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I didn't have any ear protection, but fired anyway. My ears have been ringing for going on 4 days now.(

YIKES! Don't do that again :D

I realized that my AX was NOT connected with an optical cable like I thought it was. I just have screwed that up when I connected the new receiver. I got it all switched up and it does make a noticeable difference. I don't think that I will bother with a separate DAC. I am quite happy with the converted built into the receiver.

BTW, if you are looking for a new receiver, I think you will be hard pressed to find one with more features at a fair price than the Onkyo TX-SR608. It has 5 HDMI inputs and upconverts to 1080p from any other the composite or component source. The 100w per channel are clean and the on-screen display for setup is very nice. It does not have network capability, but I wasn't interested in that since I have been using Rogue Amoeba's Airfoil, but you can get that in other Onkyo models.

Highly recommended.
 
I think I will choose Apple Lossless, but with out a good earphone, evevrthing is worthless
 
So I finally completed ripping all of my CDs in ALAC. And wouldn't you know it, this past weekend I was out with my brother and father in law, and they wanted to fire my handgun. I didn't have any ear protection, but fired anyway. My ears have been ringing for going on 4 days now.

At this point I'm hoping my hearing recovers. Sucks that I have all these great lossless files now, and good equipment to listen with, but my ears are all fubar.
:eek::(

REST YOUR EARS! Don't go to ANY gigs, clubs, listen to loud music etc... over the next few weeks. You *should* be fine. I had to give my ears a few months rest last year (no clubs, no live music, no headphones, no loud music at home) as I was starting to build up a noticeable ring in my right ear. It's gone now...
 
I think I will choose Apple Lossless, but with out a good earphone, evevrthing is worthless
I'd welcome you over to my house to listen on my Sonus Faber Domus Grand Piano speakers - I'd place a monetary bet that you'd clearly hear the difference between lossy compressed files and my ALAC collection. :)


REST YOUR EARS! Don't go to ANY gigs, clubs, listen to loud music etc... over the next few weeks. You *should* be fine. I had to give my ears a few months rest last year (no clubs, no live music, no headphones, no loud music at home) as I was starting to build up a noticeable ring in my right ear. It's gone now...
That's precisely what I'm trying to do. This happened on Sunday of last week, now it's already Friday and still my ear is ringing. I'm scared I've permanently damaged my hearing, but I'm holding out hope that time will heal my ears and my hearing will return to normal.
 
As I mentioned, in professional/commercial music recording.

Uh, it doesn't matter what industry you're talking about. Lossless = Lossless. If the bitstream coming out of the lossless file is identical to the bitstream that went in, it will sound the same - full stop.

FLAC, ALC, and any other compressed lossless file is functionally identical to an AIFF/WAV that has been zipped; the compression is just built into the file format, rather than an after-the-fact action.

Now, if you're talking "FLAC/ALC at 44.1 KHz, 16-bit" vs. "AIFF/WAV at 192 KHz, 24-bit", then yeah - huge difference. In professional recording, you generally don't (at least, I certainly hope you don't,) record in "just" CD-quality. You could achieve the same effect by using FLAC/ALC at the same resolution and depth as your uncompressed captures, though.
 
I was just reading up on apple lossless vs AIFF a few days ago on one of these high end audio buff sites. What they said is very simple...

the musical quality of apple lossless = AIFF. There is no difference in audio quality.

This is simply not true, when you rip a CD in iTunes with the Apple Lossless encoder, you end up with a copy of the CD which sounds good, but has a considerably lower (variable) bitrate than the CD, which has a bitrate of 1411kbps. When you encode a CD using Apple Lossless in iTunes, it does not keep the original 1411 bitrate.
 
This is simply not true, when you rip a CD in iTunes with the Apple Lossless encoder, you end up with a copy of the CD which sounds g̶o̶o̶d̶ identical, but has a considerably lower (variable) bitrate than the CD, which has a bitrate of 1411kbps. When you encode a CD using Apple Lossless in iTunes, it does not keep the original 1411 bitrate.

Yeah, that's kind of the point of lossless data compression...
 
This is simply not true, when you rip a CD in iTunes with the Apple Lossless encoder, you end up with a copy of the CD which sounds good, but has a considerably lower (variable) bitrate than the CD, which has a bitrate of 1411kbps. When you encode a CD using Apple Lossless in iTunes, it does not keep the original 1411 bitrate.
The bitRate has been compressed, but there is no loss in sound quality. Basically apple lossless is like a zip compression, it uses an algorithm to shrink files down without losing any information. The bitrate is usually smaller because instead of a consistent bitrate it uses a variable bitrate so less file space is used for less complicated regions of the file unlike aiff that uses the same amount of space for all regions of the song.

Lossless files are not often used in recording, because of the significant amount of decoding and processing power needed to decompress it. Making it unusable for on the fly mixing. However, the files can be converted back to their original size and bitrate without any loss of quality.


Aiff and lossless not only sound identical they are identical waveforms.
 
Your simple answer is wrong.

The simple answer is "yes" as they are equally close to CD.

They are both very close, but AIFF is closer. Numbers don't lie. You won't be able to hear the difference, though, but that wasn't the question
 
They are both very close, but AIFF is closer. Numbers don't lie. You won't be able to hear the difference, though, but that wasn't the question

Nope! Lossless is lossless, regardless if it compressed or not. AIFF and ALAC (assuming same sample rate etc.) have identical sound quality.
 
They are both very close, but AIFF is closer. Numbers don't lie. You won't be able to hear the difference, though, but that wasn't the question

I asked the original question, so yes, that is the question.

Lossless is lossless. End of story.
 
They are both very close, but AIFF is closer. Numbers don't lie. You won't be able to hear the difference, though, but that wasn't the question
You are dead wrong. Why even reply if you have no idea what you're talking about. Read the rest of the thread to learn about aiff and lossless encoding.
 
Read the rest of the thread to learn about aiff and lossless encoding.

Or search the MacRumors forums for "lossless compression," and read some of the 500+ resulting hits. Or start with the Wikipedia article on "audio compression (data)."

Reduced bit rate does not necessarily entail loss of data. This is basic knowledge.

Cheers,

B.
 
If you are streaming to Airport Express, you might as well use Apple Lossless because iTunes converts to Apple Lossless on the fly when streaming to the AE regardless of the original format.
 
AIFF = no embedded tagging (if you move the file outside of the system you tagged it with, you don't get the tags anymore)

Apple Loseless can contain embedded tagging

In terms of quality, CD = AIFF = Apple Loseless

I've been ripping to AIFF (and bringing an external drive with me) since the beginning.
 
Hello !!

Very interesting thread, thank you to all of you, MacRumors and Internet where I have been finding valuable info for years and years... :)

I have just tested almost all the different format that the latest iTunes can offer, compared them with my supersonic pair of ears on my monitor speakers Yamaha HS50M and here is my conclusion, which is the same as you guys. cf screenshot attached. I begin in the music production and I need references cds (or files with at least the same quality) to compare my mix with them, I can't stand mp3 128kbps on my monitor speakers and I begin to be disappointed by mp3 320kpbs too (no problem on my iPhone headphones).

I starred the different format and compression, and you can see the size each file takes too.

Surprisingly the new :apple: HD-AAC sounds the worst :confused:, and it seems that iTunes plays the cd a little louder than any files in its library.

Cheers

EDIT: can't access the screenshot attached... add in text below. 20 is one star, etc...

20 Revolution 909 hdaac 80 Daft Punk AAC 44,100 kHz 80 kbit/s 3,2*Mo
40 Revolution 909 mp3 128 Daft Punk MPEG 44,100 kHz 128 kbit/s 5*Mo
40 Revolution 909 aac 128 Daft Punk AAC 44,100 kHz 128 kbit/s 5,1*Mo
60 Revolution 909 mp3 320 Daft Punk MPEG 44,100 kHz 320 kbit/s 12,5*Mo
80 Revolution 909 aac 320 Daft Punk AAC 44,100 kHz 320 kbit/s 12,7*Mo
100 Revolution 909 wav 44k16b Daft Punk WAV 44,100 kHz 1411 kbit/s 55*Mo
100 Revolution 909 apple ll Daft Punk Apple Lossless 44,100 kHz 883 kbit/s 34,5*Mo
100 Revolution 909 aiff auto Daft Punk AIFF 44,100 kHz 1411 kbit/s 55*Mo
100 Revolution 909 aiff 44k16b Daft Punk AIFF 44,100 kHz 1411 kbit/s 55*Mo
 

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If Audio Files were a Sleeping Bag

I know it could be a personal preference, but in theory which is closest?

Currently, I have ripped all my CDs and stream them wirelessly through the AX to my Onkyo TX-SR608 and Paradigm Titan speakers. I do listen to CDs, but most of the time it is streamed.

I have a rather large library that I originally ripped into MP3, but want to re-rip and get the best possible quality - and file size is not a concern for me. I can always buy more HDDs.

I have ripped into both for a test and they sound the same to me, but that is with my current equipment. I want to be able to insure the best I can that when I upgrade my stereo that I will not regret the format I chose and feel a need to re-rip everything again.

Just wanted to comment the original post. I have not read this entire thread...

Lossless Uncompressed: AIFF and WAV
Lossless Compressed: ALAC and FLAC
Lossy Compressed: AAC and mp3

Concider your audiofile to be a sleeping bag. Very nice one that will keep you warm at -40Celcius. Unpacked it's huge and difficult to transport. It takes up the entire backseat of a car, cause it's an AIFF-sleeping bag, but once installed you are guaranteed a very nice sleep.

But hey - it came with a tiny condom for transportation (The FLAC- Container), but will it fit? After massive work and some beating it will and the best part, it takes up no more space than a pair of shoes. Is it broken or damaged? Not at all, just let it breathe and it will give you the same sleep as before.

I stumbled over this cool looking leather condom instead of the original (The ALAC Container). That's fair, just dump your bag into your new container, still the same sleeping bag.

Now some people wish to travel light. This means cutting of layers and insulation from the sleeping bag, never to return. Sleeping in less than 15celcius is no longer an option, and if you want to go back, you have to buy a new one! It has become the mp3 sleeping bag. You go here once in a lifetime at most, and you regret this very much.

In other words you can take the lossless file and move it around as you see fit. But once it is lossy it's a done deal. HD will cost you nothing and ripping takes massive time. So get the memory you need and get it right right away!

Pros and Cons:
Lossless Uncompressed: Audio quality as your original CD, takes up huge space, saves the processor the compression work

Lossless Compressed: Audio as CD, takes limited space, pulls some processor capacity while packing unpacking the file

Lossy Compressed: Like listening to a waste basket. The dynamics of the file is gone forever, especially the low range. Higher sounds will get a clinic feel and for the ear it's tiresome over time. Compressor need to unpack, although very small files.

Now - don't ever take a lossy file and put it in a lossless container. That's like carrying the ****** tiny sleeping bag in a huge box. The good stuff is torn from the file, even if you name it AIFF or ALAC.

Summary:
1) Never buy your music in iTunes Store (AAC 256kbps) until Apple realize it is not up to them to dismantle what artists put together so nicely for all of us.
2) iTunes will transcode on the fly when syncing to portable devices (AAC 128 kbps). It's fair for earplugs in a city environment and it leaves room for a loot of music for that device. I would prefer AAC 256 but for now, not an option!!!
3) "I think my AIFF sounds better than my ALAC". Exactly, you think it does, but it doesn't!. The output while playing has identical profiles. These profiles are sampled and brought to you bu what ever equipment you have. Ditching your dock station or adding serious digital ti analog conversion will make a difference. Lossless to Lossless makes no difference.

Note: FLAC files may be ripped in various qualities. Live with it or find the CD and do it your self.

FYI: XLD is the best lossless lossless converter there is for MAC imo. This is how to bring your FLACs to iTunes.

HB
 
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