I highly doubt that a 15" pro will live along side a 16" pro. Makes zero sense. On the other hand I would welcome a 15" Air.
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What's the future of the 13" MacBook Pro?
- Thread starter CrazyForCashews
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There already is something in between - The $1799 'full fat' 13", with 2.4GHz+ processor and 4 TB3 ports... and by the time you upgrade to a quad i7, 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM you're paying $2499, more than the 6-core 15".
The $1299 "entry" model is the 'lite' version (what used to be the 'non-touchbar' until this summer) with the 1.4 GHz processor and only 2 TB3 ports.
I can see that some people would want a 15" or 16" with a cheaper CPU and no dGPU, if they just needed a bigger screen for 2D/office work, web development etc. where the new 16" would be an overkill. I wouldn't hold my breath though - that's been true since about 2012. And if it did come out, it would probably be cheaper for Apple to use the 16" screen rather than tool up for yet another case design.
If you look at the first reviews nobody is raving about the life-changing extra 0.4" of screen - its not something people are going to pay a premium for. Its almost as if the bigger screen is only there to fill up the extra area needed to implement the new keyboard, speakers, battery and cooling system, without making the bezels bigger...
The idea that the 15" would continue was from an alternate universe in which the 16" was a new super-pro $4000 super-laptop. Even if it happens it still won't make sense
As for 13"/14", that's anybody's guess. I'm sure the keyboard will get replaced at some stage, at least on the 13" MBP - they can hardly keep selling the old one with a straight face. Not sure the cooling/battery was ever such a biggie on the 13". If they have to make it bigger, then maybe they'll give it a 13.7" screen to fill the blank...
The other (pure speculation) is that the entry-level 13" would make more sense as a "MacBook" now the 12" is dead, giving us 13" MacBook Air, 13" MacBook, 14" MacBook Pro, 16" MacBook Pro....
Reminds me of people asking why the iPad 10.2" exists when iPad Air 10.5" is already being sold.
Who pays for a $499 for iPad Air when the $329 iPad exists? Clearly, there's enough demand.
People who want the significantly better specs of the iPad Air, that go beyond the screen size?
The $329 iPad is a built-down-to-a-price "economy" version using old technology, particularly aimed at schools buying hundreds of the things - and something of a panic reaction to the popularity of Chromebooks in school. If Apple did decide to produce a cheap MacBook for schools they wouldn't start with the 15" MBP.
The idea is that if Apple is selling a mainstream 15-inch notebook, they wouldn't be using a 16-inch display, regardless of how similar the tooling may be.
There are plenty of Pro users who don't need a discrete GPU with 4GB of GDDR6.
Redesigning the 15-inch chassis to accept a scissor keyboard is similar to the rebirth of the iPad Pro 10.5" as the iPad Air.
I know a lot of people love the 13-inch size. If anything Apple's going to reduce the overall footprint to make it more portable or marginally increase the size of the screen by narrowing the bezels. If the 16-inch screen is ~4% more screen real estate than the 15-inch, what would ~4% increase on the current 13-inch enclosure look like?
At the very least, I anticipate Apple will improve the speakers on the 13-inch, improve the thermal management and built-in mics, include 10th gen Intel processors that will further increase performance, put 512GB for storage on the base model, and of course, add the new Magic Keyboard. There's a lot to look forward to with the 13-inch.
At the very least, I anticipate Apple will improve the speakers on the 13-inch, improve the thermal management and built-in mics, include 10th gen Intel processors that will further increase performance, put 512GB for storage on the base model, and of course, add the new Magic Keyboard. There's a lot to look forward to with the 13-inch.
And you think that’s going to happen?
It’s messy enough with the Air, and 13” MBP so close. Why would they discontinue the 15” only to reintroduce another one. The majority of people don’t select laptops by keyboard type, but rather size.
The gap prior to Wednesday’s announcement was also $1000, so nothing has changed. I think they’d go up in size with the 13” to 14” if they want to close that gap.
15" is analogous to the 6.1" iPhone. There's a number of customers that want a large display but don't need a $2,399 notebook with discrete video and six speakers.
Mac shipments have been stagnant or declining the past several quarters, while Lenovo, HP and Dell have seen growth. We saw Apple shift its strategy with the iPhone XR and iPad Air. Is it that difficult to believe Apple wants to close that $1,100 gap between 13- and 16-inch?
15" is NOT going to return "with scissor". That's just nonsense.
Kuo throws a lot of stuff on the wall, in a hope that something sticks. He's been wrong so many times lately, I have mostly stopped paying attention to him.
The 13" form factor will stick around.
It -might- get a -slightly- larger display -- perhaps 13.5", 13.75", or even 14" if an appropriate panel is available.
But there is a sizable cohort of users (including myself) who prefer the smaller-sized MBP.
I would think particularly among students, who have a lot to carry around as it is.
For me, the MBP is a "secondary" computer, to use downstairs away from my "main machine" (2018 Mini).
The 16" looks great, but I don't see myself needing one (even though the price for the base model is very attractive, and may drop even lower after the new year).
It -might- get a -slightly- larger display -- perhaps 13.5", 13.75", or even 14" if an appropriate panel is available.
But there is a sizable cohort of users (including myself) who prefer the smaller-sized MBP.
I would think particularly among students, who have a lot to carry around as it is.
For me, the MBP is a "secondary" computer, to use downstairs away from my "main machine" (2018 Mini).
The 16" looks great, but I don't see myself needing one (even though the price for the base model is very attractive, and may drop even lower after the new year).
I do see the potential for a larger-screen quad/iGPU laptop - but its not something Apple have offered since 2015 (when the iGPU vs. dGPU trade-off may have been different anyway) and not something I've seen any clamour for - but that would be nicely filled with a 16" model - which would save Apple the cost of making 3 totally different cases.
The 15.4 to 16 "upgrade" just isn't a big enough deal to be worth multiple models. Apple have released it at the same price point as the old 15.3" while improving the SSD and GPU options. Most of the reviews have been ~meh about the screen and focussed on the keyboard, audio and better value.
As for iPhones, iPads etc. - different products are different, the iPhone in particular sells in far higher volumes than the Mac, with a lot of old models being kept on at low price points. Mind you, the fact that the 'Compare iPhone models' page on apple.com now covers 16 models (and that's before looking at storage/colour options) means that you now need to apply general relativity to calculate how fast Steve Jobs is spinning in his grave.
Is it that difficult to believe Apple will close that $1100 gap with a higher-priced 14-inch model?
The industry has standardized around 13", 15", and 17" with good reason.
14" isn't portable enough and isn't a desktop replacement either.
The largest laptop manufacturers all (Lenovo, Dell and HP) all have 14" models, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.
Regardless, a 14" display in the same 13" form factor is portable enough.
No laptop is truly a desktop replacement...that's why there's an iMac. But should you want to, add an external display.
What do you all think the possibility of the "new" 13" supporting dual 5K displays? Would they update to a video card that could support that?
That is the only reason I still have a 15" right now.
Joe
That is the only reason I still have a 15" right now.
Joe
The 15" is now the 16" - sounds like he was hedging his bets which is fine - a lot of the chat on here from when the rumours started was about whether the 15 & 16 would co-exist or not.
"14" display in the same 13" form factor" is basically not possible, unless they go full bezel-less, which they won't.
I predict the new 13" Macbook Pro will basically retain the existing form factor, maybe with slightly reduced bezels and slightly larger 13.5" screen. Redesigned keyboard matching new 16" MBP. New Intel Gen-10 10nm CPU for improved battery life, without larger battery.
I'd be more than happy with this upgrade.
The new 10th generation Ice Lake mobile Intel CPU is quite a bit faster then Apple’s 9th generation CPU (aka SkyLake -14nm) and will come with wi-fi 6, 10nm thickness and GPU will be Gen 11 graphics, with more flat out memory bandwidth from the LPDDR4X-3733 RAM.
Looks like Apple will again be taken it sweet time to release this CPU which has been in the marketplace for over 9 months now! I think 2021 Fall would be an updated MBP 13” with Ice Lake inside. Samples have been floating around for over 18 months however. Most PC manufacturers have this in their notebooks all ready to sell!
Looks like Apple will again be taken it sweet time to release this CPU which has been in the marketplace for over 9 months now! I think 2021 Fall would be an updated MBP 13” with Ice Lake inside. Samples have been floating around for over 18 months however. Most PC manufacturers have this in their notebooks all ready to sell!
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There will be no 15.6” Macbook pro
Apple will not make another different display from profit margin reasons when they had 15.4”
Get over it..kuo also said airpower is coming,mass production. So stop promise or talk like KUO is Tim Cook and have perfect inside knowledge
The mac is not the iphone
And even so we will have 13” macbook air for those who want portability, the 14” and the 16” Mbp
Apple will not make another different display from profit margin reasons when they had 15.4”
Get over it..kuo also said airpower is coming,mass production. So stop promise or talk like KUO is Tim Cook and have perfect inside knowledge
The mac is not the iphone
And even so we will have 13” macbook air for those who want portability, the 14” and the 16” Mbp
You're missing an important piece of context about these predictions. At the time he put this out, the rumour mill suggested that the 16" model would be significantly different looking (if you remember those renders with even bezels and rounded display corners), and would co-exist with the 15" and be positioned above at a higher price point. It was only just before the launch that we learned it was merely a refined design, and would be replacing the 15" at the same start price. I think if you asked Kuo today, he'd probably drop the 15" from his table. Your point about him having not reported the existence of any 14" display is fair, but your defence of the 15" in 2020 is odd because that prediction was made when we had a different understanding of the 16".
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I think just because we haven't heard anything about a 14" Pro yet doesn't mean it's not possible, it just means that if it did happen, it would probably be June (WWDC?) at the earliest. If they were to do a 14" panel, they wouldn't need to be doing trial production more than a few months in advance, because they would just take the same panel design as the 16" and lop a few pixels off (eg. 14" at 226ppi = 2688x1680).
The key factor in all of this is whether Apple thinks the 13" Pro can be made into a much better product by making it a little bigger. The 16" Pro is clearly a superior product to the old 15" because it allowed for better thermals, beefier GPUs, and a larger battery. The 13" uses lower wattage components, so they might not feel that there is much benefit to be realised from give them more breathing space. It really depends on whether that extra volume would allow them to enhance performance (eg. DDR4 RAM, a low TDP dGPU, etc), otherwise they'd probably view it as not worth the effort and expense.
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Considering that adding an i7, 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD makes the 4-port 13" more expensive than that base 16" (despite the same storage, worse CPU, much worse GPU, no DDR4 RAM, worse keyboard, speakers and mic, smaller screen), I'm hoping Apple do something soon to make it competitive with their other offerings.
I guess we might finally see 16GB standard, a 14" screen, the new keyboard and acoustics. Not sure if they can fit anything more than a quad-core CPU in that size, or whether a dGPU would be possible. If not, I'd hope there's a slight price cut.
I'm not sure where that would leave the 2-port MBP though. Maybe it would get the new screen and keyboard, though I wouldn't be massively surprised if it was discontinued with a slightly beefier Air replacing it.
I guess we might finally see 16GB standard, a 14" screen, the new keyboard and acoustics. Not sure if they can fit anything more than a quad-core CPU in that size, or whether a dGPU would be possible. If not, I'd hope there's a slight price cut.
I'm not sure where that would leave the 2-port MBP though. Maybe it would get the new screen and keyboard, though I wouldn't be massively surprised if it was discontinued with a slightly beefier Air replacing it.
On one hand I can see how Apple may want to greater differentiate the two lines, by not updating the 13 into a 14”. Yes, size will allow them to improve on thermals and implement potentially faster chips.
But the elephant in the room is the keyboard. I know, it may just be a vocal minority who have had issues with the butterfly keys. But even newbies to Mac researching a purchase, will be turned off by the negative feedback about these keys. I’m guessing the majority of MBP’s sold is skewed towards the smaller 13”. So there’s a huge base of potential buyers.
Apple won’t outright admit to being wrong. But I can’t see them not changing the 13” MBP over to scissor keys. And in doing so, the extra space needed, may just point them to changing the overall size of the case as well.
An interesting point on differentiating the two lines - apparently at the private press briefing in New York, Apple showed a slide about their "Pro notebook" lineup where the 13" MBP wasn't included. The 16" is also now listed separately on apple.com/mac rather than just being subsumed into the MBP page.
I hope we do still get a smaller laptop as I love the size. I'd still be surprised if there isn't at least some update soon, but there are hints that Apple may be focusing primarily on the larger Pro device going forward.
The reason why Kuo’s predictions are almost always spot on is they’re not based on a guess. They’re based on supply chain contracts. He knows Sunrex has been asked to supply scissor keyboards for 2020 models. More importantly, how many keyboards and what size. These discussions happen 12-18 months ahead of launch. He can infer the future plan of the 13” and 15” based on these discussions.
Second, it’s not possible to suddenly begin production of 14” panels merely months before launch. Suppliers don’t suddenly have vacant fab capacity to make things they don’t expect. Apple needs time to qualify suppliers to avoid sole sourcing and negotiate pricing. This is how Kuo is able to tell us about 16-inch nine months in advance. Same reason he’s able to tell us about the size of 2020 iPhone 15-months before launch.