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Sorry, in Tim's Apple, you have to buy a Mac Pro. It doesn't matter if the Mac Pro would work for you or not -- it's the Mac Pro, or the highway.

It also doesn't matter if the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in YEARS, they will still expect you to buy it anyway.
 
Much as I admire their computers from mid-2000 onwards, the only reason they still exist is due to the iPod, and exponential growth via the iPhone. They struggled as a computer company before that because their computers were crap, they had a rotten OS, and the connectors were all proprietary. Apple's old history before Intel Macs is best forgotten as they were just another worthless computer manufacturer like computer history's other relics. They just got lucky with the ipod.
Lucky?
 
Apologises for that part, but i do disagree, there is an iMac with 4K and 5K displays and there are MacBooks, i'm sure they are what you call REAL computers.

Not everyone wants an all in one. I have a monitor, all I want is another upgraded Mini to replace the one I have. The current model is unacceptable
 
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I've used many players and cursed them all until I got an iPod shuffle 1st gen and suddenly things Just Worked. I owned four iPods in total and never had any problems with them. Not once. It was the time when Sony had their proprietary software AND proprietary headphones and to call the experience "hot mess" is a major compliment. This is actually one of the reasons I complain about Apple Music/iCloud so much – because I got used to perfection (which I still experience when using my 4th gen iPod Mini that syncs – OH DEAR – with a cable) and with iCloud I just get frustrated most of the time. I wouldn't say they were lucky with iPod, they took their time and when they released it – and once iTunes went past the teething stage – it just swept everyone else off their feet because of perfect mix of software and hardware. I remember when Microsoft did a poll "who is going to buy a Zune in the coming year" and the result was "nobody, but some of us are getting new iPods".

iPhone was similar. Despite my initial doubts – I was one of those "who would want a phone without keyboard?!" people – it changed people's lives, and it changed what a smartphone used to be. (And killed Crackberry.) It was magic compared to other companies' efforts. It wasn't pure luck. They took a MAJOR risk and won the jackpot – deservedly so.

In the last years I haven't felt the magic. It might be simply because there isn't much more that can be done unless they come up with a whole new category of devices like Google tried and failed with Google Glass. I have no interest in a smartwatch of any sort. I have no interest in a Macbook with one port and that keyboard even if it weighs 100 gram. It's not another "I miss Steve" post, I don't think Steve would have had a lot of revolutionary ideas in 2016 either. Apple put computers in our pockets, bags, on our desks and sofas and made the experience – at least until Mavericks, I can't speak about iOS as I don't use it – amazing in the time when Windows made people curse and cry. Adobe keeps on updating Photoshop, Illustrator etc. by moving options around and pretending it's a new version with LOTS of new features. Until a new revolution happens – chips under the skin? a phone that reads thoughts? built into an earring? – the "Apple is doooooomed with bean-counter at the helm" is going to happen all the time. (And probably when iChip comes out Apple's stock will drop anyway, because why not.) It's time of iterations and failures at the moment. Apple is making "me too" products but really everybody is. The VR glasses make people nauseous. Self-driving cars cause accidents and will cause them until ALL cars are self-driving.

Everybody has great ideas here, upgradeable laptops, new Mac Pro, new Thunderbolt Display, new everything, but they are iteration ideas. iPhone 7, Watch 2, Macbook Early 2016. iPad Pro isn't going to change the way humans use devices, whether it is a PC replacement for many or not. It's still an iPad, just with some new features, a pencil and better speakers.
 
Yep they are. An earlier Microsoft entry into the market would have tied it up for the Zune and the iPod would be another relic of MP3 player history.

That's a "what if" that is completely contingent on Apple to show them the way, so no, that wouldn't have happened by "luck". The Zune was entirely a response to Apple (a very slow one at that), to prevent Apple from getting out from under the shadow of Microsoft in the marketplace.

Microsoft wouldn't even exist if Bill Gates hadn't stolen the Mac OS, and Apples lawyers hadn't been such idiots when they drafted the Windows 1.0 license agreements.
 
That's a "what if" that is completely contingent on Apple to show them the way, so no, that wouldn't have happened by "luck". The Zune was entirely a response to Apple (a very slow one at that), to prevent Apple from getting out from under the shadow of Microsoft in the

If the Zune was released at the same time as the iPod then the zune would gave reigned supreme. So, yes, they were lucky that Microsoft never saw where the market was going.
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Microsoft wouldn't even exist if Bill Gates hadn't stolen the Mac OS, and Apples lawyers hadn't been such idiots when they drafted the Windows 1.0 license agreements.

And apple wouldn't know about WIMP interfaces unless jobs went to PARC Xerox in the late 70s. But there's no doubt the MP3 market would be microsoft's if they entered earlier.
 
If the Zune was released at the same time as the iPod then the zune would gave reigned supreme. So, yes, they were lucky that Microsoft never saw where the market was going.
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And apple wouldn't know about WIMP interfaces unless jobs went to PARC Xerox in the late 70s. But there's no doubt the MP3 market would be microsoft's if they entered earlier.

Really? You mean like how Microsoft had introduced tablet PCs and windows mobile phones over a decade before Apple, and totally dominated the market? Oh wait, that didn't happen. Must have been more dumb luck on Apple's part?
 
Really? You mean like how Microsoft had introduced tablet PCs and windows mobile phones over a decade before Apple, and totally dominated the market? Oh wait, that didn't happen. Must have been more dumb luck on Apple's part?

There were a plethora of mp3 players way back in the early 2000s the market would have immediately followed microsoft if they got into it. I'm sorry that statement upsets you. Tablet PCs were niche products that didn't have a non-business market back then and Microsoft tried hard to create one but didn't get it. Often it's the convergence of technology with the moment and tablets were not in their moment back then.
 
There were a plethora of mp3 players way back in the early 2000s the market would have immediately followed microsoft if they got into it. I'm sorry that statement upsets you. Tablet PCs were niche products that didn't have a non-business market back then and Microsoft tried hard to create one but didn't get it. Often it's the convergence of technology with the moment and tablets were not in their moment back then.

Nor touch screen smartphones evidently.

You can call it luck and timing all you want, but vision and talent do in fact count for something. They don't always conspire to win, and Microsoft is certainly evidence of that, but often the cream does rise to the top, and though it took almost two decades, Apple finally did usurp Microsoft to its deserved status in the marketplace, and Microsoft was shown to be the untalented hack it always was without Apple showing them the way.

You see Microsoft was lucky IBM was stupid enough not to recognize the value of software to give them a license for their OS. And Bill Gates was lucky he knew a guy with an OS for sale. And IBM before them was lucky they built solid business machines, so that the world waited to get into PCs until IBM introduced theirs. But where are both of those companies now? Oh right, on the way down.

But that's all pure luck, right? None of these companies are where they are today because of business management, marketing, talent, innovation, and marketing? It's all dumb luck?
 
what would be great is a iPod shuffle with blue tooth conductibility for some wire less head phones.
 
Yep they are. An earlier Microsoft entry into the market would have tied it up for the Zune and the iPod would be another relic of MP3 player history.

I disagree. Sure, there's an element of luck in all product launches. But it's not just about timing. There's leadership, vision, implementation, marketing, user experience and design.

The Zune was not a polished product at the outset which didn't help.
 
I disagree. Sure, there's an element of luck in all product launches. But it's not just about timing. There's leadership, vision, implementation, marketing, user experience and design.

The Zune was not a polished product at the outset which didn't help.

The critical period for mp3 players was 2001-2005 where Apple built a reputation for the ipod and that momentum transcended all other mp3 vendors. In 2004 when Apple released a Windows interface for ipod allowed the product growth to exploded due to Windows buyers. After that point, it was always going to be playing catch up from Microsoft's point of view, since it had already lost critical data.

If Zune were released in 2002 or 2003 then Apple would just be another two bit computer company that was consigned to history. Microsoft's loss was Apple's gain - luck.
 
The critical period for mp3 players was 2001-2005 where Apple built a reputation for the ipod and that momentum transcended all other mp3 vendors. In 2004 when Apple released a Windows interface for ipod allowed the product growth to exploded due to Windows buyers. After that point, it was always going to be playing catch up from Microsoft's point of view, since it had already lost critical data.

If Zune were released in 2002 or 2003 then Apple would just be another two bit computer company that was consigned to history. Microsoft's loss was Apple's gain - luck.

Sorry, but zune failed because it was just bad. iPod was a huge success because it was great.
 
The critical period for mp3 players was 2001-2005 where Apple built a reputation for the ipod and that momentum transcended all other mp3 vendors. In 2004 when Apple released a Windows interface for ipod allowed the product growth to exploded due to Windows buyers. After that point, it was always going to be playing catch up from Microsoft's point of view, since it had already lost critical data.

If Zune were released in 2002 or 2003 then Apple would just be another two bit computer company that was consigned to history. Microsoft's loss was Apple's gain - luck.

You yourself just said it. "...Apple built a reputation"...and MS didn't.
This is not by luck...this is doing instead of following.

Plus with respect, you can't win an argument by saying "IF".
Anyone can counter by saying the exact opposite citing the same 'If"
 
If Zune were released in 2002 or 2003

But it wasn't, and it wouldn't have been, because Microsoft at the time believed in 1) Windows everywhere, 2) Windows Media (anyone remember that?) everywhere, 3) the "PlaysForSure" deal where Microsoft provides the software, and third parties make the hardware.

1 eventually failed when the iPhone got popular, 2 was dying around Vista's release (which is why Windows 7, instead of shipping another Microsoft-developed codec, adds H.264, and why Windows 8 doesn't even bother updating Windows Media Player, nor does Windows RT ship with it at all), and 3's death knell came with the Zune.

But in "2002 or 2003"? During those days, Ballmer and the "tech pundits" thought the iPod was a fluke, and Microsoft was going to continue to reign.
 
If Zune were released in 2002 or 2003 then Apple would just be another two bit computer company that was consigned to history. Microsoft's loss was Apple's gain - luck.
I would agree with that had I not used Microsoft products in the past. The one and only MS product I can't live without are their ergonomic keyboards.
 
But in "2002 or 2003"? During those days, Ballmer and the "tech pundits" thought the iPod was a fluke, and Microsoft was going to continue to reign.

And that's the key point. Microsoft had lost the mind share at that point when Apple opened up the ipod to real customers. The product exploded as Windows users had heard good things about the ipod but now they could use it on Windows then the game was lost for Microsoft.

This wasn't some master plan by Apple. It was luck.
 
The MacBooks have become these glued together, un-repairable, un-upgradable CE devices. The iMacs are stuck with second rate AMD graphics, as is the MacPro.

This is why I Hackintosh. They just don't make a machine worth a damn for MY needs. It's a premium cost for what I DON'T want.

Apple has gone through this transition before.

A lot of the flux comes from waiting for 10nm processors to hit the market while iGPUs catch -up. Meanwhile, iOS and processors still have a ways to go before an iPad or a MacBook can become an every-day computer, but they are making progress. Once we're able to get to 10nm, Apple will likely phase out some of their awkward product lines. That being said, Kaby Lake should be a beauty on the MBP.
 
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