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darkmatter343

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 18, 2017
344
232
Toronto, Canada
Like the title says, when do you figure Apple is going to change the 13" Pro over to 16GB as standard? I would have though this recent 2018 upgrade would have made the move, and kept the nTB at 8GB, especially now that the 15" can be upgraded to 32GB. I realize this might kill profits since the 13" using DDR3 is limited to 16GB and so Apple can't monetize on the upgrade from 8 to 16, but for the TB which sells at 2399 (Cnd $) it really should have 16gb by now. Thoughts?
 

RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
The days of needing more and more RAM are over and for nearly everyone 8GB is all that is needed. Remember that SSD and the wider system architecture speeds have increased massively so the days of a sickening page-out-pause are also gone.

Those that need 16GB know exactly why their specific usage case requires it so the option makes sense, same goes for the vanishingly small % that need 32GB+. You could almost argue the case as to why there isn't an 8GB option on the 15" as it would hardly constrain it.

We have all got too used to the idea that we need bigger numbers every year when true performance is a balance of capabilities that work together.
 

darkmatter343

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 18, 2017
344
232
Toronto, Canada
At 2399+taxes it should really have 16gb as standard, not a $240 upgrade. But maybe that'll be in the next 2019 update if they move it to DDR4 with a 32GB option.
 

Painter2002

macrumors 65816
May 9, 2017
1,197
943
Austin, TX
At 2399+taxes it should really have 16gb as standard, not a $240 upgrade. But maybe that'll be in the next 2019 update if they move it to DDR4 with a 32GB option.
Actually, if you look around at other manufacturers, 8GB RAM is still pretty much the standard starting point for RAM on "Pro" laptops, with the option to upgrade.

There are a lot of things that Apple could and arguably should upgrade at the price points the MacBook Pro lineups sell at, but I don't think you will see 16GB RAM become standard until 2020 or later. If you look back at Apple's history, they dragged their feet on the shift from 4GB to 8GB on the last gen as it was.

As @maflynn said, if you need it, go ahead and upgrade it.
 
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jerryk

macrumors 604
Nov 3, 2011
7,418
4,207
SF Bay Area
I doubt they will for while. That would just increase the price of a lower priced product. Would you buy a TB model if the base price were $200 more? It is not like Apple is going to eat the cost.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,717
for nearly everyone 8GB is all that is needed.
Tell that to everyone who's ordering 32GB of ram. I'm not disagreeing with you, but people just using Chrome and facebook are ordering 15" MBPs with 32GB because they need that much ram.

My old 2015 iMac with 8GB is going strong and I have no memory issues what's so ever.
 
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deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,260
6,412
US
Tell that to everyone who's ordering 32GB of ram. I'm not disagreeing with you, but people just using Chrome and facebook are ordering 15" MBPs with 32GB because they mistakenly think they need that much ram.

Fixed that for you. :cool:

My old 2015 iMac with 8GB is going strong and I have no memory issues what's so ever.
Same with my 2015 RMB12 with 8GB RAM. And same for most of the general buying public. Yes, there are plenty of people who do truly need 16GB, and some who do truly need 32GB. Apple's going to be laughing all the way to the bank selling 32GB RAM systems to people who barely need 1/4 of the capacity, and then used system buyers will gleefully be buying up-spec systems in two or three years for a fraction of the original cost.
[doublepost=1534188107][/doublepost]
I realize this might kill profits since the 13" using DDR3 is limited to 16GB and so Apple can't monetize on the upgrade from 8 to 16, but for the TB which sells at 2399 (Cnd $) it really should have 16gb by now. Thoughts?

You answered your own question.

Why would Apple give away something they're able to make a bunch of money on as an upgrade?

They will switch if/when they decide doing so enhances profits and/or aligns with market positioning.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,822
1,116
apple basically knows that everybody wants to upgrade to 16GB of Ram and will pay the piper for it. When more people pay for the 32GB upgrade than the 16GB, than apple migh tmake 16GB standard.
 

RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
Tell that to everyone who's ordering 32GB of ram.

I think I would shy away from that battle as there are just too many ways to separate fools from their money. I take discussions that compare 13" vs 15" more seriously as there is a genuine and meaningful choice. With MBP configurations these days the adage that 'if you have to ask then you don't need it' holds true for 95% of users. The other 5% know exactly why they need to bump particular specifications and options. Regrettably far too many copy the specialists and over-inflated their requirements. Anyone who mentions 'future proofing' needs to be educated; anyone who suggests it to someone else needs shooting.

If anyone is genuinely listening to my MBP advice:

- Get the screen size you need as you will be looking at it and carrying it
- Get the lowest CPU option from the highest CPU generation available
- Stick with integrated graphics if you can or get the lowest GPU
- Get the lowest RAM option
- Think of the smallest SSD size you could cope with and then at least double it - the only area where spending a bit more makes sense

But I suspect I am shouting into the breeze or having a 'Cnut The Great' moment vs the tide. I'd argue that a decision on MBP colour is probably more important than its CPU clock, RAM and graphics for 95% of users.

Oh and I am one of the 95%!
 
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StellarVixen

macrumors 68040
Mar 1, 2018
3,208
5,714
Somewhere between 0 and 1
The days of needing more and more RAM are over and for nearly everyone 8GB is all that is needed. Remember that SSD and the wider system architecture speeds have increased massively so the days of a sickening page-out-pause are also gone.

Those that need 16GB know exactly why their specific usage case requires it so the option makes sense, same goes for the vanishingly small % that need 32GB+. You could almost argue the case as to why there isn't an 8GB option on the 15" as it would hardly constrain it.

We have all got too used to the idea that we need bigger numbers every year when true performance is a balance of capabilities that work together.

Run at least two VMs, and then come and tell me that 8Gb is enough.
 

RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
Why would I do that? Those of us that do such things would know it and order more RAM. As I said, those people would know why their specific usage case requires it.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,260
6,412
US
The other 5% know exactly why they need to bump particular specifications and options.

Run at least two VMs, and then come and tell me that 8Gb is enough.

See above. Someone savvy enough to be running multiple concurrent virtual machines ought to know exactly why they need to bump the RAM specification.

It's the "I use several safari tabs, listen to music, and edit my fantasy football roster in Numbers, do I need to future-proof with a 32GB RAM upgrade?" folks @RobbieTT is talking about.
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,822
1,116
Put another way. Apple is business to extract money from your wallet. Let's say 50% of everybody who purchase a macbook pro upgrades to 16GB. Will that same % upgrade to 32GB if they made 16GB standard at a lower price point?
 

raab

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2010
271
450
If you use Chrome then definitely the more ram the better, or if you use Virtual Box, or other VM solution to spin up VM's etc

I'm contracting at an organisation that provided me with a laptop that only has 4GB ram, soon as I get beyond 3 or more tabs open they start being "closed" to conserve memory.

So when I click on a tab the page has to refresh which is annoying.
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
Run at least two VMs, and then come and tell me that 8Gb is enough.

If you need to run VM's <at all> then you aren't in the "nearly everyone" group who can manage perfectly well with 8GB. Those who do run VM's are normally perfectly capable of assessing how many they need concurrently and speccing their machine accordingly. Making EVERY buyer carry that cost for the relative few who need it is just silly.
 
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Pangalactic

macrumors 6502a
Nov 28, 2016
512
1,443
Like the title says, when do you figure Apple is going to change the 13" Pro over to 16GB as standard? I would have though this recent 2018 upgrade would have made the move, and kept the nTB at 8GB, especially now that the 15" can be upgraded to 32GB. I realize this might kill profits since the 13" using DDR3 is limited to 16GB and so Apple can't monetize on the upgrade from 8 to 16, but for the TB which sells at 2399 (Cnd $) it really should have 16gb by now. Thoughts?

I don't think it's coming in the foreseeable future, ESPECIALLY with Apple.
 

Dovahkiing

macrumors 6502
Nov 1, 2013
483
473
So, here's an anecdote from someone who just 'downgraded' from a BTO 15" i9, 16GB, 1Tb machine to the stock top-tier 2018 13" model...

I made the switch after careful reflection on my actual use and determined that I didn't need dedicated GPU, extra cores, or more than 512 GB of disk space - so why pay for it? Like I suspect many others may be guilty of, I determined that I had initially fallen victim to Apples upgrade structure. I had ended up purchasing more computer than I needed because:

- "Oh, well it's only a bit more to upgrade the RAM"
- "Oh, well I should upgrade the disk too - can't change that stuff later!"
- "Well, geez at this point it makes more sense to just get the 15""
- "i9, hell yes!"

So, I take it back, but the one thing I had trouble getting over was the fact that if you want 16Gb in a 13" machine it has to be BTO - and you have to wait (at least currently). But, because I'm impatient and because Apple is so forgiving about exchanges within 14 days, I decided to go for the stock top-tier 13". If 8Gb is not enough - I can always bring it back in another 14 days and swap towards one with 16Gb, right?

Well, one week in and I am not expecting to exchange this one. I've spent a lot of time with Activity Monitor testing every extreme scenario I can think off. Honestly stuff that is pretty far beyond how I typically use a computer - a handful of apps all running at the same time - Mail, Safari (4-5 tabs), Photoshop, PixInsight, Python, Excel - and I'm still not getting into the red in Activity Monitor.

So - a bit long winded, but I am firmly in that camp that, at least for average to moderate users, 8Gb is plenty.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
15,823
34,925
Never - Especially since there's upgrade revenue just sitting on the table for Apple there.

This is what Apple is now.
 

Hater

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2017
898
884
Edinburgh, Scotland
I just hate that I can't get the good specs in a 13" without the TouchBar. My laptop spends 95% of its time docked to my desk, and 5% in the field, why would I pay for a TouchBar or a bigger screen i'll never use?
 
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ascender

macrumors 603
Dec 8, 2005
5,006
2,891
A lot of people don't need that 16GB of RAM given how fast and efficient the Apple hardware (SSDs in particular) and software combination is these days. The SSDs in the new MBP are really fast, so most people just won't notice when the machine has to page out to it.
 
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