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w8ing4intelmacs

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 22, 2006
559
4
East Coast, US
I was able to snag a good deal on two MPs
1. 2010 single 2.8 quad core
2. 2009 dual 2.66 quad core

I got MP #1 to do some DIY tinkering/upgrading. I was about to purchase a six core westmere CPU when I lucked into #2.

Can't keep both. Which one should I keep? (I want to use the computer for personal photo and video editing for the next few years). Opinions welcome regarding future proof, ease of upgrading, fun to tinker with, etc :)
 
I love your username :) must have been picked quite a while ago.

I'd say keep the 5,1. Although there are lots of people that will say the 4,1 dual processor upgrade is easy, there seems to be just as many that spend several frustrating days trying to get the heat-sinks right.

Unless you are using software that is highly dependent on having piles of cores, upgrading your single core to a 5690 is going to give you lots of speed, especially if you add a PCIe hard drive, more memory, and an upgraded video card.
 
#2....Lidless Cpu's can be purchased to avoid all the stress of the 2009 cpu upgrade. Thats the only bugaboo of the 2009 but besides that your golden..Those single cpu mac pros are plummeting in price by the day.
 
I was able to snag a good deal on two MPs
1. 2010 single 2.8 quad core
2. 2009 dual 2.66 quad core

I got MP #1 to do some DIY tinkering/upgrading. I was about to purchase a six core westmere CPU when I lucked into #2.

Can't keep both. Which one should I keep? (I want to use the computer for personal photo and video editing for the next few years). Opinions welcome regarding future proof, ease of upgrading, fun to tinker with, etc :)

I used this guide to upgrade my two 2009 macs to 12 core x5670's (with lids). Using washers made it easy to do.

http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,852.660.html#msg24313

This is also a good one with lots of pictures.

https://web.archive.org/web/2013100.../Photography/2013/07/08/mac-pro-2009-part-tbd
 
I upgraded a 2009 quad core 2.26 x2 last week to a dual x5675 six core 3.07. I couldn't source lidless CPUs which may or may not make things easier. Those processors are finicky and getting the heatsinks right is mostly an art without specific tools (like a torque meter) to guide you.

But now I have a very fast computer that wasn't all that expensive.

2010 can take a higher wattage/clock speed CPU like the x5690 which may give better performance in video editing and almost certainly in photo editing. But you do get 2 (4?) fewer ram slots with the single.

The dual CPUs really shine when all the cores can be used, and that's more on the special effects/rendering side of things.

The 2010 will be painless to upgrade and quite fast. The 2009 may be tricky but very fast in certain applications.

</rambling>
 
2010 can take a higher wattage/clock speed CPU like the x5690 which may give better performance in video editing and almost certainly in photo editing. But you do get 2 (4?) fewer ram slots with the single.
Is this correct? I thought that the only difference between a 2009 & 2010 was basically the firmware. I have certainly seen 2009 4,1 for sale upgraded to 5,1 with dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs.
 
Is this correct? I thought that the only difference between a 2009 & 2010 was basically the firmware. I have certainly seen 2009 4,1 for sale upgraded to 5,1 with dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs.

I think he meant upgrading the single cpu 5,1 to a single w3690/x5690 and still stay within the thermal limits of Apple's design. Having dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs will cause overheating unless you manually rev up the fans. That's because Apple never released 2x150w CPUs on the MP.
 
I think he meant upgrading the single cpu 5,1 to a single w3690/x5690 and still stay within the thermal limits of Apple's design. Having dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs will cause overheating unless you manually rev up the fans. That's because Apple never released 2x150w CPUs on the MP.

I have two 130W 5680 (5690 is also 130W) inside my MacPro and I dont need to manually regulate the Fans.

1. Fans are regulated by CPU temp. If the CPU is gettig hot, the Fans spin higher.

2. Throttling and emergency shut down prevent from overheating.

The core max temp is 101°C, and the CPU is holding this temp under ultra heavy load.
 
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Great stuff all. Really appreciate the insight!

Is the 2009 significantly harder to do a CPU upgrade? I do like to tinker somewhat, so attempting a CPU swap is something I'm willing to do because I was under the impression that it's relatively simple for either machine. If the 2010 is significantly easier, I would probably go that route.

BTW, if I upgrade the 4,1 do I have to swap out both CPUs or could I do it in a progression (i.e., buy one CPU upgrade and later purchase a second CPU upgrage).

BTW, I need to sell one of them. Which one would garner the most $$ as is? The money would fund my upgrading :)
 
Great stuff all. Really appreciate the insight!

Is the 2009 significantly harder to do a CPU upgrade? I do like to tinker somewhat, so attempting a CPU swap is something I'm willing to do because I was under the impression that it's relatively simple for either machine. If the 2010 is significantly easier, I would probably go that route.

BTW, if I upgrade the 4,1 do I have to swap out both CPUs or could I do it in a progression (i.e., buy one CPU upgrade and later purchase a second CPU upgrage).

BTW, I need to sell one of them. Which one would garner the most $$ as is? The money would fund my upgrading :)

Like what others have suggested, keep the dual processor 2009 Mac Pro. There are De-lidded CPUs for sale that gives you better chances which can make your upgrade easier.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-MacPro...U-039-s-/171791655055?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Pro-200...746?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae345bad2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Pro-200...ade-Kit-/331552509022?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Good luck :)
 
Is this correct? I thought that the only difference between a 2009 & 2010 was basically the firmware. I have certainly seen 2009 4,1 for sale upgraded to 5,1 with dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs.

I think he meant upgrading the single cpu 5,1 to a single w3690/x5690 and still stay within the thermal limits of Apple's design. Having dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs will cause overheating unless you manually rev up the fans. That's because Apple never released 2x150w CPUs on the MP.

That is what I intended to convey. It's probably fine, I have read enough accounts of people saying it works, but the extra 70w strain on the PSU and heat wasn't going to work for me because I dropped 2 150w gtx 970 cards in mine.
 
Is the 2009 significantly harder to do a CPU upgrade? I do like to tinker somewhat, so attempting a CPU swap is something I'm willing to do because I was under the impression that it's relatively simple for either machine. If the 2010 is significantly easier, I would probably go that route.

2010 is pop off the heatsink, undo the lever that holds the CPU in place, drop in the new CPU, redo the lever, add the heatsink.

2009 is pop off heatsink, remove the CPU held down by nothing at this point, put in new CPU, tighten the heat sink until think its right, check if it boots, if not adjust the tension, check if all the ram is detected, if not adjust the tension, check that both processors are detected, if not adjust the tension. And the whole time be sure not to crush the cpu. Oh you'll need a thermal pad so the voltage regulators are still cooled.

It's not horrible but finicky and lots of little things to consider.

BTW, if I upgrade the 4,1 do I have to swap out both CPUs or could I do it in a progression (i.e., buy one CPU upgrade and later purchase a second CPU upgrage).

The system should boot with the main CPU upgraded and the secondary leff alone, but I don't think the old CPU will be detected/used nor ram slots 5-8.
 
Everyone has already posted some good replies, and I definitely used netkas' site as a resource when I upgraded my dual processor 4,1. However after tons of reading I decided that pindelski's guide made more logical sense to me. I followed it and my upgrade to dual x5677s was slick. It appears that the author has removed the original guide, but as our savvy macrumors community members pointed out in another thread it is still available here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20131026053641/http://pindelski.org/Photography/2013/07/08/mac-pro-2009-part-tbd/

Good luck OP
 
2010 is pop off the heatsink, undo the lever that holds the CPU in place, drop in the new CPU, redo the lever, add the heatsink.

2009 is pop off heatsink, remove the CPU held down by nothing at this point, put in new CPU, tighten the heat sink until think its right, check if it boots, if not adjust the tension, check if all the ram is detected, if not adjust the tension, check that both processors are detected, if not adjust the tension. And the whole time be sure not to crush the cpu. Oh you'll need a thermal pad so the voltage regulators are still cooled.

It's not horrible but finicky and lots of little things to consider.



The system should boot with the main CPU upgraded and the secondary leff alone, but I don't think the old CPU will be detected/used nor ram slots 5-8.

Bad advice.
 
Everyone has already posted some good replies, and I definitely used netkas' site as a resource when I upgraded my dual processor 4,1. However after tons of reading I decided that pindelski's guide made more logical sense to me. I followed it and my upgrade to dual x5677s was slick. It appears that the author has removed the original guide, but as our savvy macrumors community members pointed out in another thread it is still available here:

https://web.archive.org/web/2013102...Photography/2013/07/08/mac-pro-2009-part-tbd/

Good luck OP

Yeah i posted the same thing earlier in the thread lol. When I did the upgrade I read through both guys. I liked the Pindelski guide because of the photos and good information but I needed up doing the other method. Their isn't a right or wrong method, but I like the washer method best since it basically lifts the heat sinks up enough to make the new chips install like they don't have lids. No matter which method you choose its best to read multiple guides for a good reference of information.



2010 is pop off the heatsink, undo the lever that holds the CPU in place, drop in the new CPU, redo the lever, add the heatsink.

2009 is pop off heatsink, remove the CPU held down by nothing at this point, put in new CPU, tighten the heat sink until think its right, check if it boots, if not adjust the tension, check if all the ram is detected, if not adjust the tension, check that both processors are detected, if not adjust the tension. And the whole time be sure not to crush the cpu. Oh you'll need a thermal pad so the voltage regulators are still cooled.

It's not horrible but finicky and lots of little things to consider.

Seriously do not take this guys advice. If you upgrade your mac pro doing what he outlined you will destroy it.
 
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Since most of the information is listed on another site here make sure that you read and re-read the post, but ill post the main parts here.

When choosing a cpu you can choose any of these for your upgrade (I'm not sure if there are more) X5650, X5660, X5670, X5680, or X5690. You can get these chips off ebay, some are really cheap. If you follow this guy buy chips that are Lidded.

No matter what guide you follow, remember THESE rules if you have a dual-cpu Mac Pro 2009 (they came without IHS heatsinks on the CPUs):

* You MUST flash to firmware 5.1 BEFORE you switch to newer CPUs, or the system will be unbootable.
* You MUST raise the heatsinks by 2.2-2.5mm via washers so that you avoid crushing the CPU and destroying your motherboard.
* You MUST NOT overtighten the screws, even when using washers! Hand-tighten them very gently and don't be afraid to leave a small gap between the heatsink and the washers; even the stock machine has a small gap between the heatsink and the pegs/posts. Your washers are just your emergency-rescue against idiocy! What matters is that you tighten with the CPU LID as your tightness reference, NOT the washers! Just a couple of turns will hold the heatsinks in place. You don't want to crush the CPU!
* You MUST cut out room for the fan connectors, because if they don't connect your Case fans will run at 100% speed to compensate for what it thinks is a dead CPU-fan.
* You MUST add extra-thick thermal strips for the voltage regulators, so that the heat they generate transfers to the heatsink.
* Do NOT attempt to remove the IHS (integrated heat spreader) "lid" on your Xeon CPUs. They are workstation CPUs with SOLDERED lids (directly onto the cores) that CANNOT be removed using common de-lidding techniques and you'll kill your processor. Even professional electrical engineers with heatbeds have destroyed these CPUs while attempting to remove the lids. Also note that unlike consumer-CPUs, the soldered server-level Xeon CPUs do not benefit temperature-wise from de-lidding because the heat-contact is already practically perfect thanks to the tight soldering. So keep the lids on and follow the above 5 rules!
* If you install faster RAM, you MUST perform a PRAM reset to re-setup the system to enable the faster speeds. You don't need to do this step if you aren't changing RAM.

Fail to do these things and you WILL **** things up. Don't be an idiot.


Here are the parts required to upgrade a 2009 Mac Pro 4,1's CPUs:

A firmware upgrade to Mac Pro version 5,1, to add support for the new CPUs. Must be done BEFORE swapping the CPUs. Do it carefully and don't interrupt the flashing process. See the first post in this thread for the download (you must be registered to see the link).
1-2x New CPUs (of course).
1x Silicon Thermal Pad, of 3-3.2mm thickness for extension or 5mm for total replacement. Get 10x10 cm pads so that you have room to cut out the two strips you need (each strip you need is ~10cm long but not very wide). Many people that do this mod get 2mm pads but that's WAY too THIN and will leave airgaps, especially after compression, so DON'T use that or you won't sufficiently cool your voltage regulators meaning your system might die within a few years of use! Get 3-3.2mm pads, and just lay the 3mm thick pads on the voltage regulator chips, and they'll bridge the gap to the existing pink 2mm pads on the heatsinks. Some people try to find 5mm pads for a total replacement, but that's nearly impossible since it's a very uncommon thickness, and it's also more difficult since it requires gluing the new pads to the heatsink. The good news is that stacking a 3mm pad on top of the voltage regulators works perfectly and provides practically identical thermal transfer thanks to them being packed tightly together. I chose a 3.2mm pad of real silicon, which compresses itself to the perfect size and bridges the gap tightly. It's better to get a thicker pad than a too thin one which leaves airgaps and provides insufficient cooling! If you are patient and ok with waiting for 1-4 weeks, I recommend this chinese seller with free shipping: 3mm silicone pad. Whatever you do, be sure that you buy REAL silicon pads to transfer heat the best. You don't wanna fry the voltage regulators and need a $400 repair in your expensive machine, just to save a few dollars on cheap, ****** non-silicon thermal pads! People have killed their machines after 1-2 years of use with thin/cheap pads; so again, my recommendation is a ~3mm thick REAL silicon thermal pad, stacked on top of the voltage regulators, so that it compresses nicely and perfectly bridges the gap.
1x 3mm Hex/Allen wrench, OR a Torx T15 screwdriver/wrench if you can't find a Hex wrench, either one of them works and have the exact same dimensions. It needs to have a thin shaft of at least 7.5cm length so that it fits all the way down. And use a screwdriver that's not thicker than 5mm along the shaft, meaning that those interchangeable "bit-sets" are way too wide to fit into the heatsink holes.
1x Thermal paste for the CPUs. Most people have no imagination and just go with "Arctic Silver 5", but there's lots of equivalent brands on the market: http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Thermal-Paste-Roundup-172/ I picked the Gelid GC-Extreme. Choose whichever one is in stock!
16x 1.1mm-thick M4 washers (it simply has to fit on top of the M4 bolt which is 4.1mm inner diameter so anything with ~4.4mm inner diameter is good), and most importantly 1.1mm thickness. You need two for each cooler post, 4 posts per CPU; and you must be completely sure that they add ~2.2mm height total (absolutely not any higher than 2.5) to completely protect the CPU during tightening! In my case, I could actually only get 0.8mm washers so I ordered 24 instead and put 3 on each pad for a total height of ~2.4mm which is extremely close to the exact height added by the CPU's IHS (heatspreaders/lids). Another guy did 2.5mm with no problem, but don't go higher! Use calipers to measure that you have reached the intended lift level. See below quote for the exact size to aim for:

That is the guide i followed to install my two x5650's into my mac pro and my x5670's into my other mac pro.

These are the items i bought from amazon.

1) Brass Flat Washer, Plain Finish, DIN 125, Metric, M4 Screw Size, 4.3 mm ID, 9 mm OD, 0.8 mm Thick (Pack of 100)

2) 3mm Thick Silicone Thermal Pad 8" x 8" for Laptop IC Chipset Chip CPU

3) Eklind 3mm X 9"long Hex Key Eklind Cush.grip T-handle

4) Arctic Silver 5 12G Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Grease CPU Heat Sink Compound (note, you don't need big of arctic silver, i just like to have extra for all my computers)

When i did my install i used 3 washers on each leg of the heat sync for a total thickness of 2.4mm and matched that with a 3mm Silicone Thermal Pad. Then i hand tightened all the bolts as far as they would go by hand without the use of force. Then i tightening down each bolt by 1/4 a turn in the order that the service manual suggested. Start with just Processor A. If it boots then move onto processor B. Processor A booted with just 1/4th a turn on one of my mac pro's but on the other it booted with 1/4 + 1/8th a turn on each screw. Processor B was similar.

I'd suggest starting out at 1/4 a turn for each bolt and increasing it by 1/8th then test since all the boards are a little different.

The upgrade looks harder than it truly is. With all the right parts, and with all this advice you'll do just fine. Good luck with what ever decision you make.

This is the service manual. Start at page 155 to see how apple changes the processor. Page 160 lists the order to tighten the heat syncs.
 
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Bad advice.

classic post with nothing constructive.

In what way is it bad? And it was not a detailed guide, but an overview of how the process goes.

Everyone who thinks the washers are some sort of godsend are crazy.



Seriously do not take this guys advice. If you upgrade your mac pro doing what he outlined you will destroy it.

Yeah I love running simulations on my destroyed pro. It was intended to compare the complexity of the two.
 
^^^^Your advice was FOS. Your comparisons were inept to say the least and you advice was just plain WRONG!!!!!! Better to stay quiet when you don't know what you are talking about!

Lou
 
Hey, what did I say?
 

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FWIW, I simply took FL's comment as saying that the 2009 upgrade is somewhat more difficult and potentially time consuming than the 2010 upgrade. Given what's I'd be attempting (plus all the wealth of guides and advice that is out there), it would be silly to use his comments as my instructions for the upgrade (which I don't think he intended at all)

BTW, my 2009 seems snappier than the 2010, even without an SSD (yet!). Decided I'll sell the 2010.

2010 is pop off the heatsink, undo the lever that holds the CPU in place, drop in the new CPU, redo the lever, add the heatsink.

2009 is pop off heatsink, remove the CPU held down by nothing at this point, put in new CPU, tighten the heat sink until think its right, check if it boots, if not adjust the tension, check if all the ram is detected, if not adjust the tension, check that both processors are detected, if not adjust the tension. And the whole time be sure not to crush the cpu. Oh you'll need a thermal pad so the voltage regulators are still cooled.

It's not horrible but finicky and lots of little things to consider.



The system should boot with the main CPU upgraded and the secondary leff alone, but I don't think the old CPU will be detected/used nor ram slots 5-8.
 
FWIW, I simply took FL's comment as saying that the 2009 upgrade is somewhat more difficult and potentially time consuming than the 2010 upgrade. Given what's I'd be attempting (plus all the wealth of guides and advice that is out there), it would be silly to use his comments as my instructions for the upgrade (which I don't think he intended at all)

BTW, my 2009 seems snappier than the 2010, even without an SSD (yet!). Decided I'll sell the 2010.

Since you'll be doing some video editing, the dual processor cMac Pro will benefit you more. With de-lidded cpus, you can upgrade the dual processors accordingly based on the manual provided by Buster84.
 
I actually decided to keep the 2010 Mac Pro. If anyone is interested, I did list a feeler for my 2009 Mac Pro in the marketplace. Basically, I ran into a little bit of financial hardship and figured that the dual processor 2009 would fetch a higher price than the single processor 2010, although I would agree with most of you that it's the better machine.
 
I think he meant upgrading the single cpu 5,1 to a single w3690/x5690 and still stay within the thermal limits of Apple's design. Having dual 6-core 3.46GHz CPUs will cause overheating unless you manually rev up the fans. That's because Apple never released 2x150w CPUs on the MP.

I disagree. The W3690/X5690 have a TDP of 130 Watt: http://ark.intel.com/de/products/52...r-W3690-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

On my cMP with W3690 the temps under full load (for example with Handbrake) do not exceed 85° Celsius.
 
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