What's the likelihood of M2 supporting more ram?

[maxsquared]

Anyone knows chip design? What's the likelihood of M2 supporting more ram? Is it a limitation or just business/design decision?

I have a MBP 14inch M1Pro 32 GB at home, but the CPU and GPU is overkill for me. Work can upgrade my laptop now or I can wait for M2, there is no way I need a M1Pro or Max nor they will buy it for me, but what I do I will need more ram.

 

[skaertus]

Anyone knows chip design? What's the likelihood of M2 supporting more ram? Is it a limitation or just business/design decision?

I have a MBP 14inch M1Pro 32 GB at home, but the CPU and GPU is overkill for me. Work can upgrade my laptop now or I can wait for M2, there is no way I need a M1Pro or Max nor they will buy it for me, but what I do I will need more ram.

I suppose it is a business design decision, a way of avoiding power customers getting the cheaper M1 devices instead of the more expensive options.

 

[ader42]

If you don’t need a Pro why do you need more than 16GB RAM? Genuine question as I used to use a 16GB RAM MBP for xcode app development, photoshop and some 3d graphics work and that was with a Mac far less powerful than an M1.

 

[maxsquared]

If you don’t need a Pro why do you need more than 16GB RAM? Genuine question as I used to use a 16GB RAM MBP for xcode app development, photoshop and some 3d graphics work and that was with a Mac far less powerful than an M1.

I am a technical product manager. I have access to code base and Docker, which I look and build sometimes but not make changes. I also use Photoshop, sketch and a lot of design tools, we also use Teams, which uses a lot of memory. I also have a lot of browser tabs open across Safari, Chrome and Firefox. Doing all these with my own MacBook uses about 25gb of ram (with 32 GB ram). But I think I only need M1 to do this.

Saying that my current work laptop is 2017 13 inch with 8 gb ram, it’s really slow and whenever I use it, it’s like sitting in front of a jet engine and with heat coming from nuclear power station.

Now, I can use my own laptop when it is lock down, but we are talking about going back to the office, I don’t fancy take my own laptop into work everyday, plus I don’t want to use my own laptop for work when they can get me a new one.

Hope this make sense.

 

[MrGunny94]

I am a technical product manager. I have access to code base and Docker, which I look and build sometimes but not make changes. I also use Photoshop, sketch and a lot of design tools, we also use Teams, which uses a lot of memory. I also have a lot of browser tabs open across Safari, Chrome and Firefox. Doing all these with my own MacBook uses about 25gb of ram. But I think I only need M1 to do this.

Saying that my current work laptop is 2017 13 inch with 8 gb ram, it’s really slow and whenever I use it, it’s like sitting in front of a jet engine and with heat coming from nuclear power station.

Now, I can use my own laptop when it is lock down, but we are talking about going back to the office, I don’t fancy take my own laptop into work everyday, plus I don’t want to use my own laptop for work when they can get me a new one.

Hope this make sense.

The issue right now is that Teams can take 3-4GB. I work as a Cloud Architect and the 16GB are fine but it compresses a lot because of bad Electron and working via Rosetta.

I have seen people with 32GB having the same issue as me despite having double the memory. For now I think the software is to blame here but if you going to work with Docker and possibly VMs go for the 32GB.

The only reason I picked the 16GB was because there was a 1 month delay for the 32GB model.

 

[darngooddesign]

Anyone knows chip design? What's the likelihood of M2 supporting more ram? Is it a limitation or just business/design decision?

I have a MBP 14inch M1Pro 32 GB at home, but the CPU and GPU is overkill for me. Work can upgrade my laptop now or I can wait for M2, there is no way I need a M1Pro or Max nor they will buy it for me, but what I do I will need more ram.

I doubt it. The M2 will be a faster version of the same chip.

 

[julesme]

Eventually, Apple will increase the max RAM on the entry level M series devices. The way I see it, it will either happen with M2 or M3. It's unlikely that we get to 2025-2026 (M4 based on 18-24 mo cycle) and max RAM on the entry level devices is still capped at 16 GB.

By this same logic, if the entry-level M3 can be configured with at least 32GB RAM, then M3 Pro probably allows 64GB, M3 Max allows 128GB, and M3 Ultra allows 256GB RAM.

 

[leman]

The current limitation is the density of the RAM chips. I doubt that M2 will support 32GB RAM. LPDDR5 does allows higher density than LPDDR4X that Apple currently uses, but the big issue is production capacity as well as economic feasibility.

 

[Gotfredsen]

M2 will support double amount however the upcoming Mac Pro will likely be from the M2 family.

That mean the next MacBook Pro will support up to 128 GB unified memory ...

That mean the next Mac Studio will support up to 256 GB unified memory in its M2 Ultra chip .

The upcoming Mac Pro however will likely have a more modular design with up to 2 slot in boards that can support a combination of either 1 x M2 Ultra, 2 x M2 Ultra, 1x M2 Ultra and 1x M2 Extreme or 2 x M2 Extreme

Using 2x M2 Extreme will be the total unified memory up to 2x512GB Unified memory .. 1 TB of unified memory that is

A M2 Extreme chip would be about 40 Cores of CPU, 128 Core GPU and 512 GB Unified memory

The slot in boards on the upcoming Mac Pro would make it more modular and also making the unified memory sort of modular ...

doing some thermal math ... if Apple keep the current size of the Mac Pro we could see up to 4 slot in hosting each a M2 Extreme 40 Cores of CPU, 128 Core GPU and 512 GB Unified memory that would equal to an insane ... 160 Core CPU, 512 Core GPU, 2 TB Unified memory system ... for an insane high price tag ... but I think for now we will se a smaller Mac Pro with 2 slots ... but 4 slots would be awesome ..

 

[theorist9]

The 16 GB M1 uses 2x 8 GB LPDDR4X memory. The 32 GB M1 Pro uses 2 x 16 GB LPDDR5 memory. So if the M2 switched to using LPDDR5, it could also be configured with 32 GB memory without needing any additional memory modules.

 

[Gnattu]

If you don’t need a Pro why do you need more than 16GB RAM? Genuine question as I used to use a 16GB RAM MBP for xcode app development, photoshop and some 3d graphics work and that was with a Mac far less powerful than an M1.

Because we can easily use up all 16GB simply with browsers nowadays?

 

[leman]

The 16 GB M1 uses 2x 8 GB LPDDR4X memory. The 32 GB M1 Pro uses 2 x 16 GB LPDDR5 memory. So if the M2 switched to using LPDDR5, it could also be configured with 32 GB memory without needing any additional memory modules.

M1 Pro also has double RAM bus width, so those will be four 64-bit 8GB modules (M1 non pro uses 2 64-bit modules). I very much doubt that M2 will use 256-bit memory, too expensive.

 

[theorist9]

M1 Pro also has double RAM bus width, so those will be four 64-bit 8GB modules (M1 non pro uses 2 64-bit modules). I very much doubt that M2 will use 256-bit memory, too expensive.

According to ifixit: "The M1 Pro is flanked by two memory modules (four on the M1 Max*)" [https://www.ifixit.com/News/54122/macbook-pro-2021-teardown]. So you're saying that, on the 32 GB M1 Pro, each of those memory modules is 2x8 rather than 1x16?

 

[leman]

According to ifixit: "The M1 Pro is flanked by two memory modules (four on the M1 Max*)" [https://www.ifixit.com/News/54122/macbook-pro-2021-teardown]. So you're saying that, on the 32 GB M1 Pro, each of those memory modules is 2x8 rather than 1x16?

I have no idea how this works exactly, but a "memory module" on base M1 is 64-bit while a "memory module" on M1 Pro/Max is 128bit. The Pro/Max modules will therefore have use more RAM chips internally, but it doesn't seem like the chips themselves are any more dense. And the Pro/Max RAM modules are larger than M1's modules, so there is that.

 

[theorist9]

I have no idea how this works exactly, but a "memory module" on base M1 is 64-bit while a "memory module" on M1 Pro/Max is 128bit. The Pro/Max modules will therefore have use more RAM chips internally, but it doesn't seem like the chips themselves are any more dense. And the Pro/Max RAM modules are larger than M1's modules, so there is that.

Well maybe 64 bit LPDDR5X then .

IDK how much more expensive 128 bit memory is than 64 bit but, interestingly, Apple charges only $200* to go from 256 bit to 512 bit memory, and that gives you 8 extra GPU cores and double the video encode and Pro Res encode/decode engines as well.

*Same thing they charge for 1/2 TB of storage!

 

[leman]

Well maybe 64 bit LPDDR5X then .

I have no doubt that we will see LPDDR5X in the M2. As to increasing RAM sizes or RAM bus width... I'm sceptical. Higher-density chips are still scarce and more expensive, I doubt that Apple can get them in sufficient quantities to offer standard 16GB M2 entry-level machines. Similarly, increasing the bus witch would significantly cut into Apple's margins and also make M2 much closer to M1 Pro. Just using LPDDR5X should give M2 a healthy RAM bandwidth boost (100GB/s up from 68GB/s).

IDK how much more expensive 128 bit memory is than 64 bit but, interestingly, Apple charges only $200* to go from 256 bit to 512 bit memory, and that gives you 8 extra GPU cores and double the video encode and Pro Res encode/decode engines as well.

Apple likes their $200 price tier increases. I suppose their experience shows that this there is some psychological effect on customers. The actual margins will be different for different upgrades. So just because Apple charges $400 it doesn't necessarily mean that the component is very expensive, and if they charge $200 it doesn't mean that the component is very cheap.

 

[killawat]

The Mac mini is the only AS transitioned Mac to support less than the same amount of memory on the Intel version @ 64 GB vs AS @ 16 GB.

16 GB of AS Memory on the Mac mini is 100% not enough for someone who makes use of a 32 GB intel Mac with a 8 or 12 VRAM eGPU.

I suspect the Mac Pro will be in the same boat, with Todays Mac Pro supporting 1.5TB of memory. Sure the Mac Studio offers more memory but it is not a replacement for the mini. A lot of poorly built apps eating up as much memory as possible.

 

[leman]

The Mac mini is the only AS transitioned Mac to support less than the same amount of memory on the Intel version @ 64 GB vs AS @ 16 GB.

16 GB of AS Memory on the Mac mini is 100% not enough for someone who makes use of a 32 GB intel Mac with a 8 or 12 VRAM eGPU.

Apple still sells the higher-tier Intel Mini. This suggests that this model is not obsolete yet. Although I would expect it to be succeeded by the Studio. So most likely something else is still coming.

 

[darngooddesign]

...plus I don’t want to use my own laptop for work when they can get me a new one.

Since it's their dime, have them get you a 14" MBP with 32GB.

 

[darngooddesign]

The Mac mini is the only AS transitioned Mac to support less than the same amount of memory on the Intel version @ 64 GB vs AS @ 16 GB.

You could get the four port Intel 13" MBP with 32GB RAM.

 

[jav6454]

Because we can easily use up all 16GB simply with browsers nowadays?

Or perhaps you virtualized an OS and need the extra capacity or Photoshop pushes the limits. I mean, everyone has different needs for RAM.

 

[theorist9]

The Mac mini is the only AS transitioned Mac to support less than the same amount of memory on the Intel version @ 64 GB vs AS @ 16 GB.

That's the case for the 24" AS iMac as well, which replaces the 21.5" Intel iMac. The latter maxed out at 32 GB stock, and could be expanded to 64 GB with aftermarket modules.

 

[ian87w]

If you don’t need a Pro why do you need more than 16GB RAM? Genuine question as I used to use a 16GB RAM MBP for xcode app development, photoshop and some 3d graphics work and that was with a Mac far less powerful than an M1.

A "pro" != only photoshop/3D graphics. People with complex databases and spreadsheets also need the RAM, but not necessarily need more processing power.

Thus it is really annoying on how Apple picked 8GB RAM as the default config. I hope M2 will be 16GB at base. Even my 10 year old laptop came with 8GB of RAM as default. In the age where phones have 6-12GB of RAM, it's embarrassing for a premium laptop to have only 8GB RAM as base.

 

[theorist9]

If you don’t need a Pro why do you need more than 16GB RAM? Genuine question as I used to use a 16GB RAM MBP for xcode app development, photoshop and some 3d graphics work and that was with a Mac far less powerful than an M1.

I have the same RAM problem, just shifted upward. I need more than a Mini, but a Pro would be sufficient (if it could drive more than 2 external displays). However, I would like Ultra-level (128 GB) amounts of RAM for scientific calculations. But the Ultra is too wasteful for me when it comes to CPU and GPU, so I'm thinking of a binned Max with min-spec CPU and GPU, and 64 GB RAM.

 

[leman]

A "pro" != only photoshop/3D graphics. People with complex databases and spreadsheets also need the RAM, but not necessarily need more processing power.

Thus it is really annoying on how Apple picked 8GB RAM as the default config. I hope M2 will be 16GB at base. Even my 10 year old laptop came with 8GB of RAM as default. In the age where phones have 6-12GB of RAM, it's embarrassing for a premium laptop to have only 8GB RAM as base.

I don’t disagree, but it’s still an industry standard. Pretty much every premium laptop in the market comes with 8GB RAM at that price point. I mean, I would love for Apple to offer 16GB as standard, but there is not much incentive for them to do that while Dell and co sell slower 8GB laptops for $200+ more.