Which MBP to replace my late-2011 15" MBP?

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

Yes personally I think mid 2012 is the best machine.
I don't know if there is a definitive list of MBP problems for later models, maybe if you google hard enough you'll find it.
Incidentally Dosdude1 has some patching software to enable later OS to be installed on older machines but I'm not sure how well they'd run on it.

 

[pshufd]

I have a 2014 15 base model with 512 GB and a 2015 2.5 Ghz with 512 GB. I just reformatted and installed Mojave on the 2015 yesterday to remove my employer security software off of it. The 2015 normally sits on a bookcase next to my desk and I have a 28 inch 4K and a 25 inch QHD attached to it along with mouse, keyboard, speakers and microphone. It's a great machine. I bought this refurbished early 2019 (or was it 2018) for $1,100. It has some dings and dents but I didn't care - it had a pretty good configuration and it's been a workhorse.

I mainly used the 2014 for personal stuff and the 2015 for work stuff and I'm going to reformat and rebuild that system as well. I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do with it - it might be a floater in the living room. It's still a great machine though. Battery is strong and it's in fantastic shape.

I had a look around at 2014s and 2015s and they are quite difficult to find in my area now and most of them are base 2.2 Ghz/Integrated graphics versions. The WFH and remote learning for school and college has created a run on used laptops I think. I plan to keep using these notebooks until they die and having a backup is part of that strategy. I'm quite interested in Apple Silicon - I'm thinking that that will be my migration path.

My 2008 MacBook Pro died in 2018 and I expect about ten years out of these two laptops as well.

I would definitely recommend the 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros. The 2015 has the much faster SSD and it would probably be the best model. One really nice thing is that it has all of the old ports.

I would not touch a butterfly model.

 

[aangvento]

@MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun thanks for a long reply. I don't think I'd go with anything before late-2013, as I'd like my "new" MBP to run the latest macOS (Big Sur). Sadly, a lot of later generations (post-2012) have been plagued by various problems indeed, but so far I haven't been able to find a comprehensive list with all defects and potential issues of each model year-by-year. If someone has it, please do post it here.

If I manage to 'fix' my current late-2011 MBP using the link you provided above so that I wouldn't need to bring it back to live on each restart/shut down, I may postpone the purchase of a MBP for a while though.

If you can, I recommend postponing. The market is inflated right now, with the pandemic, and you might get more for your money at the end of the year or next year.

All models have defects. 2020 have serious heating problems but is the best so far. anything from 2019 to 2016 is a no no because of the dreadful butterfly keyboard. 2015 have problems with the backlight cable that you destroy by just opening the computer. 2015 15" is not allowed in planes because of explosive battery. 2014 are the safest ones. I recommend sticking to a 13" unless you really need the performance, as the duo GPUs tend to have problems with newer versions of the OS, if they work at all. From all of those, I would recommend a 2015, as it has the new force-touch

OP, every single macbook has some stupid design flaw that you cannot understand how it got past testing phase if there is one. 2011 has the crazy dying GPU. 2012-2013 have bad gpus in some models too, but late 2012 and 2013 are more stable than others. 2014 is a pretty safe bet, once it's design flaws exist but are not prominent. 2015s have the same problem that late 2013 to 2015 have: you break the back-light cable by just opening the computer up and closing it. It is just made in a way that stresses the cable when it doesn't need to. 2015 15" isn't allowed in planes because of potential explosive battery, even after a recall for battery replacement from apple. 2015 models have dying original SSDs. 2016-2019 are just a mess with the butterfly keyboard and truthfully not worth your money if you are on a budget because you will have to replace the keyboard often, most likely, what leaves you with the most recent one with dire overheating problems and quite expensive.

Understand that they all have problems, you need to get one where the problem isn't a deal-breaker. Not all machines are perfect, no matter what the company tells you. I would personally recommend a 2015 13" model because the SSD problem should be easy to sort out, the cable is easy to replace and it has the fancy new trackpad "force touch", the one without a physical click button. I would suggest you stay away from dual GPUs unless you really need them because they might prevent you from patching the notebook for a more recent operating system later when it's not supported if you plan to keep it for more than just 2 years or so. Even if we don't know how long they will keep intel macbooks up to date with the most recent OS.

Good luck on your search, OP!

But I already said all of this! So, good luck OP =)

keyboard, and the cable problem is something any technician can replace in one hour (or even you yourself.)

 

[jon08]

Thanks for your input everyone.

I'm wondering, is there a template of sorts online - like an image in the size of the 13" MBP display that I could open on my 15" MBP to see how much smaller is the 13" screen when compared to 15"?

 

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

I don't know of any template but there is lots about this if you google. I can tell you a few things from my experience with a 13", there are some things you may not think of.
Before I did my music degree I had a 17" but after the 1st year the GPU died. As I was in the middle of a degree I didn't have time to research the problem so I got a 13" to get me by so these are the pros and cons I discovered. Incidentally, on my 13" somehow the LVDS cable managed to detach from the display and had to be reattached which involved taking the screen off, I'm not sure that this is a common problem though. 13" is not going to be so much fun for gaming because of CPU and small screen. Movies aren't so great on a 13". After I finished my degree I bought a 17" with a defective gpu cheap and disabled the discrete gpu, this one has the 2.5Ghz CPU its a BTO version. Its really fast and I'm loving have the big screen again, its like a relief to not have to fight for screen space anymore. I recently found a company called ALB repairs that will replace gpus so I might have that done, my only reservation would be what they are replacing it with, where they get the replacement gpu from. If I decide to go ahead I will ask them about that, the cost is £170-190 but this would be a luxury as I don't really need the discrete gpu as I can still use my 13" with the TV if I want.
Cons:
On older ones 13" tends to have i5/i7 dual core rather than i7 quad core, weaker processor - very noticeable for me, I had to bounce tracks more frequently when working in Logic Pro x to reduce plugin load. Newer ones will have inferior processors to 15" machines.
Some apps wouldn't go into split screen display because there wasn't space, Adobe digital editions for example so if I wanted to take notes on a book using pages I had to carefully shift the windows and adjust zoom so I could see both. Guitar pro also wouldn't go into split screen. There were a few apps that wouldn't go into split screen. Working on a big project with lots of tracks is a pain as was working with midi and zooming in to get more accuracy for adjusting automations, you can't really work practically with the tracks view and mixer/edit views at the same time. Working on graphics/Publisher I had to zoom in much more for accuracy. I found myself using the multiple desktop functionality more so rather than using split screen (I still use these more since going back to 17" its a really handy feature so I learned something from using a 13" for a while).
You can't get a 13" with an antiglare display, antiglare displays are much better in my opinion. It's easier on the eyes.
I usually use headphones but the sound from the speakers on a 13" is inferior to 17".
There is no microphone socket on 2011/2012.
13" doesn't have separate arrow keys on the keyboard, which are good for navigating documents and might be of interest to gamers.
Camera angle is not quite as good (probably a negligible issue).
Pros:
They are very small and light for carrying around and less likely to get knocked.
Probably more manageable if you want to take it out in a coffee shop.
More a proper 'lap'top than a desktop with a folding display. Although you probably still don't want them directly on your legs because of the heat.
You can hold them comfortably in one hand.
They take up less space in a bag, you can have a smaller bag.
The whole screen in your main field of vision where as the edges of a 17" are in your peripheral vision. You don't have to move your eyes around the screen.
They require less space on a desk, say if you want to put it down on someones desk next to their laptop so you can show them something.
They don't have discrete GPU so are probably more reliable.
Batteries are cheaper, chargers are cheaper and easier to find but then you don't need to buy a lot of these.
Hinges probably last longer but the relevance of this has more to do with how you treat the computer.
Probably last longer on battery.
Cheaper.

I think this is why 15" was always popular, because its a good compromise between the two.

Probably has a lot to do with what you use it for.

 

[aangvento]

Thanks for your input everyone.

I'm wondering, is there a template of sorts online - like an image in the size of the 13" MBP display that I could open on my 15" MBP to see how much smaller is the 13" screen when compared to 15"?

Hey OP, I had some free time so I decided to do some math and draw this on photoshop. I don't know which is the best way for you to see it, so decided to add both .png and .psd files. This is for retina MacBooks (12 retina - 2015), or first retina generation. While the pixel density is very different, the screen sizes should be close, according to apple's website.

But keep in mind this is not as good as going and seeing it in person. Smaller screens have sharper images, but it is more about how big you need text to be, really. I recommend going to an apple store if its safe for you and taking a look at their 13 and 15 inches models. They should have about the same resolution and size.

Identify your MacBook Pro - Apple Support

Learn all the ways to identify your MacBook Pro model.

support.apple.com

http://www.mediafire.com/file/b5c4qg5oby9hppq/macbook_sizes.psd/file (.psd file)

Edit: The resolution in the image should be pixel/inch² ... I forgot about it and it is certainly not worth the hassle to edit the image. Shouldn't change any conclusions too.

 

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

Another thing I just noticed, it takes two sweeps to take the pointer the whole way across the screen on a 17" and one sweep on a 13". 17" Easier to be accurate if you are drawing and less need for zooming but on 13" its quicker for manipulating of windows/general use.

 

[aangvento]

Another thing I just noticed, it takes two sweeps to take the pointer the whole way across the screen on a 17" and one sweep on a 13". 17" Easier to be accurate if you are drawing and less need for zooming but on 13" its quicker for manipulating of windows/general use.

I am quite sure you can thinker with pointer acceleration in the trackpad to make up for it. 17" isn't a good choice once they would all be about the same age as OP's current laptop.

 

[jon08]

Hey OP, I had some free time so I decided to do some math and draw this on photoshop. I don't know which is the best way for you to see it, so decided to add both .png and .psd files. This is for retina MacBooks (12 retina - 2015), or first retina generation. While the pixel density is very different, the screen sizes should be close, according to apple's website.

But keep in mind this is not as good as going and seeing it in person. Smaller screens have sharper images, but it is more about how big you need text to be, really. I recommend going to an apple store if its safe for you and taking a look at their 13 and 15 inches models. They should have about the same resolution and size.

Identify your MacBook Pro - Apple Support

Learn all the ways to identify your MacBook Pro model.

support.apple.com

http://www.mediafire.com/file/b5c4qg5oby9hppq/macbook_sizes.psd/file (.psd file)

Edit: The resolution in the image should be pixel/inch² ... I forgot about it and it is certainly not worth the hassle to edit the image. Shouldn't change any conclusions too.

Wow, that's really kind of you. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this!

May I just ask, how can I open this image in full screen on my MBP?

 

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

I am quite sure you can thinker with pointer acceleration in the trackpad to make up for it. 17" isn't a good choice once they would all be about the same age as OP's current laptop.

I was just pointing out some differences I have noticed as I have had both sizes. 15" is in the middle. It's true you can probably change the acceleration but it is still a different experience moving a pointer around on a smaller screen.

 

[aangvento]

I was just pointing out some differences I have noticed as I have had both sizes. 15" is in the middle. It's true you can probably change the acceleration but it is still a different experience moving a pointer around on a smaller screen.

That is true, and is something super interesting if you are an artist. The small drawing tablet matches your screen. So if you have a small tablet ad a big screen, it's like "losing drawing resolution".

Wow, that's really kind of you. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this!

May I just ask, how can I open this image in full screen on my MBP?

You can likely save the picture and then open it with a photo app. Make it full screen and zoom the image until it matches the edge.

If you have photoshop, right-click the image once you open the PSD file and click original size.
You could also just open it in a new tab and zoom in until it fits most of the screen to get an approximate size

 

[jon08]

That is true, and is something super interesting if you are an artist. The small drawing tablet matches your screen. So if you have a small tablet ad a big screen, it's like "losing drawing resolution".



You can likely save the picture and then open it with a photo app. Make it full screen and zoom the image until it matches the edge.

If you have photoshop, right-click the image once you open the PSD file and click original size.
You could also just open it in a new tab and zoom in until it fits most of the screen to get an approximate size

I can see now, thanks! Quite a difference in size, I must say... Not so sure I'd want to downgrade to 13" now.

 

[aangvento]

I can see now, thanks! Quite a difference in size, I must say... Not so sure I'd want to downgrade to 13" now.

I have downgraded from 15 to 13 inches a couple years ago and there isn't much difference after you get used to it, really. Only in very specific things. It looks worse than it really is when you look at a comparation like that. Keep in mind that they are selling the extra hardware not just the screen. But if you think you need it, go 15" if toh have the money! There isnt much to say about it. Apple doesnt give yoh many options.

 

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

When I downgraded from 17" to 13" I eventually got used to it but when I went back up to 17" I loved it. Although granted 15 to 13 isn't as big a difference as 17 to 13.

 

[jon08]

So I still haven't decided which MBP I'd get..

If I were to switch to 13" MBP, would a 2018 model be a good choice if I could get it *relatively* cheap? I found someone selling a 2018 model 13” MBP with 2.3Ghz i5 with Iris Plus 655 and 256GB SSD in almost mint condition for 900 EUR? Would it be worth it? Regrettably it comes with a touchbar... would still prefer physical keys.

Then there's another option for 2015 13" model with 2.9Ghz i5 and 512GB SSD in excellent condition for 600 EUR...

 

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

If you went with a 2018 perhaps I'd be investigating:-
Known issues/faults
SSD size and if the SSD is replaceable - are you ok with the life of the computer to be linked to the life of the SSD
Is the processor actually dual core or quad core
Check and make sure it doesn't have the butterfly keyboard
Check it if has Retina display problems
Ram is probably soldered too so make sure its enough.

Just a thought - you could probably buy two or three 2012 MBPs on the 2nd hand market for 900eur.
I currently have 5 2011/2012 MacBook pros, 2x13" 2x15"and 1x 17".
I like having a few as its less stress when one breaks, I just swap the drives over and fix the other at my leisure when I have time.

 

[jon08]

^2018 model has a quad core processor afaik, which should be, what, 25-30% faster?

One thing I’m worried about is that it has only 8gb ram and a 256gb ssd... 8gb seems rather little in 2020, no? And doesn’t seem too “future proof”...

Today i went to a local Apple reseller to try out the 13” .. they had a late-2016 model with a touchbar on display and here are my observations:

- screen size: surprisingly nice, not as small as I thought it would be! Seems quite acceptable.

- speed: I’m surprised that opening apps like iMovie etc takes like 5 bounces or so on the Dock before it opens... I’d expect with these newer fast SSDs the apps would open instantly?!

- keyboard: seems just fine to type on, even tho this was a 2016 model

- touchbar: it works fine but it’s kinda meh in my opinion.. would still prefer physical keys i think

Another question is: if I were to buy a 2017/2018 model, how much more money would I need to spend on extra dongles? I’d need at least one USB port and possibly an option to connect my MBP to a Dell external monitor sometimes in the future...

 

[MacTinkerer2011Fan-Pun]

My 2 cents.

I have 16gb on my MBPs but I could work just as easily with 8gb for my music applications, I don't think my apps are even using 8gb. Look at the apps you use and the recommended requirements. Yes for future proofing might be better off with 16gb.

I think 2016 has butterfly keyboard which is prone to failure if the tiniest bit of dust gets in. It may work not but with this issue you may not be future proof. I remember a tutor at college had to use his with a separate usb keyboard he found that fitted on top of the broken keyboard. If this happens to your keyboard you'll be sick as a parrot probably.

Processor, you may not even need a quad core, depends what you use it for but quad core is way faster. I can't run my music apps properly with a dual core unless I bounce my plugins more frequently. Although for anything else I wouldn't notice except my apps do open that tiniest bit more quickly.

Yes I'd expect apps to open pretty quickly on a modern MacBook. Most of my apps on my 2011 open instantly or in less than two bounces unless they are scanning plugins.

My old Vaio had a sort of touch bar but it wasn't customisable, just touch buttons. It was handy because it meant I didn't have to press a toggle button to access function keys. On Mac sometimes I think its a pain to use fn to switch between function keys and say volume/brightness control etc. So touch bar could be a handy feature but I wouldn't let it influence my decision if it was me.

For connections you could look into hubs. I think its a bit ridiculous that everyones having to buy dongles and hubs these days, this is something I love about the old MacBook Pros and the SSD upgrade options.

I personally would never buy a computer with a soldered SSD as I have had an SSD fail on me before. I also like having a second hard drive in the CD drive space but then I need this moreso because audio files take up a lot of space.

 

[kohsamui100]

All I can say my 2016 15" with the four USB-C ports is a pain to deal with. So many issues... avoid.