When will it end?

[handsome pete]

This forum is the definition of a first world problem. No new mac pro? How ever will you show off to all your other friends that you have the fastest mac out there...

And yet here you are, commenting on others' comments.

Editing video (while horsepower is required) has not reached a new plateau the requires these mythical 12GB video cards, unless you are working in 4K and higher, which is on the cusp of breaking into mainstream media, and even then, is supported through FCSX.

I don't think anyone anywhere has claimed that their work "requires" new hardware. But I think you're misguided to think that current hardware wouldn't make a dramatic difference in one's workflow. I was rendering out photo realistic imagery and animations with Maya on my G5 tower 5 years ago, but I wouldn't dare do the same today when I can cut my render times drastically.

While Apple has remained dormant in the workstation department, others have moved on. Simply put, there are better options out there now that will allow me to get my work done faster and more efficiently. I have been in the market for a new workstation for quite some time and was eager to see what Apple would offer. But it's no longer in my best interest to wait another year so I'm heading back to Windows.

 

[kaputsport]

So you're one of the ones who bought it purely for the image of having the fastest mac and your bitching on the forums about the other people who did the same thing as you but are upset because their isn't a newer fastest mac. You sir, are a troll. I think you'd be surprised how many people in here use their pro for actual money making work and could possibly push the boundaries of it's potential and by an updated computer could be more efficient in their work flow.

I am not one of these. I don't own a pro. I'm merely an admirer who hopes to someday have a job that actually requires one.

I do not consider myself a true pro at this point, as I am not making a living with my machine. I do however work in Cinema 4D, FCSX and Logic on a daily basis, perfecting and honing my craft. Sorry, I should have mentioned we have a $60K studio as a hobby. My bad. Someday, I will be considered a true Pro. I bought a 2008 Mac Pro, because my iMac was incapable of handling my documentary project in FCSX, and I NEEDED more power. My pro fit the bill under the cost of a new iMac, even including the 30" cinema display.

The funniest part about this whole thing, is the responses are exactly as expected. Bitter, angry, "Who the hell do you think you are" by everyone that appears to not be the guy that needs the machine, but wants it.

Sorry if you are angry, and offended, it was not my intention. My real intention was to ask when will the "chicken littles" stop saying the sky is falling, purely based on the fact that they are not really dependent on new hardware. But hey, keep slinging insults... I got very thick skin, I can take it.

----------

And yet here you are, commenting on others' comments.

Sure, if you want to call it that. I comment because I am not getting real answers. Thanks for yours. Stating you are in the market, but feel that another 6 month wait is too much, and you are moving to windows seems like the solution for you. The difference is, you did not start a thread, with a threatening letter to Tim, or an ultimatum, or any other BS. You said, I can't wait any longer, so I am making the switch. Simple and to the point. Enjoy Windows.

I don't think anyone anywhere has claimed that their work "requires" new hardware. But I think you're misguided to think that current hardware wouldn't make a dramatic difference in one's workflow. I was rendering out photo realistic imagery and animations with Maya on my G5 tower 5 years ago, but I wouldn't dare do the same today when I can cut my render times drastically.

While Apple has remained dormant in the workstation department, others have moved on. Simply put, there are better options out there now that will allow me to get my work done faster and more efficiently. I have been in the market for a new workstation for quite some time and was eager to see what Apple would offer. But it's no longer in my best interest to wait another year so I'm heading back to Windows.

I can understand that Render times may get lower, but the difference in speeds and render times don't seem that significant. My point is that right at the moment, we are not going to truly benefit too much from faster machines. What they can put out there won't break speed barriers, or reinvent the workstation (at least from the technology we are aware of). So the immediate question is, why is it such a huge deal?

 

[vastoholic]

I do not consider myself a true pro at this point, as I am not making a living with my machine. I do however work in Cinema 4D, FCSX and Logic on a daily basis, perfecting and honing my craft. Sorry, I should have mentioned we have a $60K studio as a hobby. My bad. Someday, I will be considered a true Pro. I bought a 2008 Mac Pro, because my iMac was incapable of handling my documentary project in FCSX, and I NEEDED more power. My pro fit the bill under the cost of a new iMac, even including the 30" cinema display.

The funniest part about this whole thing, is the responses are exactly as expected. Bitter, angry, "Who the hell do you think you are" by everyone that appears to not be the guy that needs the machine, but wants it.

Sorry if you are angry, and offended, it was not my intention. My real intention was to ask when will the "chicken littles" stop saying the sky is falling, purely based on the fact that they are not really dependent on new hardware. But hey, keep slinging insults... I got very thick skin, I can take it.

In that case, my apologies. You made it sound like you had no need whatsoever for a mac pro but still bought one. I will admit the idea of a mac pro intrigues me, but I will never buy one until I actually need one for work and will make money back from it. That's too big of a purchase for a hobby machine to me.

Derpage said it better than I was trying to:

I'll break it down as far as I see it. When a shop quotes a job, the give a time estimate. This time estimate makes or breaks a lot of deals, especially in advertising. So a bunch of dudes with Mac Pros have to give longer estimate because all those tiny improvements add up when you are talking about revisions and final renders..etc etc. So yes, they can still do the jobs, but now their are other machines running linux and windows that can do them faster and this loses contracts. If they want to keep up, they need to switch out their entire shop. This is a pain in the butt. This doesn't effect people too much on newer machines, but if you were way behind and were waiting for this non-revision, you have every right to be pissed.

 

[kaputsport]

In that case, my apologies. You made it sound like you had no need whatsoever for a mac pro but still bought one. I will admit the idea of a mac pro intrigues me, but I will never buy one until I actually need one for work and will make money back from it. That's too big of a purchase for a hobby machine to me.

Derpage said it better than I was trying to:

No harm, no foul. I think everyone here is jumping the gun a little here. My intention was not to ignite a fire. I was seriously asking the question. My problem is am a sarcastic person, and tend to go on a bit. Sure, I could use a machine like this, but I really don't need one more powerful than the current offerings... Hell, mine is 4 years old, and is not even maxed out.

His comment was the best so far. No attempts at internet supremacy, no insults, just information. I am not trying to be insulting, but when you are looking for information on things like video cards, SSDs and other upgrade parts and have to wade through 4 million threads of complaining, it gets annoying. I used to come in here and read threads just to learn what was possible, and what to expect when I finally got my machine. Now, I can't even do that. Worse off, it's quicker to search google than in here. I may still get the info from here, but I'll let google peel through the layers of BS.

 

[vastoholic]

I am not trying to be insulting, but when you are looking for information on things like video cards, SSDs and other upgrade parts and have to wade through 4 million threads of complaining, it gets annoying. I used to come in here and read threads just to learn what was possible, and what to expect when I finally got my machine. Now, I can't even do that. Worse off, it's quicker to search google than in here. I may still get the info from here, but I'll let google peel through the layers of BS.

word up
I know what you mean by that. I browse these forums frequently to see how others are using them and how to possibly get by with a cheaper older machine with upgraded parts, and yes, it's a nightmare with 10 new threads a day about apple not updating the mac pro. Hell, by the time I might actually need one (probably at least 2-3 years from now), I'll probably still by a 2010 model.

 

[theSeb]

I can understand that Render times may get lower, but the difference in speeds and render times don't seem that significant. My point is that right at the moment, we are not going to truly benefit too much from faster machines. What they can put out there won't break speed barriers, or reinvent the workstation (at least from the technology we are aware of). So the immediate question is, why is it such a huge deal?

The differences between Westmere and Sandy Bridge Xeon seem quite significant to me. Also bear in mind that the X5680 3.33 is faster than what is in the "2012" Mac Pro, which has the X5675 3.06 GHz CPUs. These benchmarks show a significant improvement. The 2687 is not a cheap CPU, but neither was the X5680 when it came out. Intel RRP shows that the 2687 is $200 more.

So, back to the point, what is the huge deal? The huge deal is that Apple is trying to sell 2010 (or early 2011 for the 3.06 X5675) CPUs in a workstation for the same prices that its competitors are selling workstations with 2012 CPUs and throwing in a 3 year old graphics card. They are also trying to sell me a computer with SATA II and USB 2, when their Minis, MBPs and iMacs have Thunderbolt and SATA III. Sure, I can add something like a Caldigit USB 3 card and I can add in an Areca RAID card for SAS, but why should I have to spend even more money to try and get this computer to similar specifications that its competitors are offering?

Surely you must agree that the situation is not on. I don't understand how people can defend this. I like my Apple products and I like the operating system, but don't think that means I cannot criticise them. I am not blind.

 

[kaputsport]

The differences between Westmere and Sandy Bridge Xeon seem quite significant to me. Also bear in mind that the X5680 3.33 is faster than what is in the "2012" Mac Pro, which has the X5675 3.06 GHz CPUs. These benchmarks show a significant improvement. The 2687 is not a cheap CPU, but neither was the X5680 when it came out. Intel RRP shows that the 2687 is $200 more.

So, back to the point, what is the huge deal? The huge deal is that Apple is trying to sell 2010 (or early 2011 for the 3.06 X5675) CPUs in a workstation for the same prices that its competitors are selling workstations with 2012 CPUs and throwing in a 3 year old graphics card. They are also trying to sell me a computer with SATA II and USB 2, when their Minis, MBPs and iMacs have Thunderbolt and SATA III. Sure, I can add something like a Caldigit USB 3 card and I can add in an Areca RAID card for SAS, but why should I have to spend even more money to try and get this computer to similar specifications that its competitors are offering?

Surely you must agree that the situation is not on. I don't understand how people can defend this. I like my Apple products and I like the operating system, but don't think that means I cannot criticise them. I am not blind.

Fair enough, however... There is one simple way to fix this...

Don't buy it! It is easy. Don't get a new one right now. Wait for them to update it, as they have said they will in 2013. I understood the rumors before WWDC, and I got the "WTF?" moments on monday, but it has come and gone, and now we have a true time frame. From what I read in a few other threads, it looks as if we are waiting for the E5 successor and on board TB integration through intel to be able to release new hardware.

I think looking forward for a real new Mac Pro is far better, even if you have to wait for the hardware to catch up to your dreams.

I do however agree that the Mac Pro now is tired and needs a refresh. For that matter, the prices should drop. Now should be the age of $1500 Mac Pros, considering they are using older tech and can't match other companies benchmarks. I say blow them out, and get more market share before the big push. Then again, if you snag a few new adopters, we will hear the crying about pricing after the new ones come out. You can't please everyone all the time.

 

[theSeb]

Fair enough, however... There is one simple way to fix this...

Don't buy it! It is easy. Don't get a new one right now. Wait for them to update it, as they have said they will in 2013.

That's exactly what I am doing.

I understood the rumors before WWDC, and I got the "WTF?" moments on monday, but it has come and gone, and now we have a true time frame. From what I read in a few other threads, it looks as if we are waiting for the E5 successor and on board TB integration through intel to be able to release new hardware.

I think looking forward for a real new Mac Pro is far better, even if you have to wait for the hardware to catch up to your dreams.

I do however agree that the Mac Pro now is tired and needs a refresh. For that matter, the prices should drop. Now should be the age of $1500 Mac Pros, considering they are using older tech and can't match other companies benchmarks. I say blow them out, and get more market share before the big push. Then again, if you snag a few new adopters, we will hear the crying about pricing after the new ones come out. You can't please everyone all the time.

It's been like a soap opera around these parts for the last couple of days with twists and counter-twists and some guy coming back that was meant to have been dead as a new actor.

 

[handsome pete]

Sure, if you want to call it that. I comment because I am not getting real answers. Thanks for yours. Stating you are in the market, but feel that another 6 month wait is too much, and you are moving to windows seems like the solution for you. The difference is, you did not start a thread, with a threatening letter to Tim, or an ultimatum, or any other BS. You said, I can't wait any longer, so I am making the switch. Simple and to the point. Enjoy Windows.

A 6 month wait is assuming the new Mac Pro is released January 1st. I feel comfortable thinking that won't be the case.

And I agree that some of the outrage expressed in these threads is laughable, but it just seems counterproductive to voice complaints about the complaints. I choose to just ignore it for the most part.

 

[wallysb01]

From what I read in a few other threads, it looks as if we are waiting for the E5 successor and on board TB integration through intel to be able to release new hardware.

That is probably what we are waiting for, but that wasn't a real requirement for a new Mac Pro. I wonder if SB-E5s were actually read when intel first planned (or even close) if Apple would have then made a more traditional Mac Pro update. Now, it may seem as though the time has passed

I think looking forward for a real new Mac Pro is far better, even if you have to wait for the hardware to catch up to your dreams.

I'm not worried about my "dreams". I'm worried about how fast I can get work done. Yes, I could by (or really my boss could buy) a HP or Dell, but then we'd have some issues with software, and that all that, which is really less than ideal.

I do however agree that the Mac Pro now is tired and needs a refresh. For that matter, the prices should drop. Now should be the age of $1500 Mac Pros, considering they are using older tech and can't match other companies benchmarks. I say blow them out, and get more market share before the big push. Then again, if you snag a few new adopters, we will hear the crying about pricing after the new ones come out. You can't please everyone all the time.

Its nice that Apple did drop the prices some on the current "new" version, but in reality, they should have dropped them much more. Another reason many people are somewhat POed.

 

[Jst0rm]

I do not consider myself a true pro at this point, as I am not making a living with my machine.

So then you have no understanding of what a true pros needs are.


You know what I need? A computer system that does what I need it to do when I need it to do it.

I want to have access to massive amounts of things available instantly. Because time = $ I spend a lot on ergonomics. Having a fast computer so you dont have to juggle different things to get something done means you get to have a weekend to yourself or take on even more work to make even more money.

 

[kaputsport]

So then you have no understanding of what a true pros needs are.


You know what I need? A computer system that does what I need it to do when I need it to do it.

I want to have access to massive amounts of things available instantly. Because time = $ I spend a lot on ergonomics. Having a fast computer so you dont have to juggle different things to get something done means you get to have a weekend to yourself or take on even more work to make even more money.

Technically, you are right, however I have a little more of an understanding than a person who just wants the latest, fastest thing.

If you read my posts above, you would see I am frequently working within Logic, FCSX and Cinema 4D. I work in conjunction with my video studio and our $60K recording studio. Has any of my work earned any money? Sure, but it was money for the project, not for my person. Simple fact is that I have an immediate understanding of what a person who uses the machine for work, needs. I get that a pro has a right to complain a little, but a Pro is not going to run in here shouting and making threads about contacting the CEO of Apple. He may still write the letter, but he will send it off himself, and not look for a collection of people on the net to agree with him. That time is spent working.

That is my point.

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You cared enogh to write a novel about it.

To be fair, had I posted in every thread, I would have had to write the same thing twice as much.

 

[Jst0rm]

Technically, you are right,

Your god damn right I am.

 

[Wild-Bill]

My 2 cents (before someone comes along and locks this thread )

1. The amount of bitching was/is warranted
2. Because of said bitching not just here, but all over the web (inc. Facebook page!) :

• a). Apple was compelled to remove the "New" sticker from the Mac Pro on their site
• b). MacRumors changed their "Buy" recommendation to DONT BUY
• c). Tim Cook responded to an email from the Facebook page creator saying that a new one was coming out in 2013 (contrary to his new double-secret secrecy stance)

And

• e). Apple PR publically acknowledged the 2013 timeframe for a revamped Mac Pro

Quite honestly, if all the (warranted) bitching didn't happen, we'd know NOTHING at this time, and Apple wouldn't realize just how important this machine is to thousands of people (over 18,000 last count on FB).

 

[H. Flower]

OP admits to not being a pro (hopes to be one someday), but lectures, ridicules and patronizes pros.

 

[Garamond]

my frustration (and i'm sure there are others) is the timing. I bought the 1,1 in 2007, and guess what? a major update less than a year later. So in 2010, when i was getting ready to update, i did a little reading, and guess what? There was this great processor called Sandy Bridge right around the corner.
Fast forward to 2012, and the Sandy Bridge is readily available - Apple pulls the Chewbacca Defense on us... IT MAKES NO SENSE!!

Apple needs to be more clear so that small business owners who are invested in the Apple ecosystem (and need powerful, reliable machines) can get the best bang for their buck. Yes, we spend extra for image - it does not mean efficiency goes out the door

That'd be 2,1 in 2007.

Besides, if you need a new computer - why on earth are you waiting for the next one? There will 'always' be a next one. Whining about a delayed next one just doesn't make sense.

 

[ArcaneDevice]

For all the long winded ranting in this thread it's amazing how the point is missed so completely.

OP says his current four-year old Mac is powerful enough. Would he buy that same unit now knowing that it uses out of date hardware? That it will not be able to take advantage of future peripherals, hardware and accessories that use USB 3, PCI 3, Thunderbolt, SATA 3 ...

You buy a Mac Pro with intention of keeping it around for a long time. It's an investment, it's not a phone. You don't just throw it out when the next version comes out in a year. Especially in business. Corporations don't just throw money at your department every year for new hardware. You have to buy when you have authorization.

So in my case I have to buy this unit now, knowing full well it is out of date already.

 

[macuser453787]

Each of us, the computer users, has the right to express his/her view on the Apple products and Apple's behavior in updating its products.

Agreed, and see below.

My real intention was to ask when will the "chicken littles" stop saying the sky is falling, purely based on the fact that they are not really dependent on new hardware.

There has been quite a lot of complaining about it. Most definitely.

So the immediate question is, why is it such a huge deal?

Continued from above, I think some of this (not necessarily all of this) is simply because as Apple customers and Mac users, we have a stake in it, whether for professional use or otherwise. Consider: whether for pro use or not, we are Apple customers and some people just want the latest and greatest (whether a marginal or significant performance increase is realized or not) - nothing wrong with that in and of itself. IMO there doesn't have to be a qualifier of pro or non-pro. I think what matters is that as Apple customers we spend money on their computers.

Now, does that mean that complaining helps anything? Not at all. I understand it, though as you stated in so many words (I think it was you), taking the time to do that can take away time better spent being productive and getting stuff done.

Don't get a new one right now. Wait for them to update it, as they have said they will in 2013.

Patience is a good thing.

I think looking forward for a real new Mac Pro is far better, even if you have to wait for the hardware

I definitely look forward to it! It'll be awesome to see what they do.

I do however agree that the Mac Pro now is tired and needs a refresh. For that matter, the prices should drop. Now should be the age of $1500 Mac Pros, considering they are using older tech and can't match other companies benchmarks.

That would be wonderful if they dropped prices significantly.

 

[deconstruct60]

You buy a Mac Pro with intention of keeping it around for a long time. It's an investment, it's not a phone. You don't just throw it out when the next version comes out in a year. Especially in business. Corporations don't just throw money at your department every year for new hardware. You have to buy when you have authorization.

But Corporations don't mark/tag capital equipment as investments. They are not. You don't depreciate and "write down" over time investments. Investments go up, no down in price. At least good ones don't. So it is not an investment. It is a cost that should assisted with making money back to pay for the cost over some extended period of time.

If these current Mac Pros are faster than what you have now then they are a rational buy. If the cost of migrating to Windows + new hardware on that side is less money then that is a rational candidate also.

 

[d-m-a-x]

That'd be 2,1 in 2007.

Besides, if you need a new computer - why on earth are you waiting for the next one? There will 'always' be a next one. Whining about a delayed next one just doesn't make sense.

Let me clear it up.

The 2,1 was announced right after i bought the 1,1. I am trying to avoid that happening again.

I want to but a product that will not be outdated 3 months after i buy it.

Need better communication from apple, instead of being in the dark.

This is not whining, it's called running a business

 

[pprior]

Let me clear it up.

The 2,1 was announced right after i bought the 1,1. I am trying to avoid that happening again.

I want to but a product that will not be outdated 3 months after i buy it.

Need better communication from apple, instead of being in the dark.

This is not whining, it's called running a business

Sorry, apple doesn't do communication. Remember when they just up and killed the xserve - think if you were a corporate customer with xserves deployed.

I'm not so pissed about communication (though I do appreciate and agree with your point and think it's a big part of lack of penetration into corporate IT), I'm pissed that the performance divide between workstations in the PC world and the MAC world has grown to an immense degree. It was one thing when people would complain about a premium price, but paying a premium price for outdated hardware is just a game changer.

In photography RAW file sizes are growing rapidly, video and audio editing is getting more intensive, but Apple sits still. The world is moving forward without them.

 

[balamw]

MOD NOTE: Far too much name-calling going on in this thread. Putting an end to it.

B