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poiihy

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Aug 22, 2014
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What kind of cells are inside an iBook battery pack? Does it have cylindrical 18650 3.6v lithium cells, or does it have flat sandwich cells?
 
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RedCroissant

Suspended
Aug 13, 2011
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cylindrical as far as I can remember. An iBook battery that I had once started separating and I was tempted to get in there and start replacing stuff but decided against it.
 

poiihy

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Aug 22, 2014
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Really? Cool! It would be great if they were 18650. Many flashlights use 18650.
 

LightBulbFun

macrumors 68030
Nov 17, 2013
2,893
3,188
London UK
OMG, that's great!! I can reuse the cells for flashlights! :D

Just have to ask tho why would you? working iBook G3/G4 batteries that still hold a good charge are rather hard to find and tearing one apart just for some batteries that you can get at the store is a bit sad tbh
 
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poiihy

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Aug 22, 2014
2,301
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Just have to ask tho why would you? working iBook G3/G4 batteries that still hold a good charge are rather hard to find and tearing one apart just for some batteries that you can get at the store is a bit sad tbh

Why not? I already have an iBook battery.
 

happyfrappy

macrumors 6502
Oct 14, 2007
343
50
Location eh?
If the battery health of an existing battery pack is >20%, better to repack than risk it hitting critical/replacement alert or OS/power management activates the battery's safety fuse circuit as you can't reset the status once triggered/activated... seen this happen on iBook G3-G4/PowerBook G4 & Thinkpad batteries quite a bit at the 8-12% capacity point.
 
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skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,091
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Portugal
If the battery health of an existing battery pack is >20%, better to repack than risk it hitting critical/replacement alert or OS/power management activates the battery's safety fuse circuit as you can't reset the status once triggered/activated... seen this happen on iBook G3-G4/PowerBook G4 & Thinkpad batteries quite a bit at the 8-12% capacity point.

Sorry to bump such old thread. I just bought a Powerbook G4 12 (still in the mail).
Previous owner said it wasn't turn on for some years and at least on one of the batteries it would only run when the charger is plugged in. It doesn't worth to rebuild this battery correct?
Anyone has the info on the 18650 cells used? Brand and mah rating?
 
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skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,091
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Portugal
Can we say all iBooks and Pismos/titanium have the 18650 cells?

Do all ALU PowerBooks wear the 18650?

I guess so. About alu powerbooks yes: http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=149


Thanks for all the links, some of them I already read. I will read the others. One brand I noticed was Sony, but some powerbook/ibook g4 with sony cells were recalled also.
 

skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,091
94
Portugal
If the battery health of an existing battery pack is >20%, better to repack than risk it hitting critical/replacement alert or OS/power management activates the battery's safety fuse circuit as you can't reset the status once triggered/activated... seen this happen on iBook G3-G4/PowerBook G4 & Thinkpad batteries quite a bit at the 8-12% capacity point.

About this, found this for macbooks, the principle should be more or less the same.
Anyone knows what is the "hardware" in the powerbook/ibook batteries?
If anyone has a battery open and whats to share some good resolution pics of the battery circuit I would thank.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-battery-rom-cycle-reset.1112363/

https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Miller/BH_US_11_Miller_Battery_Firmware_Public_WP.pdf
 

Lastic

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2016
879
757
North of the HellHole
About this, found this for macbooks, the principle should be more or less the same.
Anyone knows what is the "hardware" in the powerbook/ibook batteries?
If anyone has a battery open and whats to share some good resolution pics of the battery circuit I would thank.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-battery-rom-cycle-reset.1112363/

https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Miller/BH_US_11_Miller_Battery_Firmware_Public_WP.pdf

I have an open iBook and Powerbook battery of which I took pictures, I will post them once I'm back home
 

Lastic

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2016
879
757
North of the HellHole
So once upon a time I wanted to transplant the cells of a new Newertech 12" iBook G4 battery to a dead PB G4 12" battery and took these pictures, however I never completed the project but took pictures of the assembly as a prep

Here is the 1st part of the Powerbook G4 12" Apple battery pack disassembly

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IMG_1937.JPG
IMG_1938.JPG
IMG_1939.JPG
IMG_1940.JPG
IMG_1941.JPG
 
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skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,091
94
Portugal
@Lastic thanks a lot for this pictures.
The original cells are sony sf18650gr cells. Your newertech uses panasonic ncr18650.
The video with that iBook battery rebuild is also about a newertech battery, but the cells seem LG HE218650 or maybe sanyo (both great brands).
All this brands are ok and also used in thinkpads, but I guess panasonic and sanyo may be a little better, if anyone has more experience let us know.
From my knowledge:
-Sony cells in iBooks and Powerbooks were recalled
-LG makes some good cells, but at least in my Thinkpad I've not had a great experience
 
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skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,091
94
Portugal
Since this topic has some technical details I take the opportunity to ask one more question.
My recently bought Powerbook G4 12 1.5GHz came with 2 batteries, one "normal", about 215 cycles, lasts about 2:30 and the capacity shown in Coconut Battery is 3246mah out of 4400mah which I find "normal".
The second battery has 206 cycles, but show a capacity of 62953mah instead of 4400mah (or similar). This one lasts the same 2:30, but in completely uncalibrated (for example it lasts the 2:30 till 90% and then shuts off).
I presume there is on cell (or more) that have problem, but what problem? Or is something with the controller?
In this topic it says it may be due to over voltage, but wouldn't the battery chip have some kind of security?
This is more a matter of knowledge and maybe a way to tell if it is worth to open the battery and find the bad cell and replace it (because 206 cycles is nothing).
 
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AphoticD

macrumors 68020
Feb 17, 2017
2,283
3,465
This is more a matter of knowledge and maybe a way to tell if it is worth to open the battery and find the bad cell and replace it (because 206 cycles is nothing).

Sometimes even low cycle counts don’t make for a reliable battery. My TiBook has a cycle count less than 100 but shuts off around 60% (<1hr). My clamshell is at 173, but refuses to charge.

I think if the battery has been stored for years inside the laptop without being regularly cycled then it will not be reliable. The logic board/circuit likely drains the battery to absolute zero which causes the cells irreparable damage.
 

philgxxd

macrumors 6502
Feb 11, 2017
423
342
Malaga, Spain
I have a theory that the "smart battery management chip" (I'm not even sure about the technical terms) once depleted to such a low voltage state is losing the programming because I have a battery that behaves the same after I refitted new cells into.

I was very carefully not to leave the circuit board disconnected from a power source while I soldered new cells into but that didn't prevent the battery pack after the implantation from this behaviour.
I guess it's due to that it once got too depleted so it already lost the programming before the rebuilt.
 

skinniezinho

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2009
1,091
94
Portugal
Sorry to revive such old thread.
I would like to test this procedure to revive two batteries that were left too long without charge
Does anyone where is the + and - on the powerbook g4 battery connector?
 
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