Where Has Gaming Gone?

[Washac]

Yup, where has gaming gone over the lat few years, this is what I see.

Over the past few years what I feel can be described as the old bedroom game programmers
but now called Indie gamers have risen up the game sellers ranks with more and more of their
offerings being snapped up by the game buying public now there are outlets for them to sell
their games.

I have no problems with this, in fact I prefer to support them rather than the big games companies who
just churn out the next button mashing episode of the same old game for bigger and bigger bucks.

The now described indie games are games, most are fun and most are very very very playable, and most do not cost an arm and a leg for 10hrs of button mashing through what I can only describe
as a short film with you the player making decisions.

 

[Pakaku]

Independent devs have more creative freedom since theyre not big companies trying to make enough money to pay their massive dev teams. They'll rely more on selling what was proven to be successful.

On the other hand, I see so many terrible indie games being made lately. Very few indie games go on to be as successful as games like Cavestory or Undertale.

I also see some big-name devs also still making games that arent uninspired interactive movies. So it goes both ways.

 

[Huntn]

I like the pre-release games offered on the cheap. You can be burned, but then you can find gems. Currently playing 3 pre-release games- ARK, Subnautica, and Armored Warfare. I believe two of those games are from independent developers.

 

[Washac]

I like the pre-release games offered on the cheap. You can be burned, but then you can find gems. Currently playing 3 pre-release games- ARK, Subnautica, and Armored Warfare. I believe two of those games are from independent developers.

I know what you are saying but what do you call cheap for pre release ?

 

[Huntn]

I know what you are saying but what do you call cheap for pre release ?

Subnautica on sale for $15. ARK was $20 something. Armored Warfare is free, but that is a pseudo-free business model. This as compared to $40-60 for many finished games.

 

[Washac]

Subnautica on sale for $15. ARK was $20 something. Armored Warfare is free, but that is a pseudo-free business model. This as compared to $40-60 for many finished games.

I would not entertain those prices for a pre release, half those prices and I may take a chance.

 

[Huntn]

I would not entertain those prices for a pre release, half those prices and I may take a chance.

You may have a misimpression about what a pre-release game consists of. ARK is fantastic as is, with new features being added.

 

[paolol61]

Still 15-20 $ is a lot for pre-release game, but the free ( pay to win ) are the worse.

 

[gkarris]

I really into getting download-only games (I'm a collector so really want physical copies).

I downloaded some great indie games as well as studio releases where making a physical copy is cost prohibitive.

Again, its more about the game and the developers/artists involved.

I just got a 3DS XL used (on sale at GS now for $99). People told me the 3D is garbage. But, a few games I have (been buying a few since GS or people throw away the case/paperwork and grab the chance to get one CIB) are beautiful in 3D (Rayman 3D is one - I kept shooing the flies away in front of the screen... ).

I did see that problem when buying/trying out the Amazon FireTV where the games are just awful "wanna make a few bucks" (I returned the FireTV as that was one of the many reasons not to keep it).

 

[Huntn]

Still 15-20 $ is a lot for pre-release game, but the free ( pay to win ) are the worse.

Would you include World of Tanks, Armored Warfare, and Guild Wars 2? If so I would disagree with you strenuously. For the first two games, buying a premium tank does not mean you win, far from it, if you don't know what you are doing. When I last played GW2 (beta) purchased items were vanity only. No game-play advantages could be purchased.

Update: Brainfart. GW2 is not free, but it's a MMO without a subscription...

 

[Dirtyharry50]

I couldn't speak about World of Tanks or Armored Warfare as I don't play those but I don't see how Guild Wars 2 even fits into the pre-release or pay to win discussion. You buy the game for whatever the full or sale price is and you're in like Flynn. It's a very polished, finished, high quality experience and worth the money they ask for it even at full price in my opinion.

Personally, I don't do pre-release, alpha, beta, etc. at all even for free with one exception and that is the new Unreal Tournament that is in development and truly is a free game. It isn't about the price there though as UT is to me just a game well worth spending some time with and they are developing for the Mac. If they weren't, I probably wouldn't bother. I'll reboot for certain single player games for the time being anyway but not for multiplayer ones with so many good ones to choose from as native Mac games.

As for free-to-play, pay-to-win, etc. I avoid those generally like the plague as well with rare exceptions for certain MMOs which I was playing before they went f2p. These include the Turbine games, DDO and LoTRO although it's been quite a while since i visited my toons there. I even bought some content there as they are one of the very few companies I have ever seen to do f2p in such a way that it is a good value overall and it isn't difficult to understand up front what it will cost to have the experience you want. For example, I could buy a level range of quest/story/dungeon content of say, 10 or so levels worth and then enjoy it with all my characters before buying another tier up and you own it permanently for all characters once you buy in. Likewise, I did spend a little for some extra character slots for existing characters I had when they went f2p to regain access to them and I bought some pack space inexpensively. After those outlays I am permanently good to go whenever i feel like visiting until I want the next tier up, etc. That way of doing things without milking you to death left and right was fine with me. Most other companies slice and dice the games so much that just trying to figure out what the real cost for the experience you want is going to be is needlessly confusing to the point I just walk away.

The other two I like are the EverQuest games for personal nostalgic reasons and because I am so invested in those games from many years/hours of play I don't really need to buy much of anything to log in and enjoy many hours of fun with my alts there. If I did want to play more seriously, I'd just sub for the real deal and skip the micro transactions altogether. It's too piecemeal and not worth it.

Beyond those established older games that went free to play I won't even consider new ones. As soon as I see a game is free to play its only value to me is as a demo to see it and decide if it would be good enough to subscribe to or not which is highly unlikely when if I am going to subscribe to anything it would be one of the aforementioned games or WoW around the time of an expansion release.

That's just my take on the whole pre-release and f2p/p2w issues. I just vote with my wallet there and play something else the majority of the time. When perusing Steam the moment i see early access, etc. I mark it "not interested" and move on. I don't care what it is or who is making it. When it's done maybe it will be of interest then but not before it's done and there is user feedback about the game's quality both in terms of gameplay and technical stability. I cannot believe people actually pay money, any money, for the privilege of testing unfinished software with no real guarantee it ever will be. I cannot get my head around why that is attractive to folks in a world with so many known quantities in terms of finished games that have been well received but that's just my view I guess.

As for indies, once in a while a real gem arises from all the crap such as UnderRail or Bastion or something like that but for every excellent indie game there are so many dozens of craptastic pixellated excuses for games by one hit wonders making these in their mom's basements or whatever that I don't even pay attention to the indie scene until some game generates enough buzz that even I become aware of it and check further into it. UnderRail was like this. I didn't even know it was in development before it's release. That's because I don't care about kick starters or anything else in development until it is done, etc. It saves me time. With such a vast array of quality titles to choose from I find it best to just let the cream rise to the top on its own and I find out about it then.

Steam is so overstuffed with junk that it isn't funny. One thing I will say for GOG is they are a lot more particular about what they'll put on their store which is nice and cuts down a lot on junk I don't want to ever see. Not that they don't sell games I don't care about or even at times games of questionable (to put it nicely) value but it is far, far less of an issue there. Sometimes to be honest Steam really irks me with the tons of crap they foist on customers. There is absolutely zero curation goes on there at all. I could make some stupid thing in RPG maker where you explore some pointless little world with nice music, call it a game and put it up on Steam. Maybe I'm the dummy for not doing that actually.

 

[Vashed]

I still describe indie games where no studio is backing it

 

[Huntn]

I couldn't speak about World of Tanks or Armored Warfare as I don't play those but I don't see how Guild Wars 2 even fits into the pre-release or pay to win discussion. You buy the game for whatever the full or sale price is and you're in like Flynn. It's a very polished, finished, high quality experience and worth the money they ask for it even at full price in my opinion.

Personally, I don't do pre-release, alpha, beta, etc. at all even for free with one exception and that is the new Unreal Tournament that is in development and truly is a free game. It isn't about the price there though as UT is to me just a game well worth spending some time with and they are developing for the Mac. If they weren't, I probably wouldn't bother. I'll reboot for certain single player games for the time being anyway but not for multiplayer ones with so many good ones to choose from as native Mac games.

As for free-to-play, pay-to-win, etc. I avoid those generally like the plague as well with rare exceptions for certain MMOs which I was playing before they went f2p. These include the Turbine games, DDO and LoTRO although it's been quite a while since i visited my toons there. I even bought some content there as they are one of the very few companies I have ever seen to do f2p in such a way that it is a good value overall and it isn't difficult to understand up front what it will cost to have the experience you want. For example, I could buy a level range of quest/story/dungeon content of say, 10 or so levels worth and then enjoy it with all my characters before buying another tier up and you own it permanently for all characters once you buy in. Likewise, I did spend a little for some extra character slots for existing characters I had when they went f2p to regain access to them and I bought some pack space inexpensively. After those outlays I am permanently good to go whenever i feel like visiting until I want the next tier up, etc. That way of doing things without milking you to death left and right was fine with me. Most other companies slice and dice the games so much that just trying to figure out what the real cost for the experience you want is going to be is needlessly confusing to the point I just walk away.

The other two I like are the EverQuest games for personal nostalgic reasons and because I am so invested in those games from many years/hours of play I don't really need to buy much of anything to log in and enjoy many hours of fun with my alts there. If I did want to play more seriously, I'd just sub for the real deal and skip the micro transactions altogether. It's too piecemeal and not worth it.

Beyond those established older games that went free to play I won't even consider new ones. As soon as I see a game is free to play its only value to me is as a demo to see it and decide if it would be good enough to subscribe to or not which is highly unlikely when if I am going to subscribe to anything it would be one of the aforementioned games or WoW around the time of an expansion release.

That's just my take on the whole pre-release and f2p/p2w issues. I just vote with my wallet there and play something else the majority of the time. When perusing Steam the moment i see early access, etc. I mark it "not interested" and move on. I don't care what it is or who is making it. When it's done maybe it will be of interest then but not before it's done and there is user feedback about the game's quality both in terms of gameplay and technical stability. I cannot believe people actually pay money, any money, for the privilege of testing unfinished software with no real guarantee it ever will be. I cannot get my head around why that is attractive to folks in a world with so many known quantities in terms of finished games that have been well received but that's just my view I guess.

As for indies, once in a while a real gem arises from all the crap such as UnderRail or Bastion or something like that but for every excellent indie game there are so many dozens of craptastic pixellated excuses for games by one hit wonders making these in their mom's basements or whatever that I don't even pay attention to the indie scene until some game generates enough buzz that even I become aware of it and check further into it. UnderRail was like this. I didn't even know it was in development before it's release. That's because I don't care about kick starters or anything else in development until it is done, etc. It saves me time. With such a vast array of quality titles to choose from I find it best to just let the cream rise to the top on its own and I find out about it then.

Steam is so overstuffed with junk that it isn't funny. One thing I will say for GOG is they are a lot more particular about what they'll put on their store which is nice and cuts down a lot on junk I don't want to ever see. Not that they don't sell games I don't care about or even at times games of questionable (to put it nicely) value but it is far, far less of an issue there. Sometimes to be honest Steam really irks me with the tons of crap they foist on customers. There is absolutely zero curation goes on there at all. I could make some stupid thing in RPG maker where you explore some pointless little world with nice music, call it a game and put it up on Steam. Maybe I'm the dummy for not doing that actually.

That was my mistake, GW2 is not free. It's a MMO without a subscription so brain farted on that one.

However both WoT and AW are free games, and although they are frequently described as "pay to win", that's a misnomer, from those who don't like the idea that you can buy a Tier 8 tank and play at that level without having payed your dues and worked your way up through the ranks.

Premium tanks in WoT while they may have some special features, they used to be slightly less capable than their earned equivalent. And to make up for this, sometimes they had preferential match making. But it seems like War Gaming has changed gears and new premium tanks are just as good as regular tanks, have lost their preferential status (as far as I know) and regardless, ultimately it takes skill to win in those tanks.

The bottom line, the main attraction of Premium Tanks in both WoT and AW is that they earn more credits and in-game currency, allowing you to advance up the tiers more quickly while not spending any real money, if you don't want to. And there is no paying to win if you can't differentiate between your elbow and other body parts. They also have subscriptions like most games that make subscriptions optional, which accelerate XP accrual.

Now if there is a game out there where you can purchase in-game items that gives you an advantage over other players who have not payed, then I would vigorously critique that concept as something to steer clear of.

For Steam, there is some crap. The way to deal with it is not to not take chances on pre-release, at least before you read about it- check player ratings (of the game) at Steam, watch how often updates come, watch You-Tube review videos. I can think of one game- Blockscape on Steam which looked very promising, but apparently by a small group, maybe even a single individual who put this up on Steam as prerelase, but then did not update it for a frick'n year. And at one point, it looked, like he had to start over with the game due to problems of an unsubscribed nature and remove features. My first clue was the overly negative reviews which made the decision to avoid this game easy. I kept an eye on it in wait and see mode, but have since moved on to better pickings.

Now if you compare this to the two games I seem to mention repeatedly (I'll resist), but then I'll add Space Engineers! These game have had a very robust update schedule, reviewers rave, outstanding You Tube reviews, a slam dunk. IMO, why wait?

 

[Dirtyharry50]

I'm always content to wait for something to be finished simply because I have a huge library of games to play already that are finished. So why pay for and play one that isn't done yet? I guess if someone has zero backlog, zero games they replay such as strategy with skirmish, online shooters, MMOs or anything really that is perpetually open for the business of killing or whatever, building cities and managing them in various games, taking over the world or trying to in something like Civ X, etc. then sure, I guess paying for and playing something before it is done beats having nothing to play. That assumes that nothing else that is done can compete in a given gamer's mind for their attention over this unfinished game in question.

That scenario to me in this digital age of Steam sales, GOG sales, Humble and other bundles, etc. where the typical gamer owns hundreds of games and often has played less than half of them would seem to be rather rare and yet people still will choose to buy even more games that include ones that are not even finished and deal with the issues that are going to be present in software that isn't done. Again, I just find that sort of decision making a little hard to understand.

I honestly believe a lot of innocent people are being fleeced and taken advantage of in the current environment of PC/Mac/Linux games retail with a whole lot of shovel ware, slick marketing, sliced up games delivered in parts costing one heck of a lot more money than the entire pie used to cost and even worst of all games that are not even finished and are not guaranteed to be finished to the customer's satisfaction being sold too. Now, if there was a policy that dictated a game must be completed on a particular announced schedule or refunds be made available and if customers also had the same refund window of time once the game was formally declared done, the same as a purchase of a new game on Steam offers, I might see things a little differently. Of course, in that scenario we'd get some real accountability and you'd see a lot of projects fail outright which would be fine because they would deserve exactly that and consumers would not get screwed over and over. Too bad there is approximately an ice cube's chance in hell of anything like that happening.

 

[Washac]

Since the days of the Spectrum computer unfinished and games that could not be completed have always been sold to games buyers. Difference is now is that the games buying public are told its not finished and still they queue up cash in hand to buy these unfinished games, and sliced up whole games known as DLC and in game purchases.

Games selling outlets knowingly shovel unfinished crap games at the public under the guise of Indie this and Indie that, kickstarter this and kickstarter that, green light this and green light that.

 

[xsdeus]

That was my mistake, GW2 is not free. It's a MMO without a subscription so brain farted on that one.

However both WoT and AW are free games, and although they are frequently described as "pay to win", that's a misnomer, from those who don't like the idea that you can buy a Tier 8 tank and play at that level without having payed your dues and worked your way up through the ranks.

Premium tanks in WoT while they may have some special features, they used to be slightly less capable than their earned equivalent. And to make up for this, sometimes they had preferential match making. But it seems like War Gaming has changed gears and new premium tanks are just as good as regular tanks, have lost their preferential status (as far as I know) and regardless, ultimately it takes skill to win in those tanks.

The bottom line, the main attraction of Premium Tanks in both WoT and AW is that they earn more credits and in-game currency, allowing you to advance up the tiers more quickly while not spending any real money, if you don't want to. And there is no paying to win if you can't differentiate between your elbow and other body parts. They also have subscriptions like most games that make subscriptions optional, which accelerate XP accrual.

Now if there is a game out there where you can purchase in-game items that gives you an advantage over other players who have not payed, then I would vigorously critique that concept as something to steer clear of.

For Steam, there is some crap. The way to deal with it is not to not take chances on pre-release, at least before you read about it- check player ratings (of the game) at Steam, watch how often updates come, watch You-Tube review videos. I can think of one game- Blockscape on Steam which looked very promising, but apparently by a small group, maybe even a single individual who put this up on Steam as prerelase, but then did not update it for a frick'n year. And at one point, it looked, like he had to start over with the game due to problems of an unsubscribed nature and remove features. My first clue was the overly negative reviews which made the decision to avoid this game easy. I kept an eye on it in wait and see mode, but have since moved on to better pickings.

Now if you compare this to the two games I seem to mention repeatedly (I'll resist), but then I'll add Space Engineers! These game have had a very robust update schedule, reviewers rave, outstanding You Tube reviews, a slam dunk. IMO, why wait?

Isn't Guild Wars 2 free now?

 

[Huntn]

Isn't Guild Wars 2 free now?

I don't know. My impression is no subscription, but don't you have to buy the game to play it, same with expansions?

 

[jerwin]

Space Engineers

Does space enginerrs still demand an extended keyboard?

 

[Huntn]

Does space enginerrs still demand an extended keyboard?

I'm not sure, but I played it on my MBP which does not have an extended keyboard. One thing that turned me off was when they added rounded pieces, which looked rounded up close, but from a distance look square. True, before that there were no rounded pieces and I was happy then. :-\

I was really dying to build a large ship, and built one about 4000' long, but ran into some problems with curves that eventually discouraged me. This much effort deserved a smooth curvy ship. For voxel games relying on blocks, the larger the build, ideally the less blocky it looks.

Completely beside the point, I did not think it would be flyable in game, but at one point I was fine with it being a static display. There are mods that add super engines and gyros, which might have made it flyable, but where would I go, what would I do? This is not a universe type of game.

My Unfinished Baby​

 

[jerwin]

I played it for a bit during the free demo weedend. Iirc, the page up/page down/insert/delete/home/end block was used for spinning components around before placement. In truth, I may have missed something.

 

[Huntn]

I played it for a bit during the free demo weedend. Iirc, the page up/page down/insert/delete/home/end block was used for spinning components around before placement. In truth, I may have missed something.

I believe those can be remapped.

 

[EdwardSmith36]

Hey there, where will we get pre-released games? can anybody share the link for the same. Needful reply will be appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Huntn]

Hey there, where will we get pre-released games? can anybody share the link for the same. Needful reply will be appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!

If I understand you correctly, look at Steam. (Just in case you are not familiar link included. There is an app you have to download). Many pre-release games there. Hopefully I'm not being to basic, but be sure you verify on a specific game page, that it's Mac compatible and meets your system requirements, if you are Mac only. For example: Space Engineers is pre-release, but Windows only. ARK:Survival Evolved is both Mac and PC.

 

[JoelTheSuperior]

I don't know. My impression is no subscription, but don't you have to buy the game to play it, same with expansions?

That was the case at release, but Guild Wars 2 is now free to play. The in-game store however is pretty much the same as it's always been - mostly just things that affect appearance or small conveniences.