Which macOS to upgrade to?

[Ambrosia7177]

I am having lots of audio troubles on my Retina, and since I have another 2015 Retina that is identical and sitting idle, I am thinking now might be a good time to install a newer macOS, and try to get allof my audio software set up on that newer machine.

So often problems arise with setups because you don't have the latest and greatest.

Catalina scares me from what I have heard about it "bricking" people computers..

If you had to choose between High Sierra and Mojave, which one would you choose and why?

I am quite comfortable with Sierra on my first Retina, but because of many unexplained audio issues, I am thinking I need to try a newer OS and on another machine, because, who knows, maybe I have a bad logic board or sound card on my first Retina?!

Thanks.

 

[casperes1996]

Since at least 10.14.4 and definitely on 10.14.6, Mojave has been really stable and solid all around for me - more so than High Sierra or Sierra. So I'd recommend just going to Mojave, which is also still supported from a security perspective

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Since at least 10.14.4 and definitely on 10.14.6, Mojave has been really stable and solid all around for me - more so than High Sierra or Sierra. So I'd recommend just going to Mojave, which is also still supported from a security perspective

Okay, thanks for the thoughts!

 

[hallux]

Catalina scares me from what I have heard about it "bricking" people computers

Apparently not an issue on a 2015. The bricking was happening on machines with T2 chips, I believe the 2017, 2018 and 2019 MBP's (or maybe just the 2018 and 2019 machines).

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Apparently not an issue on a 2015. The bricking was happening on machines with T2 chips, I believe the 2017, 2018 and 2019 MBP's (or maybe just the 2018 and 2019 machines).

Good to know, but it still scares me.

So when that happens, you have to take it to an Apple store or send it in to Apple to get it fixed, right? (And, f course, you cannot go to an Apple store currently - at least not where I am!)

 

[hallux]

Apparently a DFU recovery (much as can be done on an iPhone to do a complete OS reinstall) can be done to try to restore it. Again, with your devices it's a moot point as the 2015 doesn't have the T2 chip.

I updated both of my 2012 units yesterday (finally) and had no issues with the supplemental update.

 

[Fishrrman]

Mojave.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

For my immediate problem - fubared audio on my Mac - I'm just going to install a clone of Sierra on my idle Retina, uninstall some apps, and see if I can get things fixed. If ot, then I might have to break down and build a new machine.

God to know Mojave is the way to go.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Operating systems are not wine - they do not get better with age. Since macOS is on a one-year cycle, each year's version gets "better in the bottle" (bug fixes, etc.) for that one-year period. After that, there are no more fixes or improvements (security patches, yes). So, while there are always flaws that do not get fixed, they are few and affect very few, because that's the nature of prioritization.

So does it really matter whether you use the final version of Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave, or (coming soon) Catalina? All of them are as good as they'll ever be. After that, it's a matter of whether you want the latest security features, integration with Apple's current ecosystem and services (try getting the Apple TV app on anything other than Catalina), etc.

Yes, there were reports of some T2-equipped Macs being bricked back in September/October 2019. There were apparently some EFI fixes that needed to be made. The fixes were made many months ago. The version of Catalina that's available for download from Apple has all the fixes. And since you don't have a T2-equipped Mac, that doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Operating systems are not wine - they do not get better with age. Since macOS is on a one-year cycle, each year's version gets "better in the bottle" (bug fixes, etc.) for that one-year period. After that, there are no more fixes or improvements (security patches, yes). So, while there are always flaws that do not get fixed, they are few and affect very few, because that's the nature of prioritization.

I never said they get better, but some versions work better than others. (Certainly you aren't implying that Sierra = High Sierra = Mojave? Even Apple makes "ducks"!)

So does it really matter whether you use the final version of Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave, or (coming soon) Catalina? All of them are as good as they'll ever be. After that, it's a matter of whether you want the latest security features, integration with Apple's current ecosystem and services (try getting the Apple TV app on anything other than Catalina), etc.

Security updates? Yes. The latest-and-greatest? Not usually.

Yes, there were reports of some T2-equipped Macs being bricked back in September/October 2019. There were apparently some EFI fixes that needed to be made. The fixes were made many months ago. The version of Catalina that's available for download from Apple has all the fixes. And since you don't have a T2-equipped Mac, that doesn't matter anyway.

I was just beig certain. That, and, some day if I do get a T2, I don't want to get bricked, because I know that if things can break, it will happen to me!!

 

[russell_314]

Mojave if you plan on using outdated 32 bit apps. Catalina if you aren't worried about that.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I never said they get better, but some versions work better than others. (Certainly you aren't implying that Sierra = High Sierra = Mojave? Even Apple makes "ducks"!)

To a large extent, yes, I am. Everyone has their own opinion, colored by their personal experiences and preferences. I've used them all, and I do not fondly recall a "better" version from the past. There are changes which I may or may not love, there are changes that I do love. It's a mixed bag each and every year, mostly in favor of the new (but that's my personal prejudice). I doubt you'll ever find an objective measure of "the best."

I was just beig certain. That, and, some day if I do get a T2, I don't want to get bricked, because I know that if things can break, it will happen to me!!

Since that issue was patched, not a worry.

 

[||\||]

Sierra is basically El Capitan with Siri added. Unless you actually use Siri on your Mac, there isn't much of a reason to use that OS. In my experience, 2015 Macs tend to run best on the original OS (10.11) or Mojave. The only reasons why my 2015 iMac and 2017 MBP are on 10.14.6 is: 1) dark mode 2) Canon RAW file codec - otherwise, they would both be on the original install for the lifetime of use.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

To a large extent, yes, I am.

Good to know!

Since that issue was patched, not a worry.

Okay, good. (I want to be prepared for like 2025!)

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Sierra is basically El Capitan with Siri added. Unless you actually use Siri on your Mac, there isn't much of a reason to use that OS. In my experience, 2015 Macs tend to run best on the original OS (10.11) or Mojave. The only reasons why my 2015 iMac and 2017 MBP are on 10.14.6 is: 1) dark mode 2) Canon RAW file codec - otherwise, they would both be on the original install for the lifetime of use.

Okay.

Either way, I think it is easiest just to use a recent clone and build my other Retina to troubleshoot.

If I install a new OS, then I have to install a lot of apps, and that isn't worth the effort for what I need to accomplish.

But maybe later this summer I will play around with Mojave...

 

[honestone33]

It has been a long time since I have seen anything "earth shattering" in versions of the Mac OS. But I do want to keep up to date, mainly 1) for the security updates, and 2) for third party applications and their support. I do not use any Apple applications at all (OK, except for the Finder), so third party applications compatibility is critical.

I also do not have any of the issues that others have with each new version of the Mac OS. I suspect the reasons that is so are:

1. I always keep my machines "lean, mean, and clean".
2. I make sure to keep up to date with the Mac OS and its versions.
3. I always insure to keep up to date with all the third party apps I use.
4. I have a "strict" maintenance/backup schedule that I adhere to: Run Onyx, Tech Tool Pro, and SuperDuper! every Saturday.
5. I do not "move" to a new version of the Mac OS until ALL my third party applications are compatible with the new OS (sometimes, I have to give up some, like Magic Number Machine (a fantastic calculator), and Quicken 2007). I actually have 6 critical ones that must be compatible before I upgrade, and for the past few years, Tech Tool Pro has always been the last one to offer a compatible version. That being the case, I thus do not move to the new OS until at least the .3 version of it has been released. By that time, a number of the initial bugs have been fixed. Also, I have yet to see any compelling reasons for moving to the new OS. I used the last version of Mojave until December, and it easily satisfied my needs. I am certain I will do the same with Catalina (which has been working fine for me).

For all those reasons, I have yet to encounter any issues whenever I "move" to the new OS. And I always do a fresh, clean installation of the new OS.

Remember, taking care of computers is just like taking care of anything else: automobiles, one's home, appliances, etc.

In any event, Mojave would be a good choice, if one is against using Catalina. But again, I have no issues with Catalina at all.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@honestone33,

All very compelling, except you forget the age old practice of, "If it works, don't fix it!"

I take care of my Mac too, and I install all updates when they come out, and my Mac is very hardened, so I don't see any compelling reasons to update to the next macOS unless there is good reason.

 

[honestone33]

@honestone33,

All very compelling, except you forget the age old practice of, "If it works, don't fix it!"

I take care of my Mac too, and I install all updates when they come out, and my Mac is very hardened, so I don't see any compelling reasons to update to the next macOS unless there is good reason.

Agreed with "If it works, don't fix it". But as I stated very clearly above, I want to 1) keep up with security updates, and 2) keep up with updates for all my third party applications. And as I also mentioned, I see no compelling reason to upgrade immediately to the first (or even second) version of a new Mac OS. In a way, my requirement for ALL my third party applications to be compatible with the new OS works out very, very well, as I do not "upgrade" to the new OS until at least the .3 version has been released. And in the case of High Sierra, the compatible version of Tech Tool Pro was not ready until after 10.13.3 had been released. So I upgraded to V10.13.4. In all cases, just about all the bugs were worked out.

And as I said, I continued to use OS10.14.6, the last version of Mojave, until well into December. So, yes, things were not broke, but I was using a prior version of the current Mac OS. As it is, I always make the decision WAY early that I am going to upgrade to the new Mac OS, just not immediately. (I am already planning for the next version of the Mac OS, and as always, I will be more than ready, and I do not expect any issues at all).

 

[||\||]

If I install a new OS, then I have to install a lot of apps, and that isn't worth the effort for what I need to accomplish.

You only need to do this if you are going backward with an install. Otherwise, just update to the desired OS.

Security updates are a valid peripheral concern, but something a lot of users can do without. Sercurity concerns are largely overblown in Macs and malware is easily avoided in 2020. Safe browsing practices is mainly what will keep the machine protected.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

You only need to do this if you are going backward with an install. Otherwise, just update to the desired OS.

Security updates are a valid peripheral concern, but something a lot of users can do without. Sercurity concerns are largely overblown in Macs and malware is easily avoided in 2020. Safe browsing practices is mainly what will keep the machine protected.

So I could clone my empty Retina, then install Mojave, and (in theory) all of my apps and settings from the original clone would be left untouched, but I would have Mojave instead?

If so, that's good to know, but either way upon firther thinking, I don't think this will help me.

My audio issues are either 1.) I have a bad logic board or sound board/chip, or 2.) my apps are messed up and so a reinstall fo them will help.

(With my luck, it's #1, but we'll find out...)

 

[||\||]

So I could clone my empty Retina, then install Mojave, and (in theory) all of my apps and settings from the original clone would be left untouched, but I would have Mojave instead?

If so, that's good to know, but either way upon firther thinking, I don't think this will help me.

My audio issues are either 1.) I have a bad logic board or sound board/chip, or 2.) my apps are messed up and so a reinstall fo them will help.

(With my luck, it's #1, but we'll find out...)

You can do a clean install and then use the migration tool if you want. You can also just upgrade the OS through the normal update process via DMG installer if it is still available. That's what I did with my 2015 iMac. It had been on 10.11 until 2019 when I updated to 10.14. Everything went smoothly. Always clone the old install first in the event that things don't work out for you.

 

[honestone33]

You can do a clean install and then use the migration tool if you want. You can also just upgrade the OS through the normal update process via DMG installer if it is still available. That's what I did with my 2015 iMac. It had been on 10.11 until 2019 when I updated to 10.14. Everything went smoothly. Always clone the old install first in the event that things don't work out for you.

Yes, after making a bootable backup/clone of your current system with either SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner, you would then launch the installer for the newer Mac OS, do a fresh, clean installation of it, then migrate/copy all your "needed" items from that just completed backup. That is what I always do, and it works well. You will, of course, need to insure that all your third party software is compatible with the newer Mac OS, and that could involve doing some updates first. I actually start by having a copy of the installer on my current system, then run Onyx, Tech Tool Pro, and SuperDuper!, and last I restart the respective Mac from that just completed bootable backup. I navigate to the installer, and proceed as I described above.

Note that you still have your original "problematic" system as a backup. Also, if after that process, you still have issues, and suspect it is an application (or applications), then that of course is way more challenging.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Yes, after making a bootable backup/clone of your current system with either SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner, you would then launch the installer for the newer Mac OS, do a fresh, clean installation of it, then migrate/copy all your "needed" items from that just completed backup. That is what I always do, and it works well.

You can't just go into a CCC clone and select all of your applciations and preferences and config files and copy them over to a new machine, so I fail to see how that approach would make sense.

@||\|| makes it sound like I could just install Mojave over the clone that I put on my second Retina, and the installer will install Mojave over Sierra, but leave all of my applications, settings, preferences untouched. (And I think I have heard that before on here.)

 

[honestone33]

You can't just go into a CCC clone and select all of your applciations and preferences and config files and copy them over to a new machine, so I fail to see how that approach would make sense.

@||\|| makes it sound like I could just install Mojave over the clone that I put on my second Retina, and the installer will install Mojave over Sierra, but leave all of my applications, settings, preferences untouched. (And I think I have heard that before on here.)

Before you state how that approach would make sense, it's important to understand the CLEAN INSTALLATION process. You do not go "directly" into the SD or CCC clone to select items. When you do a CLEAN, FRESH, VIRGIN installation of the Mac OS, at the end, you are the offered the opportunity to migrate/copy "items" from a backup. You select the backup source, then the process will list the 4 categories of items which will be migrated/copied from the backup.

I have done this numerous times, using a SuperDuper! bootable backup/clone, and it works like a charm.

Now, if you just upgrade from your current OS to a newer one, then yes, you are not offered the opportunity to migrate/copy needed files, apps, settings, etc. from a backup.

So, in simple terms, for a Clean installation of a newer Mac OS, you are offered the opportunity to migrate/copy items from a backup (makes no difference whether it's a Time Machine, SD, or CCC backup). For just upgrading a current OS to a newer version, you will not be offered that opportunity.

 

[||\||]

@||\|| makes it sound like I could just install Mojave over the clone that I put on my second Retina, and the installer will install Mojave over Sierra, but leave all of my applications, settings, preferences untouched. (And I think I have heard that before on here.)

Yes, you can do this. It is the easiest way to update. I have done it from 10.11 to 10.14 and everything worked out just fine. I am not sure of the difference between clean install/migration and updating via .dmg installer. It seems like a migration would carry over all the same config files and settings, the end result being basically the same. I could be wrong, though. Update via .dmg installer deletes files and setting unnecessary for the new OS. You should see more free storage space reclaimed afterward. This leads me to believe they are pretty much the same in the end.

Have you tried overwriting the install of the current OS? You can do this without affecting any of your personal files (document, music, video, etc.). Boot into recovery mode.
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Now, if you just upgrade from your current OS to a newer one, then yes, you are not offered the opportunity to migrate/copy needed files, apps, settings, etc. from a backup.

It is not offered, because there would be no need for this. All you are doing in the update prcoess is overwriting the core OS. Personal files and relevant settings are untouched, so migrating is unnecessary.