Which device is doing the upscaling

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by idntknw, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. idntknw macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    #1
    I just upgraded my whole home theater system.

    ATV4K
    Onkyo NR676
    Sony XBR930E

    Which device is upscaling the non 4K content?

    I'm using the Onkyo as the switch. ATV 4K HDMI to Onkyo then main out to the Sony.
     
  2. netnothing macrumors 68040

    netnothing

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Location:
    NH
    #2
    If you have the Apple TV set to any 4K mode, then it’s upscaling the signal and sending out a 4K signal to your AVR.
     
  3. idntknw thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 11, 2012
    #3
    Thanks. So does the AVR do any processing at all that would affect color, sharpness, etc?
     
  4. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    Feb 8, 2004
    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #4
    It's going to upscale video per whatever choices Apple has made for doing so. If you are chasing max quality (upscaling) and/or questioning what you are getting out of the :apple:TV, just do some simple testing like play something upscaled by :apple:TV vs. play the same something passed directly to the TV (which will use it's own upscaler). In your case, you can also make this a 3-way smackdown by leveraging the Onkyo upscaler too.

    How? Use a video app on the :apple:TV vs. the same video app in the TV itself.

    There should be at least fine differences in how each upscaler does it's job. Enough for you to really notice? Maybe or maybe not.
     
  5. westrock2000 macrumors 6502a

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    Oct 18, 2013
    #5
    Everything I see on the receiver uses the word “pass through” in regards to the HDMI, which indicates it’s not processing signal. if it’s upscaling they will usually advertise the chip doing it (like Faroudja).
     
  6. Blazer5913 macrumors 6502

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    Jan 20, 2004
    #6
    OP - would be very interested if you could do a test like this. I am in the market for a 75" TV and I've been looking into the 900E series. I know it has slightly less powerful Sony X-processor than the 930E, but the big push for many regarding these Sony TVs is their upscaling capability thanks to that Sony video processor - as opposed to some of the more budget brand TVs in the 75" range. Since the majority of the content that is out there still isn't 4k, this is extremely important to me. Also, I recently cut the cord (somewhat) and switched the PS Vue on my ATV, so again, upscaling through the ATV vs. the Sony TV would be a great comparison. Thanks! And if anybody else has any recommendations on this topic or has experience in it, please chime in!
     
  7. netnothing macrumors 68040

    netnothing

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    NH
    #7
    Just an FYI, look into the new 900F that is coming out soon. It's the 2018 model and it will get the X1 Extreme processor.
     
  8. Blazer5913 macrumors 6502

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    Jan 20, 2004
    #8
    Oh wow, will definitely look into that! I've had my eye on the 900E for the past year but then since I never pulled the trigger, was hoping some "new and upcoming" devices would come out in the general same price range but increase in specs (aka like everything else out in the tech world). Appreciate the heads up!
     
  9. netnothing macrumors 68040

    netnothing

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    NH
    #9
    No problem....although I'm sure it'll be more expensive than the 900E for a while. Here's a video with some comparisons:

    As for the upscaling....I think the ATV does a good job with it, although I haven't tested the difference with my 930E. Problem is if you force the ATV into 1080p mode, then you don't get any 4K. Wish someone would add resolution switching as well as I "think" the Sony upscaling would be a little better.
     
  10. Diemenz macrumors member

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    Sep 9, 2015
    #10
    I noticed the upscaler on the ATV4K is very decent and in "most" cases will beat a tv's upscaler. We have to remember that its being done on hardware and software and most tv's are not even in the same realm as the ATV4k when it comes to power so it comes down to software. iOS 11.3b1 the upscaler took a step back and it got better again in beta 2 so I can imagine it is something they are working on. My thoughts on the subject is that tvOS gets updates monthly which means considerable work goes into the upscaling software versus a tv which sees maybe 2-3 updates a year and most are due to issues not improvements.
     
  11. idntknw thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 11, 2012
    #11
    Thanks for the replies. So would the ATV4K cause any a/v sync issues? I'm randomly getting some and really can't narrow it down to any particular app. Netflix, Prime Video, Directv Now all have this issue. The Onkyo has a sync option which I've tried both on and off and doesn't seem to help. It also has a manual sync +/- but really can't to seem to get it just right. I've done all troubleshooting that I know of but nothing seems to help.

    Is there any one of the devices that would be the most probable to cause this?

    Edit: I hooked the ATV4K straight to the tv and there is still a slight delay so is it the ATV or the tv?
     
  12. Diemenz macrumors member

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    Sep 9, 2015
    #12
    My guess is the tv as I do not experience it. What tv and are you using and motion adjustment features in the tv like clear action or similar?
     
  13. idntknw thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 11, 2012
    #13
    Sony 930E. There are two settings, Motionflow and CineMotion that I turned off but unfortunately the issue is still there.
    I wish I had another tv to test it on to at least eliminate the tv.

    I am on the beta btw for the ATV not sure if that has anything to do with it.
     
  14. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 604

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    Location:
    Hobe Sound, FL (20 miles north of Palm Beach)
    #14
    Take the :apple:TV to a friends house, hook it up there, stream the same movies that seem to have the issues and see if it's happening there too. A simple test like that is going to pin it down to TV or :apple:TV. Of course, I'm assuming you've tried at least 1 different HDMI cable too, just to rule out a bad cable.

    Also, are you maybe using the ARC setup? As another test, break the ARC functions such that you are basically feeding the HDMI out of :apple:TV into the Receiver where it can direct the audio to the speakers and pass the video to the TV. Still see the issue?
     
  15. idntknw thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 11, 2012
    #15
    Good idea on taking it to a friends I'll try that tomorrow.

    I have tried two different cables and a different HDMI port but didn't seem to make any difference. I'm not using an ARC setup like you said audio direct and passing the video the tv.

    There are a couple of posts over at AVS Forums ATV section about the sync issue but no fixes yet.
     
  16. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #16
    Does anyone know of a good link to some testing that compares ATV vs Roku vs Amazon vs Nvidia Shield vs smart TV internal scalers?

    In the past, I found for 1080p, the very best scaler was found in my blu ray player (Oppo103). It beat all the add on devices listed above until the nvidia shield offering which was surprisingly good. The tv itself did a very good job but again, the blu ray player beat them all (and I would also be remiss if I didn't mention a couple of TiVo boxes).

    We can certainly provide our own experiences (as I have) but part of it can be considered subjective and a more standardized test would be a good place to start. I am not looking for a biased report but one that gives us all some data to work with.
     
  17. mellofello macrumors 65816

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    Feb 1, 2011
    #17
    I have a plethora of streaming devices plugged into my TV. ATV 4k, PS4 pro, Nvidia shield, and the smart cast built into my TV.

    I was actually pretty amazed at how much of a disparity there was between the PQ from each source. For instance I was watching a Vudu HDX movie on the built in smart cast app. The PQ was so bad even my GF complained, and she is far from picky.

    Watching the same movie (American made) on my shield netted some drastically different results. It looked absolutely crystal clear. As a test after I went back and watched a few minutes on the ATV and I think the shield wins as the best.

    I think the shield is also just a hair better in 4k Netflix. It of course wins in YouTube since Apple cannot do 4k.

    Wayyy way in the back is the PS4 pro which looks like fuzzy, soft garbage compared to either. Everything I watch on there looks like it was run through a Samsung beauty filter.
     
  18. Michelasso macrumors 6502

    Michelasso

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    Feb 20, 2012
    Location:
    Treviso, Italy
    #18
    I have a Sony XD80 (2016 EU model. Same identical SoC - CPU/GPU - of your XBR930E) and I get lip sync issues only with Amazon Prime Video. They are at about 40-50ms. Or at least only Amazon content I notice them. With Infuse, YouTube and Netflix (when I had the subscription) it seems fine (if there is anything it's only few ms). But I have read a couple of of posts in the Appleseed forum from people complaining about it in tvOS 11.3 beta 1.
     

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17 February 9, 2018