Which model of iPad for navigation purposes?

[lesleyag]

Hi there, I know that this subject has probably been thrashed to bits but I would really and truly appreciate some good sound advice. I live in NZ and there are many areas where cellphone coverage drops out for quite long distances. My partner and I have just purchased an iPad Wi-Fi 32gb model and want to use it as a GPS unit in his large bus. None of the technical people I have spoken to today seem to know anything about which model we should have - iPad WiFi or iPad WiFi + 3G. A logical solution appears to be to buy a TomTom Car Kit with the Navigon Application, since it works on the iPad and an extender cable to connect the TomTom to the iPad but I am very unsure since I don't have any knowledge in this area. I would really appreciate if someone could give me a very clear and honest answer with some clear direction. Regards

 

[Stetrain]

I don't have any knowledge/experience regarding the TomTom kit, but I do know that the iPad WiFi does not have a GPS chip. To get real GPS built in you have to buy the 3G model, even if you never use the cell service.

 

[MrWillie]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/912798/

But it is cheaper to buy a TomTom

I don't have any knowledge/experience regarding the TomTom kit, but I do know that the iPad WiFi does not have a GPS chip. To get real GPS built in you have to buy the 3G model, even if you never use the cell service.

TomTom kit is for iPod touch. There is a GPS unit in the holder and the data is sent to the iPod via (probably) the dock connector serial port.

 

[Kestrel452]

Buy a wi-fi only iPad, jailbreak it, then download BTstack_GPS off of Cydia. I've used it a lot, and it works quite well. The bluetooth GPS receiver i use is made by US Global Sat.

 

[lesleyag]

What happens to GPS if you are out of cell range

So what happens to the navigation system if you go out of cellphone range? I am thinking that if there was a dedicated GPS unit which works with both the iPod and the iPad, then would that not give more flexibility? I don't know anything about jail-breaking and wouldn't dare give it a go since it is my partner who owns the iPad and not me!

 

[tersono]

If you want built-in GPS you need the 3g version. The wi-fi only version does not have the GPS chip.

Some people have managed to use an external GPS unit with the wi-fi iPad, but it's messy - frankly you'd be better off just going and buying a TomTom instead.

Going out of range for cellphone reception is not going to affect the GPS

 

[Stetrain]

So what happens to the navigation system if you go out of cellphone range? I am thinking that if there was a dedicated GPS unit which works with both the iPod and the iPad, then would that not give more flexibility? I don't know anything about jail-breaking and wouldn't dare give it a go since it is my partner who owns the iPad and not me!

The GPS in the iPad 3G will still work when out of cellphone range (You need to buy a navigation app though that stores maps locally). From the posts above it sounds like the TomTom unit would work just as well except that I don't think it will physically fit an iPad.

 

[Richdmoore]

2 other GPS units to consider are the Bad Elf GPS, and the MFI 5870.

The advantage of these units is that they are apple certified (no jailbreak needed) and that they can be used with multiple ipod touch/iphone/ipad. I have tested both of them during commercial airline flights, they worked perfect when the built in GPS failed. They may be overkill for your environment however.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B004289ZW0

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0035Y7ZJ2

Both include either a mini or micro usb, so you can charge the bluetooth (MFI) or power both the GPS and iDevice (Bad Elf).

 

[Xeperu]

2 other GPS units to consider are the Bad Elf GPS, and the MFI 5870.

The advantage of these units is that they are apple certified (no jailbreak needed) and that they can be used with multiple ipod touch/iphone/ipad. I have tested both of them during commercial airline flights, they worked perfect when the built in GPS failed. They may be overkill for your environment however.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B004289ZW0

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0035Y7ZJ2

Both include either a mini or micro usb, so you can charge the bluetooth (MFI) or power both the GPS and iDevice (Bad Elf).

Bringing an external GPS device on a plane might not be the smartest thing these days. Have fun explaining that to the air marshall.

 

[ZilogZ80]

Bringing an external GPS device on a plane might not be the smartest thing these days. Have fun explaining that to the air marshall.

http://gpsinformation.net/airgps/airgps.htm

 

[Richdmoore]

Bringing an external GPS device on a plane might not be the smartest thing these days. Have fun explaining that to the air marshall.

EDIT: Beat me to the list!


A bit off topic, but here is the latest list I could find online of airlines that allow the use of GPS by passengers enroute.

Note: These are reports from newsgroup users.

Revised August 2010
Please let me know of any errors or additions. Joe Mehaffey

The Airlines which OFFICIALLY APPROVE the use of GPS receivers during CRUISE.

Aer Lingus
Air Canada
Air China
Air France
Air New Zealand
Air Malaysia
Air Tanzania
Alitalia (Italy)
Braathens (owned by SAS) Norway
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
CAAC (China Airlines, Mainland China)
China Southern Airlines
Continental Airlines (as of August 2007, changed AGAIN! 4th time!)
CrossAir
Delta Airlines (as of May 2009, UNteathered HANDHELD GPS units only allowed.)
DragonAir (China)
EasyJet (Europe)
Egypt Air
FinnAir
FlyBe Airlines (UK)
Icelandair
Jet Airways (India)
JetBlue Airways (USA, Changed back to OK as of April 2007)
KLM (Flight operations book under rule 120.8.5)
LAN Airlines Argentina
LOT Polish Airlines
Maersk Air (Denmark)
MidWest Express (USA)
Nationwide Airlines (South Africa)
NorthWest Airlines (Flight operations book under rule 120.8.5)
Precision Air (Tanzania)
Olympic Airlines (Greece)
Qantas as of 3/2/2007 per Tania<websupport@qantas.com.au> (yep.. Changed AGAIN!)
Singapore Air Lines
SAS
SN Brussels Airlines (as of 11/25/03 per <KTeirbroodt@brusselsairlines.com>
South African Airways
SouthWest Airlines (Changed AGAIN as of January 2009.. This is THREE changes in since early 2008.)
Sun Country (Regional USA)
Swiss (Was Swissair and CrossAir)
Tunis Air
United Air Lines (may ask if your GPS is FCC Class B approved. All handhelds are. Show them in the manual.)
Vanguard Airlines
WestJet Airlines (Canada)


Airlines which OFFICIALLY DO NOT APPROVE the use of GPS receivers at ANY time during flight.

(*) Individual Pilots may allow GPS use.

Alaska Airlines
Air Tran
America West Airlines
American Airlines (Changed again as of October 2009)
Britannia Airlines
El Al Airlines (Israel)
Frontier Airlines (as of June 2008)
Hawaiian Airlines(*)
Horizon Airlines(*)
Iberia Airlines(*)
Lufthansa Airlines
Mexicana airlines
Midway Express
Monarch Airlines
Ryanair (Irish) (as of January 2008)
Spirit Airlines
US Airways (was US Air) (as of December 2007)
Varig Airlines
Virgin Airlines (As of March 2007)

 

[phpmaven]

Did I miss something? What does taking a GPS unit on a plane have to do with his question?

In use my iPad as a GPS in my car and it works great with the huge screen. While it's true that the GPS chip will continue to function when out of range of cell signal, not every GPS app will work in that scenario. You have to have one that doesn't download it's map data on the fly. There are a few different choices that qualify. I use Navigon and I highly recommend it.

Obviously you're better off with dedicated GPS unit if that all you need. But it seems that you bought the iPad already so why not multi-purpose it.

 

[Gryzor]

I don't have any knowledge/experience regarding the TomTom kit, but I do know that the iPad WiFi does not have a GPS chip. To get real GPS built in you have to buy the 3G model, even if you never use the cell service.

Wrong. The WiFi only iPad DOES have a GPS chip inside. At home, with WiFi off, the iPad knows roughly where I am on the map. If I drive to my cousins who over 3 miles away, still with WiFi off, and check my location on the map again, it changes my location to roughly where his house is. It isn't very accurate or fast at tracking you when you are moving, but the chip is definitely on-board the WiFi only model, if not hooked up properly.

It's sometimes cheaper/easier to produce one board and just not use a component than produce two entirely different boards. You should all know that by now.

 

[Stetrain]

Wrong. The WiFi only iPad DOES have a GPS chip inside. At home, with WiFi off, the iPad knows roughly where I am on the map. If I drive to my cousins who over 3 miles away, still with WiFi off, and check my location on the map again, it changes my location to roughly where his house is. It isn't very accurate or fast at tracking you when you are moving, but the chip is definitely on-board the WiFi only model, if not hooked up properly.

It's sometimes cheaper/easier to produce one board and just not use a component than produce two entirely different boards. You should all know that by now.

There was a thread about this a month or two ago. Eventually we broke out the high resolution photos and chip analysis from iFixit. The GPS chip is on the same extra plug-in board as the 3G radios, and that board is not present in the WiFi model. The fact that it isn't very accurate or fast at tracking pretty much proves that you aren't using GPS, the logical conclusion here is that when you asked it to locate it powered on the WiFi radio.

 

[Gryzor]

There was a thread about this a month or two ago. Eventually we broke out the high resolution photos and chip analysis from iFixit. The GPS chip is on the same extra plug-in board as the 3G radios, and that board is not present in the WiFi model. The fact that it isn't very accurate or fast at tracking pretty much proves that you aren't using GPS, the logical conclusion here is that when you asked it to locate it powered on the WiFi radio.

WiFi was switched off when I left my house and left off when I got to his house, yet maps updated with my position. It also tracks (ish) position down country roads in the middle of nowhere with no WiFi signals to be picked up. Explain that.

 

[Stetrain]

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-3G-Teardown/2374/2

See the secondary communications board a bit down the page? It contains a "Broadcom A-GPS BCM47501UBG" GPS. Also the GPS antenna assembly. If you check their teardown for the iPad WiFi they won't be present.


Regarding your observations, they are a bit strange, but I don't see how they can stack up against the physical lack of a GPS chip and antenna, plus the behavior still doesn't match up with true GPS. One thing that might explain it is that the triangulation tech does not need a signal strong enough to transfer data, just to receive the MAC address of the broadcasting basestation. It's very possible that you were close enough to WiFi signals to track but not close enough for them to show up as workable signals when you searched for networks.

 

[kdarling]

WiFi was switched off when I left my house and left off when I got to his house, yet maps updated with my position. It also tracks (ish) position down country roads in the middle of nowhere with no WiFi signals to be picked up. Explain that.

There's no GPS chip on the WiFi only model.

So either you were in airplane mode, but with WiFi still on (but you thought airplane mode turned it off)...

Or some developer at Apple secretly turns on WiFi in a receive-only mode on the iPad if you ask for location services.

The latter would also require the surrounding WiFi MAC addressses/locations to be cached though, because otherwise it would have to go ask the Apple server what location corresponded to each hotspot, and that would require WiFi transmissions as well.