Which is the best keyboard?

[57004]

I still have my PowerBook G4 and think it's better whenever I use. If only the G4 was fast enough and if developers were still making more PowerPC apps then I could still use it as my main computer. I'm curious to know why Apple decided to go with chicklet keyboards. I don't hate them, but I've noticed that I can type faster on the G4. It's also a more comfortable keyboard in my opinion.

I think that was all about the unibody. If you have to have a big open area in a plate of metal, a whole bunch of small holes gives much more strength than one huge hole.

I know the whitebook got it first but I bet Apple was already thinking about the unibody construction at that stage. Chicklet keyboards came into fashion at that time (Sony started them as far as I remember). And Apple like to try things out before they go for something all the way.

I do believe the old curved keys were better in some ways, for one it's much easier to feel if you're not hitting the key dead on because the slant feels different. But the flat shape looks cooler and we are talking Apple here.

I have to say it took me some time to get used to them, I even bought a spare old-style 'crumbcatcher' Apple keyboard for my Mac Mini just before they were discontinued, just so I wouldn't have to move on to the chicklet ones when my keyboard would break. But by now I've come to hate the crumbcatchers, they type so heavily compared to my wired chicklet keyboard and the click is actually less defined. Oh, and it gets annoying that they double as a display case for assorted crumbs and dust But I'm talking desktop keyboards now, of course. Getting off-topic.

PS: If you really wanted to, you could probably make do with a last-gen non-unibody MBP which had the same keyboard and were reasonably fast compared to the old G4's. But it wouldn't be worth the tradeoff for me.

 

[nw9]

I think that was all about the unibody. If you have to have a big open area in a plate of metal, a whole bunch of small holes gives much more strength than one huge hole.

That does make sense, but I don't know if that was the main reason since my PowerBook Titanium G4 is pretty sturdy with that huge hole in the middle for the keyboard. You could be right though. Apple might have favored an even sturdier unibody with the grid lines between keys rather than having the giant hole for the old style keyboards.

My chicklet MBP does feel more sturdy and rigid compared to my G4, but I had no complaints about the built quality of my G4. I would rather have the G4 keyboard rather than a more solid feel to the MBP.

I do believe the old curved keys were better in some ways, for one it's much easier to feel if you're not hitting the key dead on because the slant feels different.

I agree about the curved keys. It's so much easier to know by feel if I've hit the keys dead on center. With chicklet keyboards I've noticed that hitting the keys dead center takes more skill. This is why I seem to type slower with chicklet keyboards because I have to slow down to make sure that I hit the keys correctly. I've gotten faster typing on chicklet keyboards, but I can't be half asleep and still type fast and accurately as I did on my G4 keyboard.

But the flat shape looks cooler and we are talking Apple here.

Sigh. You don't have to tell me. I've been using Apple products for a long time now. Their desire to prioritize form over function does get annoying at times.

I have to say it took me some time to get used to them, I even bought a spare old-style 'crumbcatcher' Apple keyboard for my Mac Mini just before they were discontinued, just so I wouldn't have to move on to the chicklet ones when my keyboard would break. But by now I've come to hate the crumbcatchers, they type so heavily compared to my wired chicklet keyboard and the click is actually less defined. Oh, and it gets annoying that they double as a display case for assorted crumbs and dust But I'm talking desktop keyboards now, of course. Getting off-topic.

PS: If you really wanted to, you could probably make do with a last-gen non-unibody MBP which had the same keyboard and were reasonably fast compared to the old G4's. But it wouldn't be worth the tradeoff for me.

I had to look up "crumb catcher" keyboards to know what you were talking about. I personally never liked the old desktop keyboards. The thinner laptop style keyboards were always my favorite types. IMO they are more comfortable and easier to type with. I even prefer the chicklet keyboards more than the "crumb catcher" desktop keyboards.

I've gotten used to the chicklet keyboard on my MBP so it would be a waste of money for me to get a MBP that was before the chicklet. My current MBP is starting to get slow so I don't want to go to an even slower processor just for the keyboard. What I wish is that Apple will still think about the experience we get from keyboards as they make newer laptops. Not all chicklet keyboards are made the same. Some are better than others even within Apple products it seems.

 

[duckrabbit]

I agree 100% with the OP. My old Blackbook had a far better keyboard than any of the more recent Apple laptops I've tried. I actually prefer chiclet keyboards provided they have enough travel. Going from the Blackbook to the rMBP, the keyboard was a pretty big disappointment IMO.

 

[57004]

That does make sense, but I don't know if that was the main reason since my PowerBook Titanium G4 is pretty sturdy with that huge hole in the middle for the keyboard. You could be right though. Apple might have favored an even sturdier unibody with the grid lines between keys rather than having the giant hole for the old style keyboards.

Titanium is a LOT stronger than Aluminium though. And that wasn't a unibody, there was a frame inside the laptop. In the unibody the housing itself is the frame.

My chicklet MBP does feel more sturdy and rigid compared to my G4, but I had no complaints about the built quality of my G4. I would rather have the G4 keyboard rather than a more solid feel to the MBP.

Yeah in some ways I also miss the old form factor. Not so much for the keyboard because I don't remember how much better it was, but for the edges. I think the sharp edges of the unibody are uncomfortable. I loved the round plastic edges on the old G4s (and first-model MBPs). They were even sharper on my white MacBook but at least I was able sand them down without ruining the material. No chance of that on the aluminium ones.

Sigh. You don't have to tell me. I've been using Apple products for a long time now. Their desire to prioritize form over function does get annoying at times.

Yes I agree. The sharp edges are one thing. Glossy screens are another (in my opinion but this is also a matter of taste), and the ever-decreasing gap between the keyboard and screen when closed, there's many reports of the edge between trackpad and keyboard scratching the screens on the 13" Air and 15" retina Pro. I would gladly have a laptop that's a few millimetre thicker if I didn't have to worry about putting pressure on the screen.

I also hope they will look at these things more. They make beautiful computers though, I give them that

 

[foodle]

Wow. Quite the pro-Mac response.

For me, the Thinkpad keyboards are far and away better than any other laptop keyboard. I've got a Thinkpad (running Linux) just for writing long documents because the keyboard is so good. Although, the Powerbook G4 keyboards were very good too. Love the one on my 12" Powerbook.

 

[Mojo1]

The kind of keyboards that appeal to your average computer user are very different from keyboards favored by serious touch-typists and hard-core gamers.

None of the keyboards listed in your poll fall into the latter category. I would rate your options as ranging between OK to poor; I don't see a single keyboard that I would judge to be "good." The same goes for Apple's desktop keyboards. Apple keyboards have trended downward in quality over the years; years ago they were actually fairly decent.

Like other Apple products such as the iMac and Thunderbolt display, form has trumped function when it comes to Apple keyboard designs. They are obviously not intended to be used for serious typing. They are ergonomic nightmares... but they sure are purty!

Here is an excellent website for people who are interested in getting the best keyboard for their style of typing. There is a lot of information and there are keyboard recommendations at the end of the article. You can spend a little or a lot but some really good keyboards can be had for $125 or less...

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide

 

[Digidesign]

Great thread, except Thinkpad (pre-island) and Thinkpad (current) should be on that list. Lenovo is too broad a range since they produce different types of keyboards.

My vote is for the Thinkpad. I love the MBP line, but I can't stand the feel of the keyboards. If they could put the current thinkpad keyboard in a rMBP or MBP, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[Wild-Bill]

My 12" G4 PowerBook has the best keyboard ever.

^ FTW ^

/end thread

 

[nw9]

Titanium is a LOT stronger than Aluminium though. And that wasn't a unibody, there was a frame inside the laptop. In the unibody the housing itself is the frame.

You do have good points.

Yeah in some ways I also miss the old form factor. Not so much for the keyboard because I don't remember how much better it was, but for the edges. I think the sharp edges of the unibody are uncomfortable. I loved the round plastic edges on the old G4s (and first-model MBPs). They were even sharper on my white MacBook but at least I was able sand them down without ruining the material. No chance of that on the aluminium ones.

I would have to agree with you about the form factor overall. The sharp edges were one of the first things I noticed about the unibody MBPs. The mirror glossy screen was another thing I noticed right away. Since Apple doesn't offer anti-glare on the 13" I'm forced to get the 15". I prefer the 15" anyway so it wasn't too much of an issue for me. I've also used anti-glare screen protectors, but they aren't the same quality as a true anti-glare screen from Apple.

They make beautiful computers though, I give them that

I agree on that also. In my opinion my unibody MBP is prettier than my PowerBook, but it doesn't take much to get both form and function from the unibody MBPs. If Apple would take the time to figure a way to round the edges more and add curved chicklet keys, then those are just two examples of ways that Apple can make their MBPs even better.

There should be a good compromise between form and function. Apple seems to lean more on the form side more often. Another example, I personally don't need my next MBP to get any thinner especially if it means there is a compromise in something else I think is more important.

Wow. Quite the pro-Mac response.

It is an Apple forum. Some people may not have used that many Windows laptops before switching over to Macs.

 

[skaertus]

Well, I have just walked out of a store, having tested the keyboards of some thin-and-light laptops and ultraportables and I am just disappointed with the experience.

The keyboard of the cMBP felt very good, as always. The keyboard of the rMBP had less key travel, but it felt more solid, perhaps because the laptop is very compact and well-built. The keyboard on the MBA also provided a good experience, somewhat similar to the one found in the rMBP.

But the Windows laptops were dreadful, most of them.

Sony Vaios were particularly disappointing. The Vaio T had a somewhat well-built body, but the keys had no resistance against my fingers. The Vaio S had somewhat better keys, but the but the body of the laptop underneath the keyboard seemed so fragile...

The Dell XPS 15 looked good, but the keyboard was disappointing, as the keys seemed to have no responsiveness when I clicked them. Strangely, the keyboard on Dell Inspiron felt much better, with a much better response from the keys (actually, it was one of the best keyboards that I tested). This is particularly strange because the XPS is supposed to be Dell's premium line, and Inspiron should be the budget laptop.

The 11-inch Asus Taichi had an OK keyboard, but keys were small. I could live with that, provided that most keyboards were crap). Asus VivoBook had a similar keyboard.

The Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga had one of the best keyboards that I tested. Good key travel and tactile feedback. Keys felt solid. The Lenovo G series, comprised by budget laptops, on the other hand, had dreadful keyboards.

Overall, the best keyboards were the ones found on the MacBooks, on the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga and on the Dell Inspiron line. Most of the others were bad keyboards.

Does anybody else have similar impressions on this?

 

[numbersyx]

Mac portables pre-unibody.

+1. Much prefer my 2007 MBP keyboard to what came later. Having seen the comments on the ThinkPad I must try those out at the local comp store...

 

[GermanyChris]

+1. Much prefer my 2007 MBP keyboard to what came later. Having seen the comments on the ThinkPad I must try those out at the local comp store...

I prefer my powerbook to my Thinkpad pre-Lenovo..but the IBM nub is still the best if you lack the multitouch trackpad.

 

[skaertus]

+1. Much prefer my 2007 MBP keyboard to what came later. Having seen the comments on the ThinkPad I must try those out at the local comp store...

I like my white MacBook, I think it has a great keyboard. But I've never been able to test the new ThinkPads. I have used some ThinkPads, but they have the old-fashioned keyboard, not the chicklet ones. How does the ThinkPad X230 or the X1 Carbon feel? Any different from the Yoga?

 

[OnlyGerman]

I prefer the macbook pro, I feel the air's keys are pushed in a little.

 

[cvkai]

I like my white MacBook, I think it has a great keyboard. But I've never been able to test the new ThinkPads. I have used some ThinkPads, but they have the old-fashioned keyboard, not the chicklet ones. How does the ThinkPad X230 or the X1 Carbon feel? Any different from the Yoga?

Don't you prefer a Brazilian (ABNT2) layout keyboard?

I also like the MBP keyboard. It's better than the MBA's.

 

[skaertus]

Don't you prefer a Brazilian (ABNT2) layout keyboard?

It makes no real difference for me. In fact, I think I prefer the US International keyboard over the ABNT2 layout.

I also like the MBP keyboard. It's better than the MBA's.

Have you notice any substantial difference between the keyboards in the MacBook Air and the retina MacBook Pro?

 

[Ploki]

You guys are overdoing it.

I can't tell the difference between my old MBP unibody and my Retina keyboard. Same ****

Mac portables pre-unibody.

Macbook white had a very similar keyboard as the unibodies, black as well

 

[GermanyChris]

You guys are overdoing it.

I can't tell the difference between my old MBP unibody and my Retina keyboard. Same ****




Macbook white had a very similar keyboard as the unibodies, black as well

You are correct, I'll be more specific next time.

 

[skaertus]

You guys are overdoing it.

I can't tell the difference between my old MBP unibody and my Retina keyboard. Same ****

Really? I have tested them both side by side, and I noticed a clear difference.

Macbook white had a very similar keyboard as the unibodies, black as well

Yes, it is similar. There seems to be some difference, though, and I think it is due to the materials used.

 

[Ploki]

Really? I have tested them both side by side, and I noticed a clear difference.



Yes, it is similar. There seems to be some difference, though, and I think it is due to the materials used.

It's suppose to have shallower key travel.. But I don't know. Maybe i'm just not that sensitive about keyboards. But it's true I grew up on deep travel "clicky" keybarods. Man where they loud. And big. And grey.

 

[Joseph Farrugia]

Apple (wired) Keyboard with Numeric Keypad A1243

Incredible tactile experience. I was stunned how good the keyboard of my early 2011 15" MBP was, but I am blown away by this.

 

[skaertus]

Incredible tactile experience. I was stunned how good the keyboard of my early 2011 15" MBP was, but I am blown away by this.

Yes, Apple's keyboard is absolutely great. I have a wireless keyboard that I use with my iPad, and it feels fantastic to type on. But it is not very straightforward to carry around with my laptop.

 

[cvkai]

Have you notice any substantial difference between the keyboards in the MacBook Air and the retina MacBook Pro?

I haven't tried the rMBP keyboard, so I can't say if it's better than MBA.
But I don't think that the keyboard will be a important factor about choosing between rMBP and MBA. I'll consider screen, weight and price when Haswell comes.