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Where do you set the behavior for lid closing on a Powerbook?

I'm not sure if I should even throw this out there... because using it just might fry some folks laptops, but those of you who want options, here's your options.

Thread talking about this same issue:
http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10385&laptop+sleep+screen

Program to 'solve' this 'problem':
http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/12211


Let it be said that I agree with everyone that there is a reason Apple's laptops go to sleep when you close them. So be careful.

Rock on,
Josh
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Dude, there is no reason to be throwing along insults. It's common knowledge the danger of moving your computer when your HD is trying to access information. The spindle is in danger of hitting the platter, which is only a matter of a hair length from it, and one scratch could be fatal to it. I know that Windows has the feature, it's not like I haven't used Windows for years, but just because Windows has it doesn't mean that it's safe for you to do.
Click to expand...

Let's take a look at that last statement of yours, and turn it around:

Just beacause Apple doesn't have it, it doesn't mean that it's dangerous for you to do... :)

If you take a look at whitepapers on newer 2.5'' HDDs, you'll see that there's a operational G rating on them. That rates how much the drives will take under operational condition, and by the numbers, you could do quite a bit of jumping and walking without the HDD even giving a hickup. (Just look at the iPod...)

I think the real reason is thermal issues. The closed compartment you create between the screen and the keyboard will gather hot air, not giving the machine the appropriate cooling.

-KJ
 
I realize newer hard drives had more tolerance, but he seemed to have no idea that there is a reason why by general rule you don't want to jolt your HD around if you can help it. It isn't because "Apple says so" like was claimed, it is a fact of design. If you want to play catch with your $2000 laptop, then by all means, do so, but there is a point where even fail safe measures won't protect the disk from physical contact. And yes, the main reason I stick by is the heat reason. PowerBooks expel a good degree of their heat through their keyboards, and when you have the lid closed, you restrict that source of airflow.
 
Not to sound patronising or anything here, but please read what I told you to do. The "The HDD may break" argument is outdated! Taken from http://www.hgst.com/hdd/travel/tr7k60.htm:

An operational shock rating of up to 200Gs at (2ms)
Click to expand...

200G is like dropping the disk from a ten story building. And that I'll agree is risky.

Now that's the numbers for the drive I've got in my IBM ThinkPad. The drives in newer PowerBooks can sustain an additional 50G(!).

So let's just say that the only reason for not moving a PB in operational mode with lid closed is heat dissipation?

-KJ
 
Re: Now we know why the keyboards are now made of aluminum

Originally posted by silver6x
Now we know why the keyboards are now made of aluminum
Click to expand...

They're not. The keyboards are aluminum coloured plastc.
 
From Seagate's tech bulletins concerned the durability of their mobile laptop drives:

"...their notebook computer 300,000 times throughout the life of the system,the higher specification is important because the head unloadsonto the ramp during idle modes.The increased shock tolerance provided by ramp load is also crucial.An 800-G nonoperatingshock is equivalent to dropping a typical notebook computer approximately 18 inches flat onto a concrete surface. Operating shock also increases by employing ramp load.Because the heads can unload onto the ramp even when the drive is still operating (standby mode),the possibility of head slap due to operating shock is reduced.Moreover,the actuator arm of a notebook drive is much shorter,which enables the operating shock of the notebook drive to be maximized.Because form-factor allows the actuator arm to be shorter,it is stiffer and more stable.The added stability,combined with the smaller form-factor of the discs,contributes to the drive’s operating shock tolerance.Momentus is able to easily withstand 225 Gs of operating shock, which is crucial to building rugged and reliable notebook computers.A 225-G operating shock is equivalent to dropping a typical notebook computer approximately three inches flat onto a concrete surface while it is running."

How is that comparable to dropping it 10 stories? Also, this is with the HD *not* accessing data. If it is actually writing to disk, it is significantly more vulnerable.
 
Originally posted by joshuajestelle
Let it be said that I agree with everyone that there is a reason Apple's laptops go to sleep when you close them. So be careful.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. PBs defininitely run hot (which is why a G5 PB may be longer away than we'd rather)

These two quotes from my PB's user manual in the chapter "Care, Use and Safety Information"

Warning... Never place anything over the keyboard before closing the display. This can cause your computer to cycle on and off which may create excessive heat...
Click to expand...

Keep the PowerBook's internal display open at a 90-degree or greater angle when your PowerBook is attached to an external display and running in dual display or video mirroring mode. This allows for proper air circulation over the keyboard and assists with heat dissipation.
Click to expand...

Both these examples indicate that PBs run hot and that they should not be operated closed (or nearly closed) with the screen on.

Therefore, I'm sure it would jeopardize your warranty if you found a software way around "sleep when lid closed". (The hardware one would absolutely screw the warranty!)

But I definitely support your reasons for wanting it - plenty of times i've wanted to close the lid and leave something running (eg so kids wouldn't touch) such as Repair Permissions, or on the rare occasion I come across a large download.

As far as moving them whilst the HDD is running.... well.. there's some truth in it but HDDs have been more and more robust since the advent of laptops. As an oldie from the days when you actually had to park your HDD before shutting down, I still am reluctant to move a running laptop - but i do do it more and more, especially with my PB - eg taking a laptop for a walk to test wireless connectivity; moving between desks, sitting up in bed with it

Laptops by their very nature suffer a lot of movement while operating (eg resting on laps; on planes in turbulence)- yet it's been years since i've encountered damage to a HDD incurred by movement.

hope this helps
 
The seagate numbers are calculated with the disk in the laptop. The added mass from the laptop seriously adds to the forces working on the drive, and my "ten story example" was kinda exaggerated. (Have to admit that. ;) )

I won't start quarreling about G powers and how high you can drop it or stuff like that.

My point was: The drive will tolerate you moving your laptop about even if the drive reads or writes. If you decide to treat it like it would, that is your decision. At least you'll be 110% sure you don't break it. :)

-KJ
 
That logic seems to be flawed since obviously the laptop will have the HD in it. Besides, the force exerted equivalent to a 3 inch drop is about the same as one well placed jolt. The examples given about closing the lid when a large download is in process (which means the HD will be doing quite a bit of accessing) means that the owner intends on it to be in use. According to Hitachi's website, shock protection drops to about 20% just by being in operational state, which is again lower when it is actually writing to disk. Carrying it around, and a few bumps won't cause any problems for sure, but someone accidentally elbowing you just right, accidentally dropping it, or something along those lines can put it at serious risk for potential damage.
 
And it boils down to this:

You will choose to sleep your laptop when moving it, I won't. I even use it when on the move. In cars, trains, on boats and in planes. That's my choice, and based on my previous eight years as a laptop user, I expect that I'll do OK.

-KJ
 
They don't call em laptops for nothin!

Another thing io - if you do circumvent the "sleep when closed", based on what i quoted earlier, it would be a good practice to turn the brightness down til the screen is off. this would help reduce the heat from the screen a little.
 
Originally posted by jevel
200G is like dropping the disk from a ten story building. And that I'll agree is risky.
Click to expand...

in the spirit of nitpicking... if you drop something from a building and let it fall, you get precisely 1 G. does not matter how high you drop it from.

yes, if you drop it from a ten story building, the force of impact will physically destroy the laptop - but HD acceleration tolerance won't come into play.
 
Re: Re: Now we know why the keyboards are now made of aluminum

Originally posted by legion
They're not. The keyboards are aluminum coloured plastc.
Click to expand...

oh my bad... i don't have a powerbook, but from this thread i was under the impression that it had an aluminum keyboard. checked around again and of course, you're right. ;)
 
I am glad, aluminum keys would mean I'd get zapped everytime I went to type something. Ever since visiting my parent's house in Iowa and being in a heated house, I've found out all the negatives to central heat, such as static buildup when you go to touch metal...such as aluminum cases...
 
Originally posted by jxyama
in the spirit of nitpicking... if you drop something from a building and let it fall, you get precisely 1 G. does not matter how high you drop it fr......
Click to expand...

Sorry I have to nitpick too, please check your facts when nitpicking... when the laptop impacts the ground the energy of that impact would be calculated using:

First calculate the speed at which the drive is falling then


(speed change)²
Deceleration = ---------------------------
(30)(Deceleration distance)



if you don't belive me goto: http://www.vcu.edu/cppweb/tstc/kinetic.html
 
As others have pointed out probably the main reason sleep is your only option when closing the lid is for cooling purposes (Apple prefers passive to active cooling when possible). You can get away w/closing the lid on PC laptops because they are generally bigger and rely more on active cooling (the fans). So a forced sleep upon closing is the trade off for having a smaller, quieter laptop.


Lethal
 
Man this thread is filled with no-it-all attitudes. I haven't heard such moronic statements in ages. PowerBook G5 is a blatant mac apologist. Yikes, can you believe he said "Having my PowerBook stay on when I close my lid would be a bug instead of a feature." Well maybe you didn't know but Apple doesn't agree with you. "Lid-Closed Operation" was billed as a feature when Jaguar was released (although a control panel for it was suspiciously absent) and once again billed as a feature for the new G4 iBooks and Aluminum PowerBooks. There are plenty of times when this can be helpful like the starbucks example above.

Ok, please excuse my tone - I know we're all just trying to help here - but when someone asks for help don't just tell him "to just get used to it because that's the Apple way" (even if it's a former PC user). That's not only unhelpful but it's also misinformation.
 
I am not an Apple apologist by saying that lid closed operation is not supposed to be done with your PowerBook. If you were to read your PowerBook's user manual, it says in clear language *not* to close your lid, but to keep it open a bit to allow for cooling. Before attacking people, you need to take a breath and calm down and get your facts straight as well.
 
Originally posted by sford
Sorry I have to nitpick too, please check your facts when nitpicking... when the laptop impacts the ground the energy of that impact would be calculated using:

First calculate the speed at which the drive is falling then


(speed change)²
Deceleration = ---------------------------
(30)(Deceleration distance)



if you don't belive me goto: http://www.vcu.edu/cppweb/tstc/kinetic.html
Click to expand...

well, i believe you. :D

i guess i read his statement a little differently. i assumed that what he meant was the acceleration due to dropping from a building. not upon impacting the ground.

if it's the case of the former, it's always 1G. if it's the case of the latter, it's a lot of deceleration, though i don't feel like calculating to see if it's 200 G or not. (we would need to know how quickly it stops...)

anyway, you are right, i read his statement incorrectly. so apologies. i thought the way i did because if you drop from such height, the physical destruction of drive materail would be the biggest concern. i was thinking it's more relevant to talk about ways to subject the HD to high G forces without physically destroying the drive itself. afterall, who cares if the spindle damaged the plate or not if the entire drive is in bits anyway?

AbeFroman: could you give us a link to apple's site where closed lid operation is listed as a feature of the OS? last i remember, it's a spec in the PB where it's acceptable to put the laptop to sleep by closing the lid, then waking it up from external keyboard/mouse. nothing about the OS...

i personally didn't say "no, it's not possible, it's apple's way so get used to it," i think. all i meant to say is that it's not possible. but how is that different from someone who responds: "well, it's a feature in windows, how stupid is it that you can't do the same thing in a Mac!"
 
Re: Why is it silly?

Originally posted by titaniumducky
Why is this "silly"? Why would you close the lid if you didn't want it to go to sleep?
Click to expand...

-titaniumducky

Well, clearly ewinemiller has a use for it and therefore the question is valid by default.

I can think of several reasons why I would want to close the lid but still use it:
-Under a monitor in a "Docked" configuration.
-File, Music, Print, or Webserver
-Render slave
-Disk burning server.

Strange how an innocuous question the thread started with got charged with such emotion.
 
I just added a voice of caution because I don't want anyone to damage their pricey PowerBook. I don't know how I'd react if I were to open the lid to a melted keyboard or something equally as nasty.
 
And yet another use for a closed, non-sleeping PowerBook:

Run the *$@%$!! 3 a.m. cron jobs without leaving your laptop open! :mad:

(that's aside of the uses I've personally wished for that others have already mentioned: server, and DVD player).
 
You could just open Terminal and type the cron commands in yourself, or if you are not comfortable with the CLI, download an app that will do it like Onyx or Cocktail. I believe that Cocktail even allows you to schedule what time you want it to run the cron scripts, in fact.
 
Back when I was using OS 9 on my Tibook 500 it crashed a couple of times when I closed the lid, causing it to stay on and not go to sleep. One time I put it in my bag and the other time it was sitting on my desk. Both times when I came back I actually burned my hand when I touched it. Felt like touching a hot pan. While I can see the advantages of having a computer not sleep when closing the lid, I think of it this way. Most other laptops are made of plastic. Powerbooks are made of metal. The G4 is notorious for putting out a lot of heat. I think it is far better to leave out the option of
"no sleep when closed" than risk ruining something inside the computer or worse, burning people. Maybe when they can get a cooler running powerbook out, apple will include the feature. Until then, if you want to get up at starbucks and leave the computer running, go buy a kensington laptop lock and lock it to the table. ;)
 
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