iPhone Whatsapp messages encrypted in the iCloud?

Hot12345

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 1, 2015
367
33
Hi,

We received all the new update of Whatsapp, I was wondering if you save the messages in iCloud, are they still encrypted?

I mean... Can somebody else read the messages because its on the iCloud? And it's supposed to be encrypted.
 

Hot12345

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 1, 2015
367
33
No, because on the on the FBI case, apple did give the suspect icloud information fully to the FBI..

So I think it's not fully encrypted. Otherwise how can you give encrypted information to the goverment (FBI)
 

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,218
1,584
No, because on the on the FBI case, apple did give the suspect icloud information fully to the FBI..

So I think it's not fully encrypted. Otherwise how can you give encrypted information to the goverment (FBI)
Apple and only apple can access your iCloud backup. It requires a warrant for such access. Are you a terrorist?
 

GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
3,265
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No, because on the on the FBI case, apple did give the suspect icloud information fully to the FBI..

So I think it's not fully encrypted. Otherwise how can you give encrypted information to the goverment (FBI)
I believe it's encrypted but Apple have a key which they can and will give up in certain circumstances.

So yes disable iCloud backup if paranoid, but then again, if you're paranoid how can you really trust whatsapp's encryption methods
 

KALLT

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2008
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3,000
No, because on the on the FBI case, apple did give the suspect icloud information fully to the FBI..

So I think it's not fully encrypted. Otherwise how can you give encrypted information to the goverment (FBI)
It is fully encrypted. The question you need to ask is: who has the key to decrypt it? With iCloud, Apple has that key. Only iCloud Keychain and iMessage are encrypted end-to-end, i.e. Apple does not have the keys. However, we don’t know what WhatsApp actually backs up to iCloud. They would upload only encrypted data to iCloud. I think that is unlikely though, as WhatsApp can be restored on any device that has your iCloud data without a separate password.
 

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,218
1,584
It is fully encrypted. The question you need to ask is: who has the key to decrypt it? With iCloud, Apple has that key. Only iCloud Keychain and iMessage are encrypted end-to-end, i.e. Apple does not have the keys. However, we don’t know what WhatsApp actually backs up to iCloud. They would upload only encrypted data to iCloud. I think that is unlikely though, as WhatsApp can be restored on any device that has your iCloud data without a separate password.
Technically true but iMessages stored in an iCloud backup are technically accessible.
 

Hot12345

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 1, 2015
367
33
If I make a fully backup of my phone with the encryption of my Whatsapp conversation, can Apple also read the conversation of whatsapp? In that backup I made to Icloud?

Just a time a go, Apple did help the FBI to give the information that's storage in the Icloud of the terrorist. So for example if there was a backup of the Whatsapp conventions, is it accessible?

Soo if so, what's the point of encryption whatsapp messages...
 

Gav2k

macrumors G3
Jul 24, 2009
9,218
1,584
If I make a fully backup of my phone with the encryption of my Whatsapp conversation, can Apple also read the conversation of whatsapp? In that backup I made to Icloud?

Just a time a go, Apple did help the FBI to give the information that's storage in the Icloud of the terrorist. So for example if there was a backup of the Whatsapp conventions, is it accessible?

Soo if so, what's the point of encryption whatsapp messages...
Before if someone would be able to read your messages in transmission now they cannot. Nothing more nothing less.
 

KALLT

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2008
4,921
3,000
If I make a fully backup of my phone with the encryption of my Whatsapp conversation, can Apple also read the conversation of whatsapp? In that backup I made to Icloud?

Just a time a go, Apple did help the FBI to give the information that's storage in the Icloud of the terrorist. So for example if there was a backup of the Whatsapp conventions, is it accessible?
My guess is that Apple can read it. Apple has the keys to iCloud data and could give someone access to it. I do not think that WhatsApp encrypts messages on the device before backing them up to iCloud. That would require that (a) you can set a separate password before backing up or that (b) the backup cannot be restored on another device, which means that the private keys are not stored with iCloud. Neither seems to be the case, so if you use iCloud to back up your WhatsApp messages, Apple could read them.

Soo if so, what's the point of encryption whatsapp messages...
The point is that WhatsApp messages are encrypted between sender and recipient. You can be assured that only the recipient can read your messages. Even if these messages were stolen in transit, nobody else could read them. Once these messages are on your device and decrypted, the security of these messages hinges upon the security of your device. iPhones are themselves encrypted by default for exactly this purpose. Your messages are thus secure on that device. If you use iCloud, then you entrust Apple your unencrypted data. Convenience versus security, your choice.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Apple and only apple can access your iCloud backup. It requires a warrant for such access. Are you a terrorist?
Somebody doesn't know how the FISA courts work or how much of the War on Terror stuff has been used primarily for normal law enforcement.
 

GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
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1,550
of course, though if those messages are (now) encrypted, apple and other authorities will get garbage. Unless they can decode that too, with say whatsapp's help.
the messages are unencrypted on your phone (that's how you can read them) and then - if you use icloud backup - backed up in an encrypted backup that apple have the key to
 

electronicsguy

macrumors 6502a
Oct 12, 2015
531
207
Pune, India
You said they would get garbage, so I was confused. Apple will not get garbage imo
If whatsapp messages themselves are encrypted, the encrypted message is stored, on icloud, with its own encryption. Obviously, Apple will get garbage if they decrypt your icloud storage, unless they also have whatsapp's private keys. The messages are only decrypted for your to view on the phone. When whatsapp uses its Apple's developer API to use icloud storage, it'll be putting the encrypted messages there. (at least in theory :) )
 
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GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
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If whatsapp messages themselves are encrypted, the encrypted message is stored, on icloud, with its own encryption. Obviously, Apple will get garbage if they decrypt your icloud storage, unless they also have whatsapp's private keys. The messages are only decrypted for your to view on the phone. When whatsapp uses its Apple's developer API to use icloud storage, it'll be putting the encrypted messages there. (at least in theory :) )
gotcha, thanks
 

Hot12345

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 1, 2015
367
33
If whatsapp messages themselves are encrypted, the encrypted message is stored, on icloud, with its own encryption. Obviously, Apple will get garbage if they decrypt your icloud storage, unless they also have whatsapp's private keys. The messages are only decrypted for your to view on the phone. When whatsapp uses its Apple's developer API to use icloud storage, it'll be putting the encrypted messages there. (at least in theory :) )
So the is it the Whatsapp end to end encryption not readable (messages) for Apple?l in the iCloud?
 

Hot12345

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 1, 2015
367
33
My point is, Whatsapp did the end to end encryption, so it's basically not readable without the key. But I store my messages of Whatsapp (end to end) in the ICloud, so can Apple read the messages of the Whatsapp?

They got the key ofcourse for the icloud, but for exampe, if a govement wants the backup of particular backup (example, my backup) can the goverment read those messages of whatsapp in the backup?