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What's With Apples Marketing Scheme???
- Thread starter rEd Eye
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I've priced various configurations for Macs versus PCs, and I really don't see this big price gap anymore. I really think it's a discrimination problem at this point, like how women complain that they have to work twice as hard as a male to get the same respect in the workplace. Achieving price parity with PCs doesn't seem to be enough. It seems as if Apple would have to offer far higher quality for a far lower price than anything you could get in the PC world to even make a dent in the "expensive" image Macs have.
The "bargain" PC is an illusion. Sure, you can get the machine, but if you're more than an occasional user, you're going to be dissatisfied with what you get, and if you are an occaional user, you'll probably be frustrated by the machine and blame your own lack of computer skills. The bargain PC you see for under a grand is the equivalent of the reasonably priced car you see in the car commercial, where the fine print says "one at this price." You go to the lot and find that a car with even a modest selection of options is several thousand dollars more.
For the PCs, many people will buy the cheap PC and then spend the next year upgrading components to get the PC they really wanted. They wind up spending MORE money than buying a quality system upfront. It's just spread out over several months. And of course, in a year a base PC system is halfway to obsolescense already.
The "bargain" PC is an illusion. Sure, you can get the machine, but if you're more than an occasional user, you're going to be dissatisfied with what you get, and if you are an occaional user, you'll probably be frustrated by the machine and blame your own lack of computer skills. The bargain PC you see for under a grand is the equivalent of the reasonably priced car you see in the car commercial, where the fine print says "one at this price." You go to the lot and find that a car with even a modest selection of options is several thousand dollars more.
For the PCs, many people will buy the cheap PC and then spend the next year upgrading components to get the PC they really wanted. They wind up spending MORE money than buying a quality system upfront. It's just spread out over several months. And of course, in a year a base PC system is halfway to obsolescense already.
redeye trolling again...
I agree with the last few posts.
Apple has always positioned themselves as the BMW/Mercedes Benz of the computer industry. They sell quality machines. Period.
Why not turn this discussion on it's head?
How about the prices on Windows XP?
$300 - Pro
$200 - Home
Mac OS X - $130
Hmmm, looks like the Mac is a much better value after all. The OS is cheaper, more stable and comes with the unprecedented iApps. No bizarre driver conflicts, IRQ issues, BSODs.
'Nuff said.
I agree with the last few posts.
Apple has always positioned themselves as the BMW/Mercedes Benz of the computer industry. They sell quality machines. Period.
Why not turn this discussion on it's head?
How about the prices on Windows XP?
$300 - Pro
$200 - Home
Mac OS X - $130
Hmmm, looks like the Mac is a much better value after all. The OS is cheaper, more stable and comes with the unprecedented iApps. No bizarre driver conflicts, IRQ issues, BSODs.
'Nuff said.
i think Gelfin had a great answer to this. pcs are MORE expensive. anyone who knows compoents knows this. if you try to build a pc with all the hardware that is in the mac you will get a price very similiar to that of the mac. then you throw in all the software on the pc that is included for free on the mac and you get something much more expensive.
sure when you look at the base model of the pc its cheaper than the base model of the mac, but the macs include all the extras. i dont even think we need to mention the actual benefits of mac over pc, the price itself is a big enough argument.
sure when you look at the base model of the pc its cheaper than the base model of the mac, but the macs include all the extras. i dont even think we need to mention the actual benefits of mac over pc, the price itself is a big enough argument.
i think the only company that scares me is emachines, where you can get a machine and a monitor for 600-700 out the door and a LOT of people will go for that as they already do
a mac is 850+ out the door at best and if we can bring something out at six-something out the door, many of those emachine people will go for the crt imac
i say sell the crt imac for 629.00 for the christmas season this year
and apple should hang on to the old crt imac for at least two more years...it is still a great machine for the masses...and the new imac, well, that machine is the sexiest thing on earth
a mac is 850+ out the door at best and if we can bring something out at six-something out the door, many of those emachine people will go for the crt imac
i say sell the crt imac for 629.00 for the christmas season this year
and apple should hang on to the old crt imac for at least two more years...it is still a great machine for the masses...and the new imac, well, that machine is the sexiest thing on earth
It's so obvious why Apple is failing. Here are the reasons:
- Many people believe that Apple only caters for education and creative markets
- Many people believe that Macs are too expensive
- Many people believe that Macs are a lot slower than other computers
- Many people believe that no apps are out for Macs
- They also believe that Macs are not customisable, and are children's 'toys'.
Macs are also not compatible when used in specific businesses with specific apps. Have you ever tried to use a Mac in a business using apps for cancer scanning or for plane flying. They just don't work on Macs, because Apple doesn't make machines specific for these areas.
However, PCs running Windows do work well in these industries because they have the software, and also have computers made to work specifically in these industries. For instance, a PC might be built into the cancer scanner or onto the plane controls. It's kinda hard to put an iMac into these places, isn't it?
Your views would be apprieciated. I just hope Apple does something.
- Many people believe that Apple only caters for education and creative markets
- Many people believe that Macs are too expensive
- Many people believe that Macs are a lot slower than other computers
- Many people believe that no apps are out for Macs
- They also believe that Macs are not customisable, and are children's 'toys'.
Macs are also not compatible when used in specific businesses with specific apps. Have you ever tried to use a Mac in a business using apps for cancer scanning or for plane flying. They just don't work on Macs, because Apple doesn't make machines specific for these areas.
However, PCs running Windows do work well in these industries because they have the software, and also have computers made to work specifically in these industries. For instance, a PC might be built into the cancer scanner or onto the plane controls. It's kinda hard to put an iMac into these places, isn't it?
Your views would be apprieciated. I just hope Apple does something.
ditto on that madamimadamtimallen.
but still fugies points are well stated. its all beliefs. apple has been working hard lately breaking down those myths and is doing a good job, and i believe is begining to reap the benefits (if they could only ramp up production...)
as far macs not being could for specific apps. this is true of any machine and would change with market share. there are many specific apps that pcs cant do. nearly all genetic sequencing is done using macs. we have a little mac running each of our 3 sequencers. they came with the machines and are included with the machine's warranty. sure we can thinkof lots of specific things macs cant do but there are also lots of things macs can do. largely it is a reflection of market share and how apple has pursued the specific vendor involved.
but still fugies points are well stated. its all beliefs. apple has been working hard lately breaking down those myths and is doing a good job, and i believe is begining to reap the benefits (if they could only ramp up production...)
as far macs not being could for specific apps. this is true of any machine and would change with market share. there are many specific apps that pcs cant do. nearly all genetic sequencing is done using macs. we have a little mac running each of our 3 sequencers. they came with the machines and are included with the machine's warranty. sure we can thinkof lots of specific things macs cant do but there are also lots of things macs can do. largely it is a reflection of market share and how apple has pursued the specific vendor involved.
i didn't really meant apple was unprofitable... but I just think that it could do a lot better, especially in the business fields.
Wow! I dindn't know about gene sequencing on the Mac - thats great that Macs can be used in such specific and important fields. What type of Macs are used and what additions have you made if any?
So I suppose Macs are making a comeback!
So I suppose Macs are making a comeback!
for fugitive: cancer apps or flying planes??
uhh, fugitive, i'll be the first to admit that i don't fly planes or diagnose benign tumors, but i'd be willing to bet that air traffic controllers and medical scientists aren't exactly booting into windows xp...i think it's safe to say there are proprietary hardware and software solely built to run those applications...similar to when you go to a bar and the bartender runs up your tab on a computer, but it sure as hell isn't a mac, or a pc, just a cpu terminal.
uhh, fugitive, i'll be the first to admit that i don't fly planes or diagnose benign tumors, but i'd be willing to bet that air traffic controllers and medical scientists aren't exactly booting into windows xp...i think it's safe to say there are proprietary hardware and software solely built to run those applications...similar to when you go to a bar and the bartender runs up your tab on a computer, but it sure as hell isn't a mac, or a pc, just a cpu terminal.
PC based retail and aviation systems
Er... Windows is used in many retail POS systems - the only retailer I've heard of who uses Mac as the basis for a POS system is the Apple Store though!
PCs are frequently used in a retail environment - whilst in some senses they may seem over-specced for the task, I guess they're so cheap these days it doesn't make that much difference.
The downside is that in the good old days a cash register would not display the blue screen of death!
BTW - I know many British Airways 747s are still using 386 PCs for their navigational system, but I think (hope) they're not running Windows.
Er... Windows is used in many retail POS systems - the only retailer I've heard of who uses Mac as the basis for a POS system is the Apple Store though!
PCs are frequently used in a retail environment - whilst in some senses they may seem over-specced for the task, I guess they're so cheap these days it doesn't make that much difference.
The downside is that in the good old days a cash register would not display the blue screen of death!
BTW - I know many British Airways 747s are still using 386 PCs for their navigational system, but I think (hope) they're not running Windows.
speaking from experience only then
well, i was just speaking from my own retail, and food and bev experience...not once have i ever used a windows POS system (granted, i haven't been working in retail or restaurants since 2000)...as for airline stuff, i clearly said i had no idea whether they utilize windows or not...
well, i was just speaking from my own retail, and food and bev experience...not once have i ever used a windows POS system (granted, i haven't been working in retail or restaurants since 2000)...as for airline stuff, i clearly said i had no idea whether they utilize windows or not...
Re: PC based retail and aviation systems
pos, what a mess that is
it was one of my first jobs out of tech school, the best systems were non pc computerized registers, ...not pcs turned into registers...they would always crash like crazy
in the pos field, the vast majority of registers, at least in northern california, are computerized, non-windows registers and i have never seen a mac register, but that may be cool
pos, what a mess that is
it was one of my first jobs out of tech school, the best systems were non pc computerized registers, ...not pcs turned into registers...they would always crash like crazy
in the pos field, the vast majority of registers, at least in northern california, are computerized, non-windows registers and i have never seen a mac register, but that may be cool
good then, crunch redundant numbers and beat the permutaions and combinations and beat cancer and aids
but what do do about sedintary, fat techies with big hours like me who are definitely taking twenty years off of our life?
wanna see the fattest people on the planet...go to san jose and look at the engineers...computers, jolt cola, burgers, and junk food
like i mentioned before, who has ever seen a techie go to juice club?
Windows used as a POS system
There are plenty of retail case studies on microsoft.com - here's a British one:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/developer/biztalk/marksspencer.htm
"Marks & Spencer installed a single Microsoft Windows NT®-based server in each store, with POS terminals running the Windows NT Workstation operating system."
The retail sector could be another opportunity for Apple - especially with the experience they're developing at the Apple Store - they are probably best positioned to offer a solution in a box for SME retailers.
There are plenty of retail case studies on microsoft.com - here's a British one:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/developer/biztalk/marksspencer.htm
"Marks & Spencer installed a single Microsoft Windows NT®-based server in each store, with POS terminals running the Windows NT Workstation operating system."
The retail sector could be another opportunity for Apple - especially with the experience they're developing at the Apple Store - they are probably best positioned to offer a solution in a box for SME retailers.
Re: PC based retail and aviation systems
A local PC store here in SD uses the old iMacs for its POS systems.
OK, they sell Mac stuff too, but they're not the focus.
A local PC store here in SD uses the old iMacs for its POS systems.
OK, they sell Mac stuff too, but they're not the focus.
Well I broke down,contradicted myself and bought the Dp 1GB tower.
With my "upgrade"I got a shiny new case with Power supply,motherboard,dual 1GB CPU's,1GB Ram,80 GB hard drive,DVD-R,Gigabit ethernet,a "fresh" copy of OS 9,OSX,a bunch of other software that I don't need,56k modem,keyboard and a wonderfull one button mouse,also two blank DVD's,two blank CDR's,modem cable,and some apple stickers.This cost me over $5000 Canadian.
Ok,maybe you know more than me about buying PC's,and if you say it does,I'll believe that it would cost as much to build a comparable PC system.
Now I ask you how much it would cost to buy a comparable PC Motherboard without ram,and the most comparable dual CPU's?
Because that is the only goddam thing that I bought my new mac for!
The rest of it I could have bought as necessary,if necessary,at competitive prices from 3'rd party retailers.Not at Apple Prices,and not things that I did not want.
That is where Apple is ripping us off the worst.If you want the latest greatest for your PC,you go buy the components and stick them in your box,and give away the old ones.If you want the latest greatest for your mac,you sell off your old one for a fraction of what you are about to pay for a bunch of brand new similar components,and buy a new one that looks almost exactly like your old one.(minus the dust on the keyboard)
At least if you buy a BMW,or a Jaguar,you have the option of putting in a new engine if they come out with a more powerfull one,for much less than buying the whole new car would cost.(metaphor)
I am sorry if my sense of logic offends anyone.I,however very much wish that Apple would give us many more options as to how to consume their products,and I think that in the long run,allowing people access to their computer components on an"as needed"basis would open up the Mac portion of the consumer computer market in a very favorable fashion,whilst still providing High quality components to the end user.
I think that about sums my thoughts up.....
Time to get shot down...?
With my "upgrade"I got a shiny new case with Power supply,motherboard,dual 1GB CPU's,1GB Ram,80 GB hard drive,DVD-R,Gigabit ethernet,a "fresh" copy of OS 9,OSX,a bunch of other software that I don't need,56k modem,keyboard and a wonderfull one button mouse,also two blank DVD's,two blank CDR's,modem cable,and some apple stickers.This cost me over $5000 Canadian.
Ok,maybe you know more than me about buying PC's,and if you say it does,I'll believe that it would cost as much to build a comparable PC system.
Now I ask you how much it would cost to buy a comparable PC Motherboard without ram,and the most comparable dual CPU's?
Because that is the only goddam thing that I bought my new mac for!
The rest of it I could have bought as necessary,if necessary,at competitive prices from 3'rd party retailers.Not at Apple Prices,and not things that I did not want.
That is where Apple is ripping us off the worst.If you want the latest greatest for your PC,you go buy the components and stick them in your box,and give away the old ones.If you want the latest greatest for your mac,you sell off your old one for a fraction of what you are about to pay for a bunch of brand new similar components,and buy a new one that looks almost exactly like your old one.(minus the dust on the keyboard)
At least if you buy a BMW,or a Jaguar,you have the option of putting in a new engine if they come out with a more powerfull one,for much less than buying the whole new car would cost.(metaphor)
I am sorry if my sense of logic offends anyone.I,however very much wish that Apple would give us many more options as to how to consume their products,and I think that in the long run,allowing people access to their computer components on an"as needed"basis would open up the Mac portion of the consumer computer market in a very favorable fashion,whilst still providing High quality components to the end user.
I think that about sums my thoughts up.....
Time to get shot down...?
Well I broke down,contradicted myself and bought the Dp 1GB tower.
With my "upgrade"I got a shiny new case with Power supply,motherboard,dual 1GB CPU's,1GB Ram,80 GB hard drive,DVD-R,Gigabit ethernet,a "fresh" copy of OS 9,OSX,a bunch of other software that I don't need,56k modem,keyboard and a wonderfull one button mouse,also two blank DVD's,two blank CDR's,modem cable,and some apple stickers.This cost me over $5000 Canadian.
Ok,maybe you know more than me about buying PC's,and if you say it does,I'll believe that it would cost as much to build a comparable PC system.
Now I ask you how much it would cost to buy a comparable PC Motherboard without ram,and the most comparable dual CPU's?
Because that is the only goddam thing that I bought my new mac for!
The rest of it I could have bought as necessary,if necessary,at competitive prices from 3'rd party retailers.Not at Apple Prices,and not things that I did not want.
That is where Apple is ripping us off the worst.If you want the latest greatest for your PC,you go buy the components and stick them in your box,and give away the old ones.If you want the latest greatest for your mac,you sell off your old one for a fraction of what you are about to pay for a bunch of brand new similar components,and buy a new one that looks almost exactly like your old one.(minus the dust on the keyboard)
At least if you buy a BMW,or a Jaguar,you have the option of putting in a new engine if they come out with a more powerfull one,for much less than buying the whole new car would cost.(metaphor)
I am sorry if my sense of logic offends anyone.I,however very much wish that Apple would give us many more options as to how to consume their products,and I think that in the long run,allowing people access to their computer components on an"as needed"basis would open up the Mac portion of the consumer computer market in a very favorable fashion,whilst still providing High quality components to the end user.
I think that about sums my thoughts up.....
Time to get shot down...? [/B][/QUOTE]
The problem, as I see it, is not that Apple doesn't do but that there isn't the 3rd party to do. The PC is so large that many 3rd-party companies see it worth their while to create upgrades and individual parts at competitive prices. But, when it comes down to it, if you want to upgrade a bit of your machine here and a bit there, you might as well get a whole new machine anyway... but that is just me; if everyone was like me, we would all be on Macs and would all buy new machines.
"The problem, as I see it, is not that Apple doesn't do but that there isn't the 3rd party to do."
That's because Apple will not allow anyone else to manufacture anything Apple related,and want to force "ahem!"(encourage people into buying the whole pre-fab kit every two years.They think i'ts a pretty good scam"ahem!",I mean strategy because it is going to make people spend a lot more on their products than they really need to.Trouble is is that because they don't saturate the market with an affordable option as compared to buying a brand new computer everytime,they have less sales,but at a higher profit margin,and therefore have less exposure on a consumer level,which,I believe hurts their chances of ever being a strong consumer market,even if their products were less expensive.Saturating the market with a product,especially giving people the option to"build"their own macs could do nothing but good for their marketshare.
How can you disagree?It makes so much sense to me.
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"if everyone was like me, we would all be on Macs and would all buy new machines."
Well it is a disposable world.Why stop with computers?
For that matter,I should probably throw away my old monitors,and get something that is more color co-ordinated with my present setup.....
Hey!while I'm at it,I might as well burn down my house because there's some pretty nifty new pr-fab ones featuring right now.They even deliver!
That's because Apple will not allow anyone else to manufacture anything Apple related,and want to force "ahem!"(encourage people into buying the whole pre-fab kit every two years.They think i'ts a pretty good scam"ahem!",I mean strategy because it is going to make people spend a lot more on their products than they really need to.Trouble is is that because they don't saturate the market with an affordable option as compared to buying a brand new computer everytime,they have less sales,but at a higher profit margin,and therefore have less exposure on a consumer level,which,I believe hurts their chances of ever being a strong consumer market,even if their products were less expensive.Saturating the market with a product,especially giving people the option to"build"their own macs could do nothing but good for their marketshare.
How can you disagree?It makes so much sense to me.
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"if everyone was like me, we would all be on Macs and would all buy new machines."
Well it is a disposable world.Why stop with computers?
For that matter,I should probably throw away my old monitors,and get something that is more color co-ordinated with my present setup.....
Hey!while I'm at it,I might as well burn down my house because there's some pretty nifty new pr-fab ones featuring right now.They even deliver!
Apple have already been down that road before and the problems that come along with it are FAR to great. Would you like you mac to have the cred. of your local throw togethet?
As for your sarcasm, nice that you had selective enough reading that you dropped the part about what I said being my opinion. If you don't like it, do something about it but don't bring a tone like that onto me because you think differently to me and have some problem with how a lot of us here like to live. If you don't like the way things are, go somewhere where your sun shines.
No offense, but you are totally off base here. Last year I was looking at Macs and PCs for editing workstations. I prefered working on Macs at school, but, in the end, I went PC because of price. The editing rig I built could go toe to toe w/the top of the line Mac (at that time) and it cost as much as the G4 tower alone (no dual monitors, no extra HDDs, no extra RAM, no RAID card, no editing card). In the end, the G$ (oops) I mean G4
would have cost nearly 3 times as much as the PC. But, you can't run Final Cut Pro on a PC, so I'm currently selling the editing components off my PC and getting ready to sign away my soul for a dual gig G4
. Apple is in a tough position. If they "loosen up" and start to act more the PC companies they risk loosing their biggest bennifet, IMO, which is better hardware and software intergration<sp?> (less conflicts and what not). On the other hand, I wish there was a wider selection of software and hardware for the Mac. I'd love to be able to really build a custom Mac. I dunno... I think Apple is stuck in a catch-22.
Lethal
i think you are taking my comment a little out of context here.
but regardless you make your point. which seems to be since you can configure your pc however you like it is cheaper than a mac that is not so configurable.
what i was saying was that if you took a pc and matched all the components and software between it and the mac you will find that prices are very comparable... in fact in every comparison ive seen and done the pc comes out a few bucks more.
but your point is still taken. since you can configure your pc however you want you can get it cheaper if you dont want all the extras that come with the mac systems.
i like the extras, but many consumers dont and most consumers dont realize they exist at all (while looking for imacs at pre-hike costs i noticed many ~40% of the sites i went to said the imac had a cdrom drive in all its models).
but regardless you make your point. which seems to be since you can configure your pc however you like it is cheaper than a mac that is not so configurable.
what i was saying was that if you took a pc and matched all the components and software between it and the mac you will find that prices are very comparable... in fact in every comparison ive seen and done the pc comes out a few bucks more.
but your point is still taken. since you can configure your pc however you want you can get it cheaper if you dont want all the extras that come with the mac systems.
i like the extras, but many consumers dont and most consumers dont realize they exist at all (while looking for imacs at pre-hike costs i noticed many ~40% of the sites i went to said the imac had a cdrom drive in all its models).
Okie, I see what you are saying. And I agree. Comparing "budget" PCs to anything Mac is misleading 'cause Mac doesn't have "budget" section. It has a "low end" but no "budget."
And if you configure a Dell or Gateway to the same spex as, let's say, the superdrive iMac, then the price gap quickly closes.Getting back on topic... How 'bout them Colts?
Lethal