What's the story between Geohot vs CDT?

Discussion in 'Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks' started by djuarez03, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. djuarez03 macrumors regular

    May 23, 2008
    I've tried piecing it together via twitter, but to me, it's not clear why there was so much drama about releasing/not releasing greenpoison. By the whole "do the right thing" comment, it makes it seem as if Geohot had been in contact with CDT about not releasing greenpoison, but why? Had he offered his exploit to them but they didn't want it? Up to that point, it seemed that geohot was out of the game, but his comments make it seem as if he had advised them not to use the SHAtter exploit and instead use his. Anyone know what the whole story is?
  2. maturola macrumors 68040


    Oct 29, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Just read this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1027073

    You got quotes from pretty much every twitter post and also lot of discussions
  3. djuarez03 thread starter macrumors regular

    May 23, 2008
    Wow, took me a while to piece it together from the thread, but I can understand all the drama. Lots of egos being hurt basically, but I'm glad everything turned out the way it did, as it benefits everyone in the long run. But basically, from what I gathered, here is the order of events in a nutshell for those who rather get the short version of the story:

    Chronic Dev Team (CDT) announces Greenpoison using the SHAtter exploit to be released on 10/10/10, but only works for A4 devices.

    Geohot, out of nowhere, and just days before the release of Greenpoison, contacts CDT and tells them he is willing to share his previously found exploit for implementation in Greenpoison in order so that they can save the SHAtter exploit for later. Geohot's exploit will work on all iOS devices, not just A4 based devices.

    CDT is more than annoyed at this, as Geohot probably could've contacted them a lot sooner in order to implement this exploit. But CDT, having already announced a release date, is not too willing to push back the release date in order to implement Geohot's exploit, and make it sound like they will ignore his exploit and release Greenpoison with SHAtter anyway.

    Geohot, by examining the latest iBoot and Bootrom code, is aware that Apple most likely is already aware of the hole his exploit uses. Which means that his exploit will for sure be plugged in the near future by Apple. But SHAtter, on the other hand, is unknown to Apple at this time. So to Geohot, it makes more sense to use his exploit first and save SHAtter for later. So in order to force CDT's hand, he announces that he will release Limera1n a day after Greenpoison, thereby burning two perfectly good exploits at the same time.

    CDT responds to this by saying, in essence, "you are screwing the community by doing that, but we are not changing our plans just for you". CDT is firm on their release date and won't budge.

    Geohot, as a last resort, releases Limera1n a day before Greenpoison is to be released, instead of after as he had threatened. On top of that, he makes Limera1n untethered by using Comex's user-land exploit, against what he had promised Comex. Basically, Comex had given him the exploit with the agreement that he wouldn't release Limera1n the way he did.

    At this point, CDT comes around, puts their pride aside, and decides not to release Greenpoison with the SHAtter exploit, and instead puts their support behind Limera1n. Since Limera1n was rushed, it's buggy at first, but it's improved rapidly to help iron out the bugs.

    So what is the end result? A better future for the Jailbreak community. SHAtter is saved for a later time, and will not be burned in the end. Cooler heads prevailed, and it only benefits us, the community.

    It's quite an interesting story to say the least.
  4. Myzhi macrumors 6502a


    Dec 15, 2009
    This mess could have been avoided if Geohot told about his exploit weeks / months ago, but then, he wouldn't have gotten all the attention. Not surprising move from a attention whore.
  5. Gizmotoy macrumors 65816


    Nov 6, 2003
    Pretty close. Good summary. A few minor things:

    SHAtter's been known to be A4 only since it was announced. I think there was probably some hope that there would be another exploit used for older devices, but no evidence for this was ever provided. SHAtter was always going to be A4 only.

    We don't have bootrom access, but know that iBoot is very similar. That is what provides the suspicion that Apple has already closed this hole and it will be applied the next time devices get a new bootrom. There is no guarantee that Apple doesn't also know about SHAtter, but not releasing details increases its likelihood of persisting. I just hope the SHA part of the name is not giving Apple a clue as to where to look.

    We don't really know for sure what happened here. This seems as likely as any other option, but we don't know this part for certain.

    Everything else looks accurate.
  6. g000 macrumors newbie

    Oct 6, 2008
    thanks for the excellent summary, that does help clear a lot of the false rumors and misunderstanding that led to vicious flames directed at both geohot and CDT. though overly dramatic how the whole thing unraveled, i do agree this turned out in the best scenario possible for the jailbreak community. the order in which the two exploits are released also saved countless 3GS devices out there that would have been left out in the cold.

    shakespeare couldnt have done better
  7. tempusfugit macrumors 65816

    May 21, 2009
    He would have put it in iambic pentameter. :D

    Very well written and thorough summary indeed.

    Honestly, I think chronicdev are the real douches in the situation and that geohot has gotten a bad wrap in most peoples heads because everyone has been hanging on every word from chronicdev for months.

    That being said, geohot seems like an arrogant prodigy type but he certainly knows his was around an iPhone and I'm enjoying limera1n.
  8. gravytrain84 macrumors 6502a


    Jun 24, 2010
    If this is accurate, kudos to GH for bringing out lime allowing 3G 3GS users to JB.
  9. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere


    Apr 16, 2008
    At the iPhone hacks section.
    Pretty much summed it up good.
    TCD was working hard for a while and were excited to finally release their first JB tool and they even put out a release date.
    Then Egohot comes out and steals the spotlight with his own JB and for the good of the community TCD are stuck holding back their greenpoison JB and shatter exploit.
    Geo had his exploit for 5+ months along with the registered domain of limerain and decided to rush out a buggy JB a day before greenpoison is released.
    It kinda worked out good in the end for the JB scene since they did save a valuable exploit and used one that was supposedly known to Apple. But the way George went about it shows again his true colors and narcissism.

  10. elgrecomac macrumors 65816


    Jan 15, 2008
    San Diego
    Thank you for summarizing...

    Much appreciated.
  11. djuarez03 thread starter macrumors regular

    May 23, 2008
    In my opinion, both Geohot and CDT are to blame for the drama. Geohot for not sharing his exploit with the Jailbreak community as soon as he discovered it. Especially since he said he was getting out of the community and not releasing anything anymore. If that was true, he probably would have shared his exploit for others to develop it. At this point, I think we can assume that he did this on purpose so as to make a "grand comeback" when the time was right. But now, at least we know that he wasn't just talking out of his a$$ all those months ago when he said he had found an exploit. And now, with the recent news of him also developing an unlock for all the new basebands, you have to admit, the guy is a genius, even if he is flawed. But tell me, other than Jesus, what other genius can you think of that was not flawed in some way? :)

    But CDT was also to blame for not being able to put their pride aside and realize how they would have shot themselves in the foot if they had released both exploits now. I can understand how they felt at the time, especially after all the hard work they had put into greenpoison. And, according to info I read in the original thread, it appears that they had a reputation of promising more than they could deliver. So imagine their excitement at the prospect of finally delivering something huge for the Jailbreak community, only to have Geohot come in and try to steal some of their limelight (no pun intended). If it was me, I'd be pretty pissed too. But the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and it was obviously the right thing to do to hold back SHAtter.

    I respect both Geohot and CDT, and the Dev Team. But really, this lack of cooperation only hurts us, the Jailbreak community in general. We need to put our petty differences aside and work together if we want to keep the community strong. As much as I love hacking, I hate this culture that has been built up over the years of hacker's need to "one up" everyone else. It doesn't help anyone but their own egos. But I realize that it's something that will probably never go away as it is something that just goes hand-in-hand with the philosophies of hacking. After all, when you think about it, hacking in itself is a statement of "I pwn you". We just have to make sure to direct that at the right people (i.e. Apple's closed environment) and not each other.

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