When is Apple going to release a fully weather sealed laptop?

[ignatius345]

The problem with 'in the field' computing is that you have money people making the decisions rather than practical people making the decisions. I work in the electronics repair industry and I have seen thousands of Apple ipads get damaged by 'in the field' workers because the ipad can just not handle the vigour's of 'in the field' use. I've seen Panasonic toughbooks take some real beatings, caught in a torrential downpour of rain, covered in mud, oil, food liquids (from manufacturing plants), run over by cars and they still go on working 100%. Drop an ipad on the company concrete floor and BAM, screen is broken, frame is dented and depending where the damage is, the home button not work, or the power button or the volume buttons.

Panasonic make some excellent toughbook tablets. There is 100% a market out there for mac os ruggedized laptops. If Apple was prepared to make a VR headset knowing it's take up would be low, they can surely make a ruggedized laptop which in my opinion would sell more numbers than the VR headset but oh look, Apple made a VR headset that has not sold as well as they expected and yet they are going to make other versions. A ruggedized macbook would sell much much better in my opinion.

This is why Tim Cook is not the man for Apple any more because he does not have the vison on where to take Apple products like Steve Jobs did.

Yes, they'd move hundreds, if not a full thousand ruggedized MacBooks every year.

If you're so convinced someone could make a killing on these, by all means get some talent and some investors together and find out yourself.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I think because the cost of engineering and producing that would not be justified by how few Apple would actually sell every year.

The market for ruggedized laptops skews heavily toward governmental orgs (first responders, etc), the military, and industrial applications -- and all those users are overwhelmingly based on Windows and have been for decades. Besides, these days much "in the field" computing is just handled by tablets are inherently easier to ruggedize. Anyone can just slap an Otterbox or whatever onto an iPad or Android tablet at minimal cost.

I suppose an aftermarket firm could make ruggedized Macs by re-housing existing MacBooks, but I'm not convinced it's a big enough niche to even justify that cottage industry.

Forget Apple for a minute. Even HP and Dell wouldn’t touch it. Too many resources,R&D and high manufacturing cost for lower volumes. There are very few models which cater to this niche. Now if US DOD wants to give a fat contract worth billions, it may make sense. Companies that send out folks in rugged field conditions aren’t spending thousands of dollars on a laptop.

 

[cjsuk]

I’ve worked in defence and there are little to no applications that would benefit from running on a Mac.

Also the big defence companies don’t buy toughbooks because they break pretty easily. They make their own in house things. We had a whole department dedicated to that to give you an idea.

 

[DeepSix]

I don’t think you have to carry any of the things you listed. Those are all personal preferences.
For example, I have never known nor heard of anyone wearing latex gloves while using a computer.

I've found these items are a must but all in different ways. MacBooks are major dust magnets and it requires constant wipe downs. Latex gloves helps when you are unable to wash your hands especially if you just ate something like a burger. I wouldn't want that grease to get all over the laptop.

I've even now settled to live with with dryer hands and only moisturize my hands before bed, so by then I won't be touching the MacBook until the next day.

 

[NewOldStock]

Remote operations is mosty Microsoft or Linux or government operating systems on portable devices and hardened military hardware. Mac OS not used as much.

 

[Steve121178]

If there was such a market for Macs a more likely solution than Apple making one is a third party offering them using a Mac as the parts source or working out a deal with Apple to get the needed parts. Since those type of use cases are probably more interested in durability than price it could be a profitable niche; my guess is much of the software that would be used doesn't run on a Mac and thus even if you built the machine it would not have a market.

A lot of apps those kind of engineers use tend to be very old reliable stuff that runs on Windows. Probably nowadays Linux based. Rugged PC's just isn't the market or place for Macs or macOS.

 

[fatTribble]

I've found these items are a must but all in different ways. MacBooks are major dust magnets and it requires constant wipe downs. Latex gloves helps when you are unable to wash your hands especially if you just ate something like a burger. I wouldn't want that grease to get all over the laptop.

I've even now settled to live with with dryer hands and only moisturize my hands before bed, so by then I won't be touching the MacBook until the next day.

I’ve never heard of anyone going to such great lengths to protect an Apple product.

Congratulations? 🤔

 

[jlc1978]

A lot of apps those kind of engineers use tend to be very old reliable stuff that runs on Windows. Probably nowadays Linux based. Rugged PC's just isn't the market or place for Macs or macOS.

Exactly. The idea Apple should chase every market, no matter how niche, makes no sense and would be a strategy for failure. A small market that is likely to grow significantly makes sense to enter and establish an early foothold, but those markets are very different than niche ones where a few established players likely are the dominant companies.

 

[wyliej]

Forget Apple for a minute. Even HP and Dell wouldn’t touch it. Too many resources,R&D and high manufacturing cost for lower volumes. There are very few models which cater to this niche. Now if US DOD wants to give a fat contract worth billions, it may make sense. Companies that send out folks in rugged field conditions aren’t spending thousands of dollars on a laptop.

Dell does sell the Rugged Latitude line (which likely got re-named). They are pretty decent machines, actually, and they have both semi-rugged and fully-rugged models.

As far as I know, HP has no equivalent.

 

[Moonjumper]

There wasn't a massive call for waterproofed iPhones, but we have them, and they are great. No worries if caught in the rain, or spilling a drink (pre-iPhone I had one phone lose most of the screen after a sudden storm, but managed to recover with careful drying, but another died when it accidentally fell in a drink).

An iPhone and a MacBook both have a battery, a screen, speakers, chips, cameras, and USB-C ports. The only thing a MacBook has that a waterproof iPhone does not is a physical keyboard.

The OP seems obsessional, but isn't asking for ruggedised, just weather sealed. It isn't too much to hope for.

 

[jlc1978]

There wasn't a massive call for waterproofed iPhones, but we have them, and they are great.

iPhones are not waterproof, just water resistant; and that resistance can change overtime. It’s not designed to be used in water, but can withstand some exposure.

 

[960design]

With a IP68 rating like all phones have. So you can use it in water or hose it down after and not have to worry about water damage. Want to clean the keyboard or screen? No problem just run it under the sink.

There was a couple of companies working on it a decade ago. I do know what happened to them.

 

[Parowdy]

MacBook Ultra seems like a reasonable evolutionary step.

 

[Moonjumper]

iPhones are not waterproof, just water resistant; and that resistance can change overtime. It’s not designed to be used in water, but can withstand some exposure.

Technically not waterproof, but IP68, meaning submerged for up to 30 minutes at 6 metres depth, is much more than what most people would consider "some exposure". Having even a fraction of that protection would prevent a lot of cases of water damage to MacBooks.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Dell does sell the Rugged Latitude line (which likely got re-named). They are pretty decent machines, actually, and they have both semi-rugged and fully-rugged models.

As far as I know, HP has no equivalent.

Dell has some models that are IP65 water resistant laptops and none are water proof. They won’t last a day if OP uses the way he wants to with that rating. iPhone has a higher rating than the Dell rugged laptops.
Those Dell models are ridiculously expensive.

 

[jlc1978]

Technically not waterproof, but IP68, meaning submerged for up to 30 minutes at 6 metres depth,

For Samsung, it's 1.5 meters and for 30 minutes:

With an IP68 rating, they are water resistant in fresh water to a maximum depth of 1.5 metres for up to 30 minutes, and are protected from dust - all without the need for extra cases or covers.

The 6 is the solid protection and the 8 the water in the standard.

Interestingly, no actual depth and duration is specified, just that it is more severe than 7 (page 59).

is much more than what most people would consider "some exposure".

However, that protection degrades over time so there is no assurance it can always survive that fater some period of time. As with all specs, it is a carefully controlled test with new devices in optimum conditions. It's good that it is sealed well, but at best it is water resistant. That is for fresh water, not salt.

Having even a fraction of that protection would prevent a lot of cases of water damage to MacBooks.

Having it for the keyboard, where most water damage is likely to occur, would be nice. I'm not sure how that would impact key feel or if it is really practical to do it well enough to make the Mac more water resistant.

 

[subjonas]

I think Apple would make a water-resistant iPad before a weather-sealed MacBook.

How does an air-cooled laptop that is weather-sealed still have air flow?

 

[Moonjumper]

For Samsung, it's 1.5 meters and for 30 minutes:

With an IP68 rating, they are water resistant in fresh water to a maximum depth of 1.5 metres for up to 30 minutes, and are protected from dust - all without the need for extra cases or covers.

The 6 is the solid protection and the 8 the water in the standard.

Interestingly, no actual depth and duration is specified, just that it is more severe than 7 (page 59).





However, that protection degrades over time so there is no assurance it can always survive that fater some period of time. As with all specs, it is a carefully controlled test with new devices in optimum conditions. It's good that it is sealed well, but at best it is water resistant. That is for fresh water, not salt.



Having it for the keyboard, where most water damage is likely to occur, would be nice. I'm not sure how that would impact key feel or if it is really practical to do it well enough to make the Mac more water resistant.

For clarity, as we were discussing the iPhone, I went with the value Apple gives for the iPhone 16, not with a Samsung.

Rated IP68 (maximum depth of 6 metres up to 30 minutes) under IEC standard 60529

https://www.apple.com/uk/iphone-16/specs/

 

[jlc1978]

For clarity, as we were discussing the iPhone, I went with the value Apple gives for the iPhone 16, not with a Samsung.


https://www.apple.com/uk/iphone-16/specs/

Yea, each manufacturer apparently can set their own definition of an 8

 

[russell_314]

With a IP68 rating like all phones have. So you can use it in water or hose it down after and not have to worry about water damage. Want to clean the keyboard or screen? No problem just run it under the sink.

I would buy one instantly. It would eliminate a lot of things that I already have to carry with my laptop. I've never had to carry these items with any other laptop I've ever owned in my life.

Latex gloves for when I need to use the laptop but I'm unable to wash my hands prior. This prevents oil and grease stains especially on the keyboard.

Small soft brush for wiping away keyboard dust.

Two small microfiber cloths for dusting the screen. One stays dry in case I need to wet one the other one.

USB-C to USB-A adapter

Sanitizer in case I'm unable to wash my hands prior and don't have enough time to put on the latex gloves.

A pack of Oil absorbing sheets. If I need something that's quicker to take the oil out of my hands before touching the laptop.

A headlamp. I used to use the flashlight on my phone but since I touch my phone then the dirt just going to get transferred from there to the laptop. So by using a headlamp I'm completely hands-free.

The other day I had my laptop in just the sleeve. Boy I'll never do that again. Lesson learned. I had a heck of a time getting all the dust out before closing the lid. And the next thing you know I had fingerprints on the screen. So I drove 30 minutes home just to clean the screen because I didn't want to risk damaging it.

Are you using your laptop at a crime scene where there’s a lot of blood or something else?

If your work involves getting your hands either bloody or some type of oils/solvent then I wouldn’t recommend a MacBook. I know there are keyboard covers, but they can make the typing experience terrible

I just use mine at home and I never use any kind of special cleaner or whatever. Once every so often when I’m thinking about it, I blow out the keys with an air duster and wipe down the screen with a damp microfiber cloth. I even eat while I’m using my MacBook.

The only caution I might add for home use is if you’re eating something really greasy with your hands like french fries or chicken wings to wipe your hands with some sort of wet wipe before using the keyboard. This also applies to eating in your car. I’ve seen plastic steering wheel buttons completely destroyed by greasy fingers.

 

[Grey Area]

How does an air-cooled laptop that is weather-sealed still have air flow?

Sealed laptops like Toughbooks are usually either fanless (using the chunky metal housing as a heatsink, combined with modest CPU and thermal throttling), or they do have a fan, but it is technically outside the hardware: i.e. the computing components sit in a sealed compartment and transfer their heat away via heatpipes, and the fan cools the outside of this.

 

[Grey Area]

However, that protection degrades over time so there is no assurance it can always survive that fater some period of time. As with all specs, it is a carefully controlled test with new devices in optimum conditions. It's good that it is sealed well, but at best it is water resistant. That is for fresh water, not salt.

Yeah, these are reasons why I really dislike "civilian" consumer eletronics being advertised with IP-ratings. Manufacturers are happy to tout IP-ratings and submersion-meters and pictures of phones splashing around at the beach - yet the warranty terms exclude any water damage, and if a phone gets water-damaged, the owner is assumed to have abused it beyond the IP-rating limits.

And exceeding the limits is easy to do, because they are intricate: e.g. salt vs fresh water, or how "higher" IP-levels do not always include the protections of "lower" levels (submersion-capable IPX8 cannot necessarily handle the water jets of IPX6, so careful about hosing down submersible electronics).

And only a sample device is tested, not every single device being sold, so your IP68-rated phone may actually have a manufacturing flaw that means it cannot handle any water at all, but good luck proving that when it drowns and the manufacturer points at the warranty terms.

 

[ralph_sws]

never

 

[jlc1978]

Yeah, these are reasons why I really dislike "civilian" consumer eletronics being advertised with IP-ratings. Manufacturers are happy to tout IP-ratings and submersion-meters and pictures of phones splashing around at the beach - yet the warranty terms exclude any water damage, and if a phone gets water-damaged, the owner is assumed to have abused it beyond the IP-rating limits.

Interestingly, the spec focuses on water damage, not intrusion. As long as the water does case harmful effects, a device meets the spec. That means, if a water sensor is triggered it could still void the warranty without actual damage to the phone.

 

[SalisburySam]

When is Apple going to release a fully weather sealed laptop?​

Both Kuo and Gurman have stated rumored dates of Wednesday, 36 August 2098 so you can take that to the bank.

Er, not really.