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the8thark

macrumors 601
Original poster
Apr 18, 2011
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Rene Ritchie (like him or hate him) did a video on this subject.


What is your take on this? Do you even want a pro level desktop Mac? Do you think one is even coming?
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,140
9,830
Atlanta, GA
I know that plenty of people would like an M1-Pro Mini; more for the extra RAM than the faster processor. Apple already said that the MacPro is still coming.
 
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Apple Knowledge Navigator

macrumors 68040
Mar 28, 2010
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It'll no doubt be the higher-tier option for a future Mac mini, replacing the existing Intel mini.

This makes a lot of sense as the Pro chip is essentially the sweet spot of Apple Silicon. It's ideal for those who find the M1 CPU a little limiting but equally don't need almost double the GPU cores. I can think of so many people who need those additional RAM options and CPU power, but don't do video editing or anything along the lines of neural work.

Also, the Studio enclosure would be overkill for the Pro chip. As much as it would be nice to have the SD reader and extra ports, I think Apple will keep those as an incentive for the Studio.

I'm going to say pricing will in the following ballpark, assuming that the next gen mini stays at £699:

£1,100 for 8 / 14 cores, 512 / 16gb
£1,400 for 10/14 cores, 1TB / 16gb
 
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darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,140
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Atlanta, GA
It'll no doubt be the higher-tier option for a future Mac mini, replacing the existing Intel mini.

This makes a lot of sense as the Pro chip is essentially the sweet spot of Apple Silicon. It's ideal for those who find the M1 CPU a little limiting but equally don't need almost double the GPU cores. I can think of so many people who need those additional RAM options and CPU power, but don't do video editing or anything along the lines of neural work.

Also, the Studio enclosure would be overkill for the Pro chip. As much as it would be nice to have the SD reader and extra ports, I think Apple will keep those as an incentive for the Studio.

I'm going to say pricing will in the following ballpark, assuming that the next gen mini stays at £699:

£1,100 for 8 / 14 cores, 512 / 16gb
£1,400 for 10/14 cores, 1TB / 16gb
I think they're talking about an M1-Ultra Ultra Mac-Pro, not an M1-Pro Mac Mini.
 

mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,182
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I think they're talking about an M1-Ultra Ultra Mac-Pro, not an M1-Pro Mac Mini.
No the video is on about M1 Pro based desktops not a new Mac Pro.

Is a conspicuous missing product however I suspect is product positioning/pricing issue.

Take a base Mac Studio with Max CPU at 1999

Now take a base M1 mini at 699.

Upgrade ssd to 512 and Ram to 16 and get to 1099.

MBP base Pro 8/14 to Max 10/24 is 500 and 16 to 32Ram is 400.
Pro 10/16 to Max 10/24 and I would want the 10/16 Pro not the 8/14 is only 200 so not much saving there.

So would only have 200 to cover the M1 to M1 Pro 8/14 and a 10Gbe option is 100 or half of that and is an option on even the M1 mini.

So 1099 for an M1 mini with 16/512
Say 100 for M1 to M1 Pro 8/14 is a guess but won’t be free from Apple.
From MBP then 8/14 to 10/14 is 200
And 10/14 to 10/16 is 100

So now at 1499 for M1 Pro 10/16 with 16 ram and 512ssd.

Optional 16 - 32 memory is 400 from MBP so now at 1899.
Optional 10Gbe option is 100 so 1999 or the same price as a base studio but with a Pro 10/16 soc rather then Max 10/24.

Simply pricing wise then a mini upgraded doesn’t fit as why would you buy the Pro when can get a Studio with better Soc for same price.

Mini pricing and upgrades prices need to lower to create a space price structure for a Pro SoC mini. (Please don’t suggest that raise the studio price to create the gap)

I understand that some people won’t want the 32gb mem or 10Gbe however would be options and would not make sense pricing structure wise.

And yes I have ordered a base Max Studio rather then wait to see if a Pro Mini launches as the difference in price going to be negligible unless big drop in price on mini and upgrades and with current economy I do not see big price drops from Apple being forthcoming.
 
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Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,308
2,933
Stargate Command
Loaded Mac mini(Theoretical) Mac miniBase Mac Studio
SoCM1M1 ProM1 Max
CPU8-core (4P/4E)8-core (6P/2E)10-core (8P/2E)
GPU8-core14-core24-core
SDRAM16GB LPDDR4X16GB LPDDR532GB LPDDR5
UMA68GB/s200GB/s400GB/s
SSD2TB512GB512GB
Ethernet10GbGigabit10Gb
Cost$1799$1099$1999

There is definitely a space in the Apple headless desktop market for a Mn Pro-powered Mac mini...!
 

mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,182
911
Loaded Mac mini(Theoretical) Mac miniBase Mac Studio
SoCM1M1 ProM1 Max
CPU8-core (4P/4E)8-core (6P/2E)10-core (8P/2E)
GPU8-core14-core24-core
SDRAM16GB LPDDR4X16GB LPDDR532GB LPDDR5
UMA68GB/s200GB/s400GB/s
SSD2TB512GB512GB
Ethernet10GbGigabit10Gb
Cost$1799$1099$1999

There is definitely a space in the Apple headless desktop market for a Mn Pro-powered Mac mini...!

Your theoretical mini with M1 Pro 8/14 and 16/512 is the same price as an actual M1 8/8 SOC with 16/512. So would have Apple giving the M1 Pro 8/14 for free in your theoretical Mini compared to actual Mini.

To get from an M1 Pro 8/14 16/512 to 10/16 and 32Gb/512 then looking at 700 and already shown how 1099 is an M1 not an M1 Pro 8/14.
10Gbe option is a further 100.

With upgrade pricing from MBP then once add options for higher Pro and RAM then you get the same price as the Studio.

Not saying there isn’t a market but the pricing that Apple put in for the mini and the studio makes it difficult for Apple to put one out there, as with the top end options of 10/16 Pro and 32/512 then already at Studio pricing and can imagine the forums if try selling a Pro based machine for same price as studio, or if sell for less then the uproar (as if not already enough complaints) about upgrade pricing on MBP and Studio compared to upgrade on mini.

The Pro SoC and RAM in the MBP would be the same as in the Mini and being a SoC would be identical so would have to charge less for the same product in the Mini compared to MBP to keep he price once upgraded below the Studio.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,854
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Seattle
I think the naming of an M1 Pro in a desktop Mac and an M1 in a desktop Mac Pro will cause confusion.. lol
There is unlikely to be an M1 in a Mac Pro. There may be an M1 Ultra in a Mac Pro, that is different. There could be an M1 Pro in a Mac Studio or a Mac Mini. It’s not so confusing as long as you use the proper names of the products and chips. It gets messy if you use shorthand names, though.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,854
6,797
Seattle
Loaded Mac mini(Theoretical) Mac miniBase Mac Studio
SoCM1M1 ProM1 Max
CPU8-core (4P/4E)8-core (6P/2E)10-core (8P/2E)
GPU8-core14-core24-core
SDRAM16GB LPDDR4X16GB LPDDR532GB LPDDR5
UMA68GB/s200GB/s400GB/s
SSD2TB512GB512GB
Ethernet10GbGigabit10Gb
Cost$1799$1099$1999

There is definitely a space in the Apple headless desktop market for a Mn Pro-powered Mac mini...!
Where did you come up with $1099 for the M1 Pro Mac Mini? That is the price of the current M1 Mac Mini with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD.

If you configured the Intel Mac Mini with the fastest process and 16/512GB you get $1499. That is a more reasonable price for an M1 Pro Mac Mini.
 
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Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,308
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Stargate Command
Where did you come up with $1099 for the M1 Pro Mac Mini? That is the price of the current M1 Mac Mini with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD.

If you configured the Intel Mac Mini with the fastest process and 16/512GB you get $1499. That is a more reasonable price for an M1 Pro Mac Mini.

Price of base 2018 Intel Mac mini, which a M1 Pro Mac mini would replace; keep in mind my pricing is for a double-binned M1 Pro SoC, not the full die variant...

Could the M1 Pro SoC support all the ports in a Mac Studio, or would that be another reason the M1 Pro would go in a Mac mini chassis to fill the product gap in the headless desktop market...?
 

mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,182
911
Price of base 2018 Intel Mac mini, which a M1 Pro Mac mini would replace; keep in mind my pricing is for a double-binned M1 Pro SoC, not the full die variant...

Could the M1 Pro SoC support all the ports in a Mac Studio, or would that be another reason the M1 Pro would go in a Mac mini chassis to fill the product gap in the headless desktop market...?

The problem with your price is that the M1 8/8 fitted with 16/512 is ALREADY at 1099. So you would be having Apple provide the M1 Pro 8/14 at the same price as the M1 8/8 which is the only way with current model pricing that could get your price.

The entry Intel model left at 1099 is only 8Gb RAM with 200 for the 16GB RAM upgrade so 1299.

So if we take that as the M1 Pro 8/14 price which would be a 200 upgrade over the M1 8/8

So now take the Pro 10/14 option = 1499
Take the 10/16 = 1599
take the 32Gb Memory = 1999

So taking that price then a Pro Mini upgraded with 10/16 and 32Gb RAM is the same price as the Studio which also has the 10Gbe as well as a Max 10/24.

This is why I said marketing/pricing issue why not offered and to squeeze an M1 Pro into the lineup with options then the base 8/8 machine has to come down in price and upgrades be cheaper. With the upgrades in a mini being the same parts as in MBP as the SoC etc would be the same then the price Apple charge will be the same as charge for on the MBP they also would have to come down in price to squeeze the M1 Pro based mini into the lineup without hitting the price of the studio.
After all how would Apple get away with charging different on the MBP and Mini for the exact same parts.

I was looking for a Pro 10/16 32/512 mini however with the Studio price and working out pricing then really not worth it and have a base studio Max 10/24 with 32/512 on order.

Maybe with the M2 gen then Apple can get the pricing down on the SoC and create a space as an M1 Pro with upgrades gets to the Studio price already.

I am not saying that not a technical gap in the range or that people wouldn’t be interested in 16gb Pro machines simply that if putting the Pro SoC and its options in then get to the Studio price so why would anyone buy upgraded Pro desktops.
 
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MrGunny94

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2016
1,132
660
Malaga, Spain
It's a good question, I also wanted an M1 Pro but decided to give my Air away and buy the Macbook Pro 14" with the full M1 Pro die.. I usually use my 14" 90% of the time docked because i'm always remote, only when I'm on the go do I disconect it (like 2 times a week)
 

thenewperson

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
961
871
Loaded Mac mini(Theoretical) Mac miniBase Mac Studio
SoCM1M1 ProM1 Max
CPU8-core (4P/4E)8-core (6P/2E)10-core (8P/2E)
GPU8-core14-core24-core
SDRAM16GB LPDDR4X16GB LPDDR532GB LPDDR5
UMA68GB/s200GB/s400GB/s
SSD2TB512GB512GB
Ethernet10GbGigabit10Gb
Cost$1799$1099$1999

There is definitely a space in the Apple headless desktop market for a Mn Pro-powered Mac mini...!
That base M1 Pro Mac mini will probably be at least 1299. Remember that the current 1099 mini has an 8/512 config, which no M1 Pro supports, so at least add the standard 200 RAM upgrade charge to the price.

I think $1299 (or at worst 1499) is a good starting price prediction for this mini.
 
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playtech1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2014
679
859
It feels like an M1 Pro Mac Mini would make sense, but if M2 is just around the corner I doubt there would be enough of a performance gap to justify an M2 and M1 Pro Mini in the range.

I can however see both M1 and M2 Minis being sold.
 

spiderman0616

Suspended
Aug 1, 2010
5,670
7,494
It feels like an M1 Pro Mac Mini would make sense, but if M2 is just around the corner I doubt there would be enough of a performance gap to justify an M2 and M1 Pro Mini in the range.

I can however see both M1 and M2 Minis being sold.
I think labeling the models M1, M2, M3 etc. will make a lot of sense to buyers. "Core i7" means nothing to my mom, but if you tell her "The M1 is slower than the M2", that would make total sense to her. "It's just one higher, isn't it?"
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,140
9,830
Atlanta, GA
Your theoretical mini with M1 Pro 8/14 and 16/512 is the same price as an actual M1 8/8 SOC with 16/512. So would have Apple giving the M1 Pro 8/14 for free in your theoretical Mini compared to actual Mini.
There is no M1 to M1-Pro upgrade which would tell us the cost so its mostly speculation; however, we can make some educated guesses based on MBP processor upgrades. I think its fair to say that upgrading from the M1 to the M1-Pro would cost between $150 and $200. Its unknown if Apple would offer different M1-Pros like they do in the MBPs or just offer the 10/16 M1-Pro like you find in the base 16".
 

Pugly

macrumors 6502
Jun 7, 2016
411
403
The MacBook Pro and Mac Studio the focus is on the M1 Max. But the M1 Pro is the sweet spot for performance... The Max is for graphics and RAM. I wonder if they could put it in the iMac too...for a $500 upgrade. The binned 14" one with 8 cores is a pretty gradual upgrade to the top of the line... drop that in for a little more performance.

It seems Apple wants a $2000 price floor for any performance beyond an M1 for now.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
5,854
6,797
Seattle
It feels like an M1 Pro Mac Mini would make sense, but if M2 is just around the corner I doubt there would be enough of a performance gap to justify an M2 and M1 Pro Mini in the range.

I can however see both M1 and M2 Minis being sold.
The M1 Pro would still be faster than an M2 in any tasks needing multiple cores. The M2 would be slightly faster in single-core performance. Think of the difference between the iPhone A14 (M1 core) and the A15 (likely M2 core). The performance can be measured but probably not really noticed by a user.
 
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