in TextEdit if I wanted too, I have Coda, but I always go back to Dreamweaver. And If you read my post from above, I still create everything by hand, I don't generate anything besides mundane Hrefs, Img, etc, but never layout markup. Are you telling me TextEdit can make those any better?

It's like saying the only way to drive from New York to LA is by Ford Truck.

As a matter of fact I turned down a job at Apple and Macromedia 3 years ago. But thanks.

It really doesn't matter what program you use. I don't use a plain text editor because it makes me feel special or elite. I use it because I'm most efficient with it and I have full control over everything I do. I'm not saying professionals don't use Dreamweaver. I'm just saying there are better tools out there if they are willing to take that leap.

I used dreamweaver for about 5 years and started with it when it was first bought by Macromedia. I used to say dreamweaver was the fastest and best way to build websites as well. But that was before I REALLY learned html and css. I moved on to software that's makes me even more efficient and gives me more control since I know what I'm doing much more than I did in the past. Dreamweaver makes you lazy and messy code can result. I even took a quick peak at the source code on your homepage and found a common problem that occurs when you use dreamweaver in design view:

<p> </p>
<p> </p>

You probably hit return a few times and resulted in empty paragraph tags. I'm not trying to criticize your code in any way, I'm just making a point about dreamweaver.

Programs like Dreamweaver aren't the most efficient way of working. Dreamweaver is designed for designers who aren't very good at writing their own code. Sure anyone can use it, but that's the primary target. Apps like Textmate are designed for people who know how to code and builds upon that notion.

 

[ChicoWeb]

<p> </p>
<p> </p>

LOL, Touche!

 

[bigdaddymac]

How about folks looking for "drag and drop" web design programs? What's the best one out there for those with very limited to no html knowledge?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Can anyone recommend a good beginner's guide to HTML? I tend to design based on aesthetics and layout, so I've always used WYSIWYG editors like Freeway and Dreamweaver. I know I need to learn what the code means. A bunch of boring text is just going to put me to sleep, so if anyone could point me in the direction of well written guide, I'd appreciate it greatly.

I've always like the Visual Quickstart books. Any thoughts on this one?

 

[Glaxx]

For learning basic HTML and CSS, I went to W3Schools. Their tutorials and live editor work wonders for learning what things to in HTML.

 

[Cult Follower]

I guess people just find different tools easier.

Alternatively I could use one of my really bad analogies (hand coding = Linux style "exercising your brain", Dreamweaver = Mac style "already know it, nothing to prove, would rather save time *and* get decent results") but I'd only get slated for it being a bad analogy

I agree, nice analogy.

 

[Carl Spackler]

For learning basic HTML and CSS, I went to W3Schools. Their tutorials and live editor work wonders for learning what things to in HTML.

I'll start here. Thank you.

 

[seditives]

i dont see why people buy this software, as long as you know html why don't you just write up a website in not pad (in html) then save it as a html file upload it to a website such as webs.com there u have it a free easy way to make a website please comment if iam just being silly

 

[DaReal_Dionysus]

Oh yes the ongoing debate of hand coders vs. dreamweaver lingers on. The over all fact of the is that "Dreamweaver", no matter what anyone says is the standard in the industry. Just like Maya is to 3D and Avid to video editing. If you go to any major companies like Disney, Universal or other major production studio you will see Dreamweaver as the standard there for their respected departments. This view of Dreamweaver being "bad" or "blowed" is just ridiculous. You can hand code in dreamweaver just like any other text editor and you can take advantage of the many feature that dreamweaver offers.

The bottom line is Dreamweaver is the standard.
Learn to hand code and use Dreamweaver.

That will give you the best of both worlds.

Neon

PS. This is that same nonsense that people say on here that flash is going away. No it will evolve to incorporate H264 properly and will incorporate its self to run with HTML5. Don't listen to the garbage it's all nonsense. I have heard the argument that it's bad to use quicktime on websites. Yet tons of fortune 500 companies use it on there websites. Once again don't listen to the garbage. Learn what you can and everything you can.

 

[dkotter]

I learned XHTML and CSS by doing it all by hand just using TextEdit, then evolved to using Espresso, and now I'm using Dreamweaver. I still use Espresso occasionally, but for creating dynamic HTML sites, Dreamweaver saves me a bunch of time, using their built-in tools for working with databases, the Binding panel, Servor Behaviors, etc.

 

[petsk]

Learn to hand code and use Dreamweaver.

That will give you the best of both worlds.

Well said. I'm a professional since many years back and I do exactly this, though I use Golive instead of Dreamweaver. And I do this because it makes me more efficient and not because I don't know html or css. I save time wish for me is money.

WYSIWYG gives me a nice overview of the output wish lets me jump somewhere in the code in a fast way instead of looking through line after line of code just to find the spot I'm looking for.

99% of the actually programming is still done by hand. Except for CSS, where I use the Golive CSS editor for at least 70% of all CSS coding, it's just a lot faster than doing it by hand.

 

[Les Kern]

It's like a cult.

10-4
Reminds me of the insufferable Linux users who somehow feel they can pan my efforts using a Mac exclusively and that I am some kind of dolt if I don't just LOVE their silly OS to death.
HAND CODE?!?!?!
It's all about productivity. I know several pros and NONE of them "just" hand code anything. Sure, they manipulate code by hand on occasion, but nothing but NOTHING is faster than DW from the start of a project to the finish, and time, my friends, is money. And for the budding pro, no need to learn ANY html or CSS. Just download a free CSS template and play. Bet they can make a decent site faster than some guy on text edit.

HAND CODE?!?!?

 

[doug in albq]

...I use a metal chisel and a stone tablet to hammer-out my code...

"Who needs modern tools if you are good with a chisel and stone tablet"
--a famous code-monkey


but really, Dreamweaver is the best and it is still terrible!

come on, Adobe, OR SOMEONE ELSE, and make a really great web design/development tool.

(Imagine if we hand-coded .psd files...oh the productivity and creativity losses that would occur)

 

[DaReal_Dionysus]

Finally, some professionals on here that speak the truth!!! I have had this debate before and certain people would try to argue the point that dreamweaver isn't the standard when it really is. Now the forum (as of late) has begun to increase it's numbers in people who actually know what they are talking about. The facts of the development world are as follows:

Hand coding: is mostly for server side Language like PHP, ASP and so on. However, Dreamweaver is a text editor and does much more that any other web development program on the market. Why be set to one style of development when dreamweaver will allow you to do it all.

Flash: Everyone keeps saying it's going away, well thats wrong!!! It will evolve like dreamweaver has evolved and no matter what anyone says in this forum, to many fortune 500 companies use it to simply eliminate it.

W3C Standard vs Not following the standard: W3C is complete and utter garbage. Their standards are lifeless and do nothing to help the industry progress to a higher standard. as long as you get the results the client is trying to achieve and the "return on investment" for the client is received properly then the standard can blow off.

Websites are about Marketing and features that allow for the client to earn profitability in the business. Use all the tools necessary to complete the project to 100% gratification of the client and you will be successful. Dreamweaver will help achieve that.

Good luck,
Neon

 

[Jason Beck]

I am engaged in a bachelors degree program in college and am done
with my first year, made the dean's list (yay), and have a 3.9 GPA.
I started out with Rapidweaver. It is truly awesome if you don't know
a lot of coding. However after a year of being in school I have been
outgrowing it rapidly and can't wait till I start my Dreamweaver classes.
The school gave me Creative Suit CS4 Design Premium and it rocks!

I did my site Appleskills in Rapidweaver, the blog and albums are easy
to use and do have some quirks that after you learn it is easier to use.
I can honestly say though in a few months my site will be totally overhauled
and redone in Dreamweaver.

Adobe is great, and Rapidweaver was a good stepping stone. I would
recommend it to anyone wanting to get something decent started.

You will outgrow it though if you are serious about design. I know a bit
of html and java, and can't wait for my second wave of classes start that
get into the real meat of design. =)

I tried iWeb.. but the blog plugin worked better in rapidweaver imho.
Rapidblog, I don't use.. just the built in blogger plug.

Dreamweaver is the mac daddy of them all though imo. I used it waaaayy
back in the day. And can't wait to start her up this time. Just finished
my introduction to inDesign class. That was cool!

 

[decksnap]

This thread is old! I bet I said the same thing in the beginning of it that I'm saying now - just because you can hand-code doesn't make you special, or too good for dreamweaver. I code 95% by hand and still use Dreamweaver daily.

 

[elppa]

W3C is complete and utter garbage. Their standards are lifeless and do nothing to help the industry progress to a higher standard.

Websites are about Marketing and features

Some interesting opinions here, but you shouldn't present it as fact, because it doesn't hold for all cases.

 

[eto]

W3C Standard vs Not following the standard: W3C is complete and utter garbage. Their standards are lifeless and do nothing to help the industry progress to a higher standard. as long as you get the results the client is trying to achieve and the "return on investment" for the client is received properly then the standard can blow off.

I lol'd.....

accessible well-structured and semantic markup is such a joke right? I mean, who are they trying to kid?

Just slop it together man! Clients won't know the difference.

/sarcasm

 

[DaReal_Dionysus]

Some interesting opinions here, but you shouldn't present it as fact, because it doesn't hold for all cases.

Sure it does and theres no way around that.

 

[angelwatt]

Sure it does and theres no way around that.

Except if it was true then IE6 would have everything right. Firefox shook up things by following these "garbage" standards and has allowed the Internet to move beyond IE6.

 

[Cabbit]

Standards compliant and accessible code is a must for me and Dreamweaver does not do accessibility code.

Dreamweaver table spat out

<table cellpadding="5" cellspaceing="3">
	<tr>
		<th>Province</th>
		<th>Males 18-35</th>
		<th>Males 36-51</th>
		<th>Females 18-35</th>
		<th>Females 36-51</th>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td>Nova Scotia</td>
		<td>12.4%</td>
		<td>8%</td>
		<td>7.7%</td>
	</tr>
</table>

Hand coded table that my text reader loves. While possible to do in Dreamweaver it is unlikely that as one of the posters says if it looks nice why bother hand coding it.

<table cellpadding="5" cellspaceing="3" summery="Fig 1.1: Unemployment figures in 1994">
	<caption align="bottom">Fig 1.1: Unemployment figures in 1994</caption>
	<tr>
		<th scope="col">Province</th>
		<th scope="col">Males 18-35</th>
		<th scope="col">Males 36-51</th>
		<th scope="col">Females 18-35</th>
		<th scope="col">Females 36-51</th>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td scope="row">Nova Scotia</td>
		<td>12.4%</td>
		<td>8%</td>
		<td>7.7%</td>
	</tr>
</table>

Note: My text reader can't find every spelling mistake if there are any.

 

[ChicoWeb]

This thread got beamed back from 2007. ROFLCOPTERBBQ

 

[Cabbit]

This thread got beamed back from 2007. ROFLCOPTERBBQ

Oh dear i thought it was current since it was a front pager.

ROFLCOPTERBBQ what is this an abbreviation of? I am just hearing gibberish.

 

[Thirteenva]

i dont see why people buy this software, as long as you know html why don't you just write up a website in not pad (in html) then save it as a html file upload it to a website such as webs.com there u have it a free easy way to make a website please comment if iam just being silly

Dreamweaver has tons of time saving features for front-end coding... If all you've ever used is the wysiwyg then you're missing most of the app.

In fact, at work we have probably never opened the wysiwyg, because the way our ASP.net app is coded, the wysiwyg won't render custom controls so it's useless. So our designers hand code our entire site, but use dreamweaver for it's other time saving features.

I think the problem many people have with dreamweaver is:

1) You have amateur designers, who jump in and only use the wysiwyg, and probably assume that's the entire app. If the wysiwyg fails them, then it's Dreamweaver's fault, not theirs for relying on the tool to do 90% of the work for you.

2) People assume that in order to be an HTML expert, you need to use something like notepad or textedit because it forces you to do everything. When in reality Dreamweaver gives you as much control as you want, that's why its a power users tool. Try turning off the wysiwyg and learning the other portions of the tool.

3) People try to use Dreamweaver for server side coding. Dreamweaver is still best used as front-end app. While it does support syntax highlighting for most languages, there are better IDE's out there for development. Our Dev team doesn't use Dreamweaver because they touch very little front end code and our design team doesn't use a development IDE because it doesn't provide strong enough support for front-end design.

4) Adobe has missed the ability to add some key features over the years that would benefit power users, thus leading to complaints, and a rather "stale" reputation of the app. I can personally say that many of the CS upgrades to dreamweaver only contained minimal enhancements, and many of the same bugs.

 

[chuanist]

DW is useful for its site management tools if nothing else. Personally I like it for moving between code, design, and live views as well. It serves as a central depot for my web projects.