Which graphic card?

[Silly John Fatty]

BTW – is there a way to test the graphic card? An app maybe, a bit like the Apple Hardware Test.

I know it runs normally and all (although the fan doesn't seem to spin in a real circle, but perhaps it's just the sticker on top that is not perfectly placed, if you understand), but basically, I thought there might be issues I haven't discovered yet and that will only show up in months. So it's better to find out now than later, when it's too late. Now I can still tell the seller I've received the card and that there's a mistake. Just in case…

 

[h9826790]

Furmark is a good tool to test thermal stability. I usually run the 15min test few times with air conditioning off + all windows doors closed. I know someone run it overnight, but I personally think that's not necessary. 15min is long enough to let the temperature stabilise, which is the main purpose of this test.

On the other hand, I usually run Unigine Heaven 4.0 and Unigine Valley 1.0 to perform a visual check to make sure there is no glitch, freeze, crash on the screen.

The Unigine apps are design to benchmark the graphic card, but I found that's a good tool to test real world stability (Furmark can push your card to limit, but not necessary crash due to unstable GPU). You can run them few times for checking abnormal graphics. If the image is normal, I will run Furmark + Unigine Valley at the same time. The Unigine Valley performance of course will drop a lot, but if the card can still run normally, most likely the GPU will able to handle any hard working job of your Mac Pro.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Thanks, I ran Furmark for now, and I believe everything seems to work I may run the other two later, it would take some time to download first.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Hi again,

I installed a game (Driver: San Francisco) which I had on another Mac (27" iMac) too, in order to test the card again.

I noticed the card becomes very loud - is that normal? The game was set to maximum resolution and highest quality (just like on the iMac) but it's pretty intensive in the sense that the camera zooms out of the streets very often and you see the whole city from the top with all the cars moving.

On the Mac it never ran that loud. (on a HD 6790M 1 GB)
Also the frame rate isn't constant, I see some slight lag. Which is weird for a 3GB card.

The only times the iMac fans got loud was when playing online for hours.

 

[h9826790]

Yes, the native fan profile is quite loud, and your card can easily get another 25% performance with that cooling fan profile. That's why I modify the firmware to minimise the noise but get some extra performance at the same time.

However, I don't have this game. So, I can't tell if that's normal about unstable frame rate.

Under exactly the same condition (same CPU, same HDD, same temperature, etc), the 7950 should have much better performance than the 6970M.

I suspect that the game is not that GPU intensive but CPU intensive. And your iMac has a higher clock frequency CPU than your Mac Pro. That's why it makes the game runs better on your iMac.

 

[cebseb]

Yes, the native fan profile is quite loud, and your card can easily get another 25% performance with that cooling fan profile. That's why I modify the firmware to minimise the noise but get some extra performance at the same time.

However, I don't have this game. So, I can't tell if that's normal about unstable frame rate.

Under exactly the same condition (same CPU, same HDD, same temperature, etc), the 7950 should have much better performance than the 6970M.

I suspect that the game is not that GPU intensive but CPU intensive. And your iMac has a high clock frequency CPU than your Mac Pro. That's why it makes the game runs better on your iMac.

I switched from the 6970 to the 7950 and I can confirm that it is a much better performer with the added benefit of not being as power hungry (less heat being pumped out by my tower).

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Yes, the native fan profile is quite loud, and your card can easily get another 25% performance with that cooling fan profile. That's why I modify the firmware to minimise the noise but get some extra performance at the same time.

However, I don't have this game. So, I can't tell if that's normal about unstable frame rate.

Under exactly the same condition (same CPU, same HDD, same temperature, etc), the 7950 should have much better performance than the 6970M.

I suspect that the game is not that GPU intensive but CPU intensive. And your iMac has a higher clock frequency CPU than your Mac Pro. That's why it makes the game runs better on your iMac.

It didn't run better on the iMac but I'd say it runs the same. I didn't notice any difference (except the really really loud fan on the 7950!)
On both the iMac and the Mac Pro there was this occasional, very short frame drop from time to time. I suppose the game was just not properly ported to Mac.

And yes I'll look into your cooling profile Can it damage the card if it isn't cooled as much? Or why is it so loud when it is stock?

But first I'll upgrade to Mavericks. I'm doing the download overnight. But from what I read, all drivers for the 7950 were preinstalled on 10.8.3, which is what I have now. So I don't know if Mavericks will make any difference.

Also everyone interprets "loud" in a different way, but here it was really loud as in… scary loud! We will know more tomorrow when the upgrade is complete

 

[h9826790]

In my room, I can't hear the fan if that's below 27%. Once above that, I can hear it, and the fan noise change quite clearly for every 1% increment.

For the noise that you called it's scary loud, most likely it's just about 50% fan speed. If you boot your machine into Windows and use Afterburner to hard tune and monitor the fan speed, you will realise that the noisy fan is no where close to it's limit.

For the temperature issue. If you leave everything at stock but only reduce the fan speed (a lot), of course it may cause damage, but most likely thermal throttling will occur before any damage and you can never fully utilise the card. I personally don't recommend this kind of modification.

However, I decrease the voltage on my card, that greatly reduce the heat. Therefore, I can have a card with extra 6.25% performance (850MHz core), max at around the same temperature (75-80C), but the fan speed only max at around 31% (stock is about 50%).

With the stock fan profile, this GPU can easily run at 1050MHz (extra 31.25%), temperature max at around 85C with very noise fan at about 60% fan speed.

I suspect that this card is design for both Mac and PC (with decent over clock ability), but not carefully calibrated to match the Mac Pro's quiet fan characteristic . That's why it has a very aggressive fan profile to protect the GPU. However, for a Mac, this is just extra noise and almost no other advantage.

Anyway, Mavericks should give you better performance, but it may not help if the game is not properly ported to Mac.

I test my graphic card's game performance by running Tomb Raider. This game is very well ported to Mac, and it's very sensitive to the GPU performance. It's performance has direct relationship with my GPU's clock speed. You may try that with your 6970M and compare it to the 7950.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

In my room, I can't hear the fan if that's below 27%. Once above that, I can hear it, and the fan noise change quite clearly for every 1% increment.

For the noise that you called it's scary loud, most likely it's just about 50% fan speed. If you boot your machine into Windows and use Afterburner to hard tune and monitor the fan speed, you will realise that the noisy fan is no where close to it's limit.

For the temperature issue. If you leave everything at stock but only reduce the fan speed (a lot), of course it may cause damage, but most likely thermal throttling will occur before any damage and you can never fully utilise the card. I personally don't recommend this kind of modification.

However, I decrease the voltage on my card, that greatly reduce the heat. Therefore, I can have a card with extra 6.25% performance (850MHz core), max at around the same temperature (75-80C), but the fan speed only max at around 31% (stock is about 53%).

With the stock fan profile, this GPU can easily run at 1050MHz (extra 31.25%), temperature max at around 85C with very noise fan at about 60% fan speed.

I suspect that this card is design for both Mac and PC (with decent over clock ability), but not carefully calibrated to match the Mac Pro's quiet fan characteristic . That's why it has a very aggressive fan profile to protect the GPU. However, for a Mac, this is just extra noise and almost no other advantage.

Anyway, Mavericks should give you better performance, but it may not help if the game is not properly ported to Mac.

I test my graphic card's game performance by running Tomb Raider. This game is very well ported to Mac, and it's very sensitive to the GPU performance. It's performance has direct relationship with my GPU's clock speed. You may try that with your 6970M and compare it to the 7950.

I installed Mavericks (latest version) and I'd say that it runs about the same. No real difference. No difference in the game either. I don't think it's CPU what the game needs by the way, because it seems to be the GPU fan that goes really fast. I feel the air coming out of the PCIe bay at the back.

But perhaps it's also something else, because I have an error in the Apple Hardware test and need to send it back in a week or so. The seller told me I can continue to use it. Apparently one of the errors is a temperature sensor error for the memory. Yet the fan air comes out from the PCIe bay when the Mac is noisy… weird.

 

[h9826790]

Here are some screen captures to let you have a better understand about the fan noise.

The LHS fan profile is the profile that I am now using. As you can see, it's much lower than the native one (on the RHS) at temperature range 50-75C, but eventually will go back up if the temperature close to it's design limit.


The following screen capture shows how your card react under full load when using the stock setting. As you can see, It score about 73FPS in Furmark, temperature stabilise at around 78C with fan speed 49% (3065RPM), and this high RPM create lots of noise.


However, this card don't really need 1.094V for that speed. I can reduce the voltage to 0.975V, and increase the core speed to 850MHz. It can still run perfectly stable. And now, it can score 73FPS in Furmark but temperature stabilise at 76C with only 39% fan speed. This 2382RPM still create some noise, but it's much less than 3065RPM.


In fact, this test is intended to stress the card to it's max stabilised temperature. In real world, the card usually run few degrees cooler than Furmark test even under full load. And that will make a huge difference. The native setting will make your fan run at around 3000 RPM. However, the calibrated fan will only run at about 2000 RPM, which makes a huge difference regarding fan noise.

You may play around with your PICe fan to simulate the noise difference. You can easily use smcFanControl to set your PCIe fan to 2000RPM, with this fan speed, you can clearly hear the fan, but not very loud. If you set it to 3000 RPM, the fan will be much louder.

[Update 1: I further fine tune the card. Now it can score 95FPS under the same setting in Furmark. The temperature stable at around 88C (the max stable temperature for my card is 93C) with just 38% fan speed.

]

 

[h9826790]

Yet the fan air comes out from the PCIe bay when the Mac is noisy… weird.

The RAM temperature sensor error may increase some fan's speed, but should not be the PCIe fan. What I found is that the PCIe fan has some relationship with the PCIe electric current, but not the graphic card's temperature.

When your card under load, the increased power consumption will increase your PCIe fan speed straight away, even though the graphic card's temperature still low.

Anyway, when your card's temperature going up, it will increase it's own fan speed (but not necessary the PCIe fan speed). When the card's fan spinning fast, it draws air into the card, and exhausted at the back of your Mac Pro. From what you said, your card's cooling system is actually working as design. That's completely normal. However, it runs warmer than necessary (as what I said in the last post). Therefore, more air comes out from the back, and more noisy as well.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Thanks for taking the time to explain This is exactly what's happening, according to SMC fan control, the card is not hot at all (38-45°, sometimes 50° at most when playing the game) and yet the fans are loud. I will have to open the Mac to see if it's the PCIe fan or the fan of the card.

One weird thing I noticed was that when I set a higher RPM in SMC fan control, and then set it back, it stays locked at the higher RPM and doesn't go down anymore. That happened a few times, I'm not sure if it's a bug, but I'll try again later and report!

 

[h9826790]

One weird thing I noticed was that when I set a higher RPM in SMC fan control, and then set it back, it stays locked at the higher RPM and doesn't go down anymore. That happened a few times, I'm not sure if it's a bug, but I'll try again later and report!

The PCIe fan and power supply fan spin up fast, but spin down very slowly. It may take few minutes to spin down, that's completely normal.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Hello again

After upgrading to Mavericks I noticed one problem still persists: sometimes, but not really often, I get a flash of a grey/black screen on the display, just for a second or half a second. Is that normal? I should have the latest Drivers with the latest version of Mavericks.

It only happens occasionally, and like I said, the whole screen becomes gray with some black for half a second, the disappears again. Hmm…

 

[h9826790]

Not sure about this, I don't have this problem.

What monitor you are using now? How you connect it? Did you check if the cable loose?

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Same as you apparently, 27" Apple Cinema Display. It's connected via Mini DisplayPort (well and USB for the sound).

If the cable is loose? You mean badly connected to screen/Mac? I checked that and it's well connected. I think I've had this problem with both ports on the card, but to be sure I now put it on another port again.

I got the card for 200€. It still has warranty apparently (2 years I believe) but the seller still didn't send me the bill, which means I can't get the warranty. I'm wondering if that price is not very low for such a card, and that something might be wrong with it. So far, everything worked fine with it - no problems or whatsoever.