When many consumers complaint, companies listen

sandblaster

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 23, 2009
15
0
NYC
I am a MAC user since 1983 and I agree that the computers Apple sales are practical and reliable and there is a justification for their price. The point I am trying to make is that when I bought my first Macintosh it was expensive comparing to other computers but it was understood that an American made product is costly, although after the years we keep buying them at a high price and their are made abroad. I find very unfair that we consume products sold by American companies who their only interest is to obtain more profit, in the case of Apple the millions of items brought to the States are not giving any benefit to the consumer and or the the economy, could be fair that at list the items sold here are made here.
 

noisycats

macrumors 6502a
Jun 1, 2010
771
857
The 'ham. Alabama.
I find very unfair that we consume products sold by American companies who their only interest is to obtain more profit, in the case of Apple the millions of items brought to the States are not giving any benefit to the consumer and or the the economy, could be fair that at list the items sold here are made here.
Hardly any of this makes sense, and the part that does ... wait ... there isn't any part.

What is unfair? Stop consuming the offending product.
What company isn't interested in profit?
How am I not benefitting from Apple products?
Or the economy?
Since Apple is sold all over the world, should they be built everywhere?

I recommend starting over.
 

Aragornii

macrumors 6502
Jun 25, 2010
421
57
What a rambling, incoherent post. If you're suffering from a delusion that Apple, Inc. does not benefit the US economy or consumers, you're free not to buy Apple products.
 

melva

macrumors member
Jul 28, 2011
31
0
Really

When you find a computer made in the USA post it here. Hopefully it will be one that supports employees nationwide in retail stores, keeps delivery services busy, creates collateral industries like app development and creates products that people will,stand in line to buy.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,248
1,319
I find very unfair that we consume products sold by American companies who their only interest is to obtain more profit, in the case of Apple the millions of items brought to the States are not giving any benefit to the consumer and or the the economy, could be fair that at list the items sold here are made here.
FWIW, this headline is from two days ago:
Apple to create 3,600 jobs at new $304 million campus in Texas

And you know how many of them are monotonous entry-level assembly-line positions (which seems to the type of jobs you're upset about being overseas)? Zero

Also, this is from a week or two ago, but it's Apples tabulation on the it's contribution towards US jobs:
http://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/
 

eawmp1

macrumors 601
Feb 19, 2008
4,130
5
FL
3 posts in 2 threads separated by 27 months on dissatisfaction with Apple as a company.

OP, what is your issue with Apple?
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,484
87
An Island in the Salish Sea
This link http://open.salon.com/blog/steven_rockford/2010/08/18/there_is_no_silicon_left_in_silicon_valley_1 will help you to see what happened and why the standard of living decreased on the people who are not cutout to be behind a desk. The article was written by a professional who knows what he is talking about.
So? This is not a unique thing. The USA initially started as an agricultural society, and created wealth by "stealing" industrial jobs from other countries. The same will happen... has already happened. It used to be Japan that made the things we used. Now it's China. Perhaps it will be Brazil next?

The USA got rich by promoting free-trade (sometimes aggressively) when it suited them. Now that others are out-competing the USA you want to close the doors. That's not how free-trade works. You want free-trade... learn to compete again.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
I am a MAC user since 1983 and I agree that the computers Apple sales are practical and reliable and there is a justification for their price. The point I am trying to make is that when I bought my first Macintosh it was expensive comparing to other computers but it was understood that an American made product is costly, although after the years we keep buying them at a high price and their are made abroad. I find very unfair that we consume products sold by American companies who their only interest is to obtain more profit, in the case of Apple the millions of items brought to the States are not giving any benefit to the consumer and or the the economy, could be fair that at list the items sold here are made here.
LOL.

Youre' waaaaayyy out of touch.

While you're at it, send me the device you're posting from. It'll help absolve you of your colossal guilt. I'm here to help.
 

sandblaster

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 23, 2009
15
0
NYC
Answer for LTD

Hi, there
You probably did not read the entire comment, what I meant was that my first computer was a Macintosh, I am a designer for a well known glass etching company and we own 3 Macs tower pro, a mac Book Pro, Ipad II ( we have to upgrade) and an iPhone 4 (3g) even upgrading to 4S does not give me 4g. I hope this is satisfying for curiosity. And yes I am one more consumer who is being bombarded with technology made somewhere else and not having the choose of purchasing an American made product, which what I would like to do.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,248
1,319
And yes I am one more consumer who is being bombarded with technology made somewhere else and not having the choose of purchasing an American made product, which what I would like to do.
Have a go at this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all

Almost all of the 70 million iPhones, 30 million iPads and 59 million other products Apple sold last year were manufactured overseas.

Why can’t that work come home? Mr. Obama asked.

Mr. Jobs’s reply was unambiguous. “Those jobs aren’t coming back,” he said, according to another dinner guest.

The president’s question touched upon a central conviction at Apple. It isn’t just that workers are cheaper abroad. Rather, Apple’s executives believe the vast scale of overseas factories as well as the flexibility, diligence and industrial skills of foreign workers have so outpaced their American counterparts that “Made in the U.S.A.” is no longer a viable option for most Apple products.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
Hi, there
You probably did not read the entire comment, what I meant was that my first computer was a Macintosh, I am a designer for a well known glass etching company and we own 3 Macs tower pro, a mac Book Pro, Ipad II ( we have to upgrade) and an iPhone 4 (3g) even upgrading to 4S does not give me 4g. I hope this is satisfying for curiosity. And yes I am one more consumer who is being bombarded with technology made somewhere else and not having the choose of purchasing an American made product, which what I would like to do.
Ok, so what do you want us to do about it?

Deal with reality, already.

America simply cannot compete in manufacturing (and likely won't anytime soon.)

There. Now you know.
 

boss.king

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2009
3,238
54
Ok, so what do you want us to do about it?

Deal with reality, already.

America simply cannot compete in manufacturing (and likely won't anytime soon.)

There. Now you know.
I rarely agree with you, but you're spot on with this.
 

decafjava

macrumors 68040
Feb 7, 2011
3,202
2,630
Geneva
Do you even have a million people total that live in Canada?! :rolleyes: :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada?GXHC_gx_session_id_FutureTenseContentServer=cd82c32981b41aca#Demographics

The 2011 Canadian census counted a total population of 33,476,688, an increase of around 5.9% over the 2006 figure.[6][157] Between 1990 and 2008, the population of Canada increased by 5.6 million, equivalent to 20.4% growth, compared to 21.7% growth in the United States and 31.2% growth in Mexico over the same period.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,248
1,319
sar·casm   [sahr-kaz-uhm]
noun
1.
harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2.
a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.
 

sandblaster

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 23, 2009
15
0
NYC
Answer for snberk103

I am sorry it took a wild to respond but I am busy producing American made items and competing with the countries you had mentioned. For your comments I realize that you are in touch with reality much better then the other critics of my post. Are you talking about Government or Corporations stealing industrial jobs from other Countries?. I do not know how old you are, but history shows that the prosperity of our Country started not only with nationals also with the help of foreigners coming to the States for a better future and standard of living which could not get in their Countries, USA was the promised land and for many years we were the suppliers of goods, ideas, inventions, technology and the best economy in the world until the corporate greediness realized that will be more profitable to produce abroad with chip labor not caring for the ones who made them prosperous. My disappointment is not about Apple only, the reason I mention the firm, first because we are in the forum and second we provably are the major consumers of their products.
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,484
87
An Island in the Salish Sea
I am sorry it took a wild to respond but I am busy producing American made items and competing with the countries you had mentioned.....I mention the firm, first because we are in the forum and second we provably are the major consumers of their products.
To answer your question - Old enough to know better not to answer that question. :) But I will say that when I took my 1st computer programming course (and only one) .... we used punch cards.

I don't know that you can separate government and corporate interests when talking about the industrialization of the US. Certainly the money for building and expanding factories was private sector, but the complete lack of environmental standards and labour protection laws at that time was a government policy. Like all democracies those two things were going hand-in-hand. It was only later that environmental protection and child labour laws were implemented, rules to control the sweat shops in the NY tenements were enforced, etc etc. However, during that time lots of other countries found their ways of life - and their industrial bases - changed forever because they either couldn't compete with American made goods, or they had to change their way of doing things in order to compete.

One of the aspects that you - personally - are displaying that drives us non-American nations batty is the common (among Americans) notion that the USA is responsible for all things good.
...we were the suppliers of goods, ideas, inventions, technology and the best economy in the world...
No, you weren't. You were one of those suppliers, but you didn't have that monopoly.

Yes... people came to the USA to get a better life. They also came to Canada, the UK, Australia, Israel, and I'm sure I'm missing a few.
Yes ... The USA provided the world with some wonderful ideas and inventions. But so did other parts of the world.

Many people from my part of the world get a little touchy on this subject because we get, admittedly, both the benefits of free-trade with our American cousins - but we also see that the American definition of "free-trade" is also a tool to bludgeon us when it suits you. Now it seems that "free-trade" means "free and open" when the US can export, but closed and full of conditions when someone can actually compete with American industries.

Americans want to export their goods - and make no mistake, America is still an exporting country - using free-trade provisions. But Americans are not so keen on free-trade when someone is actually competing efficiently.

To be fair, America is not the only country that tries to create favourable trading conditions.... but they are the only country that brags loudly, constantly, and repetitively about the benefits of free-trade while restricting it. Sort of like bragging about how democratic you are.
 

sandblaster

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 23, 2009
15
0
NYC
Tis is time consuming but instructive

Based on your wards I gather that you are not living in America and I understand your position in the matter, obviously ones does not want to loose benefits that ones has in its own country. We mast not forget that the environmental and labor standards were inherited by the Europeans who ruled the land and that was what our founding fathers learned as young reformers but you are recognizing that time and experience changed all that for the better and we do not make chidden, men and women work in sweat shops any more although some Countries still do making an unfair and disgusting competition in the world market.
Regarding the Countries who had to adapt and improve their way of life and industrial bases they understood that there is other life after socialism and communism or living of the government, in regards to goods logically if they want to compete something has to be done. Nobody can blame Americans for being agresive or you prefer to wast time and life during "siesta"(nap).
We are proud and responsible for being good people because many countries in the world subsist helped bay our tax dollars which our governments spread around, although our balance sheet is the negative with respect to imports and exports and that is a fact.
"we love everybody in the world, that is way we are the first ones to lend a hand to whomever is in need whiteout expectations, always with optimism for the better, but the world is not seeing it"
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,484
87
An Island in the Salish Sea
Based on your wards I gather that you are not living in America and I understand your position in the matter, obviously ones does not want to loose benefits that ones has in its own country.
Yes... that little bit of land just north of the USA. However, I used to be an American - and apparently I may have become one again....
We mast not forget that the environmental and labor standards were inherited by the Europeans who ruled the land and that was what our founding fathers learned as young reformers....
That reason only works for, say a century? At most. Which brings us to the civil war, and beginning of industrialization. And - finally - the abolition of slavery (which the Europeans had already abolished). After that... the initial European Colonial influence can't really be blamed.
... some Countries still do making an unfair and disgusting competition in the world market.
I agree...it is a practice that needs to come to an end. My point is that it is hypocritical to say "You shouldn't do it because we don't do it." Part of the reason the US achieved its power is precisely because it used sweatshops and child labour... and has conveniently forgotten that fact. It is the preaching from a tarnished pillar that I object to. Would it not be better to push for better working conditions by admitting that those practices have long term consequences that make the gains short-lived. And to admit that you (the USA) have learned this hard way... ?
...
We are proud and responsible for being good people because many countries in the world subsist helped bay our tax dollars which our governments spread around ....
Yes. Thank you for helping out the international aid efforts. Your contributions are appreciated, and they make a huge difference. But you are not unique.
although our balance sheet is the negative with respect to imports and exports and that is a fact.
So? Many countries are in the same boat. Many countries have a trade deficit with the USA. Should they unilaterally be able to restrict American goods and services in order to protect their jobs? Because that is the flip side to doing away with free-trade.... the nations that the USA trades into also get to restrict imports.

You may not have noticed, but the world is busy signing and expanding free-trade agreements among themselves. Canada is busy finalizing free-trade arrangements with the European Union, the Pacific Rim (I forget their formal name) and South America.

We don't wish the USA ill-will.... we are just saying that it's time to learn to compete again. America has the people and the resources... imho - it's the corporate structure that's borked. There is a saying, Churchill I believe, who basically said that the Americans will always do the right thing.... after they've tried everything else...

I know you'll get it figured out.... But in mean time... Americans do not have the "right" to make export industrial goods just because they're American.
"we love everybody in the world, that is way we are the first ones to lend a hand to whomever is in need whiteout expectations, always with optimism for the better, but the world is not seeing it"
Ok.. I'm glad you think so...
 

sandblaster

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 23, 2009
15
0
NYC
Ok

Good chatting with you, we just have a different opinion on the matter, I guess we need hard proof of the facts to really decide who is right or wrong, by the way, I am glad you decided to became an American again that way we might be on the same side of the fence.
George, NYC
 

Aragornii

macrumors 6502
Jun 25, 2010
421
57
Ok, so what do you want us to do about it?

Deal with reality, already.

America simply cannot compete in manufacturing (and likely won't anytime soon.)

There. Now you know.


This is absolutely not true. America is the world's largest manufacturer, and our share of overall global manufacturing has not declined in 40 years. The fact that manufacturing is a smaller part of our economy than it was is because our economy has expanded in other areas, which is a good thing.
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,484
87
An Island in the Salish Sea
Good chatting with you, we just have a different opinion on the matter, I guess we need hard proof of the facts to really decide who is right or wrong, by the way, I am glad you decided to became an American again that way we might be on the same side of the fence.
George, NYC
I didn't decide to become an American again... the US changed some rules - unilaterally - that changed my status. It actually makes my life more difficult.

I'm not sure what facts you are looking for? I've stated some facts, and you've quoted me back the standard platitudes. Americans are generally nice, generous people. But Americans are also generally out of touch with the way the world outside their borders work, and their own history.

I like Americans, generally. But I find American attitudes frustrating.

It's been nice chatting.