Which Win laptop has the best trackpad and keyboard?

[navaira]

As the topic says... I am, sadly, looking at replacement for the clusterduck that MBP2018 is. I'm mostly writing. I'm going to move my heavy lifting except light Photoshop work to the Hackintosh (runs Mojave beautifully to my surprise).

I am looking for an ultrabook with at least three USB-Cs (I now converted everything I own to USB-C in order for my MBP to be my only machine, thanks Apple), good screen (1920x1080 strikes me as not super amazing, but I see a lot of 13.3" laptops now have this resolution – any owners?), trackpad at least 80% as good as Apple's (I know I won't get anything THAT great), sadly). Keyboard that will withstand eight hours of typing a day for longer than two weeks without breaking and not cause my fingers to shrivel and fall off. While speed is not super important in this case, I would quite like to futureproof it with 16 GB RAM or find a model that I can later upgrade.

Perfection would be a laptop I can hackintosh, which is why I am looking at Spectre x360 which needs only wifi card to be replaced and HP's website has a detailed guide on how to do it. But if I can't Hack it... sigh. I'll try to live with Widows as much as I hate the goddamn thing. If I have to choose between Widows and being able to use the computer without replacing it every few weeks, Widows it will be.

I love the looks of Yoga S730 but it's not available yet, and the release date is sort of fuzzily mentioned in one or two articles as "probably November". Dell 9360 is easier to Hackintosh than 9370, but I prefer the looks if 9370 – even though the nostril camera isn't the best solution I've seen in my life. Battery life isn't super important, I mostly use the laptop connected to power, but I'd prefer six hours to, say, three. I don't do gaming, Intel 620 is sufficient. It really boils down to keyboard, trackpad, and – yes – thinness and low weight.

What do y'all think? Thanks for any responses!

 

[Roadstar]

Well, it falls short regarding the USB-C ports (just one there), but for keyboard and trackpad you should at least check out the Surface Book 2. I got the earlier Surface Book with the Performance Base from a nice discount and especially the keyboard and the trackpad are great (it gets really close to the Apple one and the best I’ve seen on Windows so far). On top of that the screen provides plenty of resolution, so you won’t have to settle for FullHD.

 

[StellarVixen]

MacBook Pro with Windows on it.

 

[Roadstar]

MacBook Pro with Windows on it.

Did you read the original post at all?

Edit: Past the headline, that is.

 

[c0ppo]

I'm mostly writing.

In that case, go for any thinkpad. But I would advise going for thinkpad X1 Carbon, 6th gen. In reply to the next quote I'm gonna explain why.

I am looking for an ultrabook with at least three USB-Cs (I now converted everything I own to USB-C in order for my MBP to be my only machine, thanks Apple), good screen (1920x1080 strikes me as not super amazing, but I see a lot of 13.3" laptops now have this resolution – any owners?), trackpad at least 80% as good as Apple's (I know I won't get anything THAT great), sadly). Keyboard that will withstand eight hours of typing a day for longer than two weeks without breaking and not cause my fingers to shrivel and fall off. While speed is not super important in this case, I would quite like to futureproof it with 16 GB RAM or find a model that I can later upgrade.

X1 Carbon doesn't have 3x USB-C. But it does have 2x USB-C (both are TB3 ports) + 2x USB-A, HDMI and a mini sd card/SIM card.

Trackpad is really decent, I would say it's about 80% of MBP trackpad at least. And then there is the choice of trackpoint. At first you won't like it, but give it a try for 2-3 days. It's as precise as a mouse!

Now where this little thing shines is it's screen. At 14" and 2560x1440 HDR screen is a bliss. Better then any screen I have used. Blacks are black, contrast on this thing is amazing!

And since you need it for writing, nothing beats thinkpad keyboard. Nothing! This is by far the best laptop keyboard out there.

Now, everyone praises SB2 trackpad. Is it better then thinkpads? Don't really know, haven't tried it out. Even the keyboard on SB2 is really good, at least users say so. But I highly doubt it's even near this keyboard.

Personally, I would love to have 3:2 screen on thinkpads, but that isn't going to happen. But thinkpads have one great advantage to SB2, you can install Linux easily, and it's supported and easy to do.

So if you really dislike windows (like I do), install Manjaro for example. You can even make it look and behave as OSX, and keyboard shortcuts are almost identical.

If you have any questions, ask and I will try to help you. I know that after using this keyboard, any other laptop is out of the question for me, especially MBP. That thing has the worst keyboard I have ever typed on, so I have no plans on going back and trying to use it again.
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MacBook Pro with Windows on it.

 

[maflynn]

I don't know about hackintosh compatibility but Razer has a really nice keyboard, and trackpad. Dell has a nice keyboard, but I cannot comment on the trackpad. The issue with trackpads is that PC makers cannot seem to make a decent trackpad. Its not rocket surgery, yet so few machines have a top notch trackpad. Lenovo reportedly has a great keyboard as well.

Another option is it not worry about running macOS on it natively but rather run macOS as a VM, that may open up other hardware options.

 

[navaira]

VM will be dead slow though, right?

I looked at the Carbon X1 specs and it looks rather awesome! I just...can't stand that nipple, but if it solves my keyboard problems I will live with it. I can't use Linux, because Scrivener is Win/Mac only, unfortunately. But if nothing else is possible I will use a VM for literally two Mac-only programs I have.

The Surface Book...ugh. I just think they're ugly AF. But again, I have a gorgeous laptop I'm typing on right now, except since yesterday I had to add another key to Unshaky config...

Thanks @c0ppo

 

[StellarVixen]

VM will be dead slow though, right?

I looked at the Carbon X1 specs and it looks rather awesome! I just...can't stand that nipple, but if it solves my keyboard problems I will live with it. I can't use Linux, because Scrivener is Win/Mac only, unfortunately. But if nothing else is possible I will use a VM for literally two Mac-only programs I have.

The Surface Book...ugh. I just think they're ugly AF. But again, I have a gorgeous laptop I'm typing on right now, except since yesterday I had to add another key to Unshaky config...

Thanks @c0ppo

OK, jokes aside, that hinge on SurfaceBook would drive me crazy, it is ugly af to look at. Especially when laptop is closed.

Performance of the VM will be as good as how much resources you dump into it. VM is gonna perform much better on $1000 gaming PC than on $500 laptop, for example.

Personally, I advise against using OS on VM as daily driver. I use VirtualBox on daily basis for cross platform testing, and nothing much else than that.

I entertained idea to scam scammers via VM Windows (got inspiration on YouTube), but time doesn't allow me that.

 

[navaira]

X1 Carbon does not seem to be a perfect replacement...

https://mensfeld.pl/2018/07/lenovo-...w-sad-story-of-a-potentially-great-ultrabook/

Don’t buy it. If you cherish your time and money and you think about a laptop as a work tool, go with something else. There are many hardware problems with this computer and, if by any chance, you decide to open a warranty claim, Lenovo will make it really hard for you.

(many problems listed when you click the link)

Honestly, it's like I'm waving money shouting "can someone please take it" and every company is like "dddd nope".

 

[StellarVixen]

X1 Carbon does not seem to be a perfect replacement...

https://mensfeld.pl/2018/07/lenovo-...w-sad-story-of-a-potentially-great-ultrabook/



(many problems listed when you click the link)

Honestly, it's like I'm waving money shouting "can someone please take it" and every company is like "dddd nope".

Judging by that review, it is best to stay away miles from that laptop. I hope that reviewer is overrating the issues or even worse, lying. No premium product shall be that bad.

Imagine if Apple fu***d up their MBP like this, and had customer service this bad...

yikes...I can only imagine.
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Honestly, it's like I'm waving money shouting "can someone please take it" and every company is like "dddd nope".

Exactly how it is with me and all of the smartphones out there.

I would like to try the alternative, but no one want to build their own OS, and I can't stand Android (wrap it up however you want, call it TouchWiz, EmotionUI, Sense, whatever you want, it is STILL ANDROID!!!)

Sony, Samsung, LG, Huawei, and others...when you build your own OS and ditch that evil THEN I will consider you.

 

[SDColorado]

There are plenty of guides out there for X1C Hackintosh conversions. I am guessing (but don’t know for certain) that the same guides would apply to the X1 Extreme.

Microsoft and Lenovo both use Microsoft glass trackpads, which while not an iPhone size Taptic, are actually pretty good. The keyboard on the Lenovo’s are buttery smooth and feel luxurious compared to the clickey Mac butterfly keyboards.

Microsoft keyboards are also pretty good, but if I could build a laptop with the Mac trackpad and Lenovo keyboard, it would be perfect

 

[navaira]

Microsoft keyboards are also pretty good, but if I could build a laptop with the Mac trackpad and Lenovo keyboard, it would be perfect

I would have been all over the Matebook X Pro if it was hackintoshable (which it isn't). Right now I'm leaning towards x360 Spectre also because I found out the only way can (oh hello another non-registering key...) get my hands on 6th gen Carbon is by buying it straight from Lenovo, who take FOUR WEEKS to deliver any config, even the most basic ones! But I think I will replace the MBP again for my fourth one, because I'm hoping Yoga S730 will be available by then... Return window is 30 days. Perhaps the store will get 6th gen Carbons by then as well by some miracle.

*sigh* I really think those keyboards are Tim Cook's way to sneakily phase out macOS by proving people don't buy Macs anymore.

 

[SDColorado]

I would have been all over the Matebook X Pro if it was hackintoshable (which it isn't). Right now I'm leaning towards x360 Spectre also because I found out the only way can (oh hello another non-registering key...) get my hands on 6th gen Carbon is by buying it straight from Lenovo, who take FOUR WEEKS to deliver any config, even the most basic ones! But I think I will replace the MBP again for my fourth one, because I'm hoping Yoga S730 will be available by then... Return window is 30 days. Perhaps the store will get 6th gen Carbons by then as well by some miracle.

*sigh* I really think those keyboards are Tim Cook's way to sneakily phase out macOS by proving people don't buy Macs anymore.

I am not sure where you live, can’t see it in Tapatalk, but from my experience with Lenovo their ship dates seem to generally be a case of under promise and over deliver. The ones that show as “available,” if they are assembled in the North Carolina plant, will usually arrive in Colorado in a few days. Some of the Carbon configurations they have at Costco.

I know keyboards are subjective and there is a keyboard for every person and for every person a keyboard, but man... I hate the butterfly keyboards. Even the 3rd gen I feel has a cheap, hard, clicky feel to it that’s just unpleasant to use. It isn’t a matter of adaptability, I have adapted to stranger things. It’s just a simple matter of I hate them hahaha

 

[navaira]

Amsterdam, Netherlands. They are all listed as 4 weeks, and for some reason, no reseller has the 6th gen (all have the 5th though).

I actually love the feel of the butterfly keyboard, that's possibly the most frustrating part! It's very easy to type on, I like that it's quieter now, I like the layout... I even found a way to make the Touch Bar useful with my BetterTouchTool setup. I now far prefer it to having function keys.

I have a feeling similar to the Dead Mouse Charging. I read about how they spent months to get just the right sound when the user is moving it, but then stuck the charging port on the bottom in the most ridiculous way possible. I mean, it works, but it doesn't exactly look good. With the keyboard, I have a feeling they spent months making them quieter, then didn't bother actually testing them much...

 

[Roadstar]

And since you need it for writing, nothing beats thinkpad keyboard. Nothing! This is by far the best laptop keyboard out there.

Now, everyone praises SB2 trackpad. Is it better then thinkpads? Don't really know, haven't tried it out. Even the keyboard on SB2 is really good, at least users say so. But I highly doubt it's even near this keyboard.

Well I have two different ThinkPads for work (P50 and a T460s) as well the refreshed first generation Surface Book with Performance Base and for my taste the trackpad on the Surface Book is better, but the ThinkPads even the score with having a trackpoint as well.

Keyboard-wise it’s also much closer than I expected. ThinkPad was the baseline, but the Surface Book is much better than I expected. They’re totally in the same league and it’s hard for me to pick either one as a clear winner.

 

[SDColorado]

If you actually do love it, that would be frustrating. I have a feeling that it is Apple's way to transition into the Taptic keyboard. Get us used to a hard clicky keyboard and then you won't notice so much when all of a sudden the keys don't really depress at all.

Better Touch Tool definitely makes the Touch Bar more useful than stock, but still largely a gimmick to perhaps also get people used to what I again suspect will be the transition to a Taptic keyboard in the future.

Sometimes I think Apple gets a little too hung up on form over function. They design these beautiful devices such as some of their mice. But they aren't comfortable in the hand, difficult to charge, etc. I don't think they do nearly as much study on usability as they do on design.

One of the cooler mice (imho) and actually has a decent feel to it in the palm when using it is the Microsoft Surface Arc Mouse. I love how it folds flat for travel but has a nice arc when in use.

But mice are like keyboards. For every person who loved one, there are probably a dozen who will hate it

 

[zhenya]

Thinkpad X1 is probably your best bet. Best keyboard available on a laptop, and the recent trackpads are truly excellent. I go between a 5th generation X1 Carbon and a Macbook every day and the Carbon's trackpad is 98% as good as the Macbooks now. I work 100% on trackpads even for extensive design work. If you really want the Yoga design I would go for the X1 Yoga.

Realize however that the main limitation is going to be Windows. It's still really finicky compared to OS X in many ways. In fact most of the difference between trackpads now comes down to the fact that you get different response from it in different programs. A lot of Windows is like this - inconsistent.

After having owned 3 Surface devices I would not touch another. Their build quality and QA is awful (2 of the 3 died with permanently dead batteries after less than 18 months and MS wanted over $500 to repair) and the service is even worse (if you can even get hold of someone who has the power to help you).

 

[c0ppo]

X1 Carbon does not seem to be a perfect replacement...

https://mensfeld.pl/2018/07/lenovo-...w-sad-story-of-a-potentially-great-ultrabook/



(many problems listed when you click the link)

Honestly, it's like I'm waving money shouting "can someone please take it" and every company is like "dddd nope".

Yeah, I saw that review before I've purchased mine as well. And it gave me the chills. But after asking around and speaking with owners, I went ahead and purchased one. Let me quote that review problems:

• Not properly closing lid (a lot of space on one of the sides);

If anyone wants, I can take pictures of mine X1C. No problems with lid at all.

• Overheating when connected to a docking station;
• Overheating without a docking station;

I have mine connected to Lenovo graphic tb3 dock. No overheating at all, not even when using Unity3D. But while gaming laptop does get warm, but NOT hot, and not overheating.

• High pitch noise when using USB headphones and a docking station;
• Poor speakers quality and speaker cracking noise;

For the first remark, again, no problems with my unit.
For the second one, speakers are low quality, that is for sure, especially when compared to MBP speakers. But no cracking noise is coming from the laptop.

• Non existing on-site warranty;
• Really bad certified repair partners (at least in Poland);

Poland? Well, this is true in Croatia as well. But same goes for Dell, HP, Acer, etc. So pick your poison.

• A lot of configuration and tuning to make it work with Linux;
• Screen scaling problems on Linux;

Linux is such a broad term. Linux itself isn't even an OS, and this guy obviously doesn't know his stuff. Almost 99% of new laptops have Linux issues, most of manufacturers don't even care. Lenovo does, and as soon as they release a laptop, they put out updates and fixes to make Linux work. Right now X1C support for Linux is GREAT! Want to install Manjaro, Ubuntu, Mint, Antergos? Well, just click next/next/next. Done. And everything except FP sensor works out of the box, without additional messing around!

Screen scaling? Well, this guy is a joke. How is screen scaling in 'Linux' (he naver named distro he's running) a x1c problem? Every desktop environment in Linux manages scaling differently. Gnome (ubuntu) has 1x or 2x or 3x scaling. And that works ok, but for example, Manjaro Deepin has fractional scalling, which works way better.

So this guy obviously doesn't use Linux at all. Or if he does, he doesn't know how to use it at all.

• Backspace key missing stroke;

I have to admit that I don't know what he is thinking about at all.


To put things into short perspective. His review scared me. But his remarks on Linux made me doubt him completely. So I asked around, and purchased one. Installing Linux as simpler then installing Windows. No additional hassle to get anything to work, just install and use. Of course, depends on the distro you're using, but most of popular ones work out of the box.

And he even made me laugh when he was talking about scaling... It's quite obvious he really doesn't know what he's talking about at all. And that's the moment I went for it and purchased one. I loved P series, never had any issue with it, so wanted to stay with Thinkpads, primarly because of the keyboard.

Still don't regret my decision.

 

[navaira]

Realize however that the main limitation is going to be Windows. It's still really finicky compared to OS X in many ways.

That's exactly why I still haven't given up on the MBP I had a "pleasure" of using Win10. If I never see it again it will still be too soon. But I need a working keyboard...

Maybe I should get an Air while they're still available. Ewww at the screen, but at least you can eat a sandwich in the same house and not worry about the keys getting stuck...

 

[SDColorado]

I have say I really don’t get all the Windows 10 hate. I thought I would hate it after leaving the Windows world back when XP was transitioning to Vista, but I don’t.

Sometimes I find MacOS maddening in how Apple forces certain things the way they want it to be and doesn’t really offer any means to customize the way you want it to be.

I guess I am an equal opportunity lover/hater of each for different reasons. But one of the hardest parts for me in branching back to Windows was coming to the realization (at least for me) that MacOS ain’t all that great and Windows 10 ain’t all that bad hahaha

That and I have to run some Windows software either in a VM/Bootcamp/Windows 10. So I had to get used to it in a hurry

 

[zhenya]

I use both daily. I was a Windows Sys Admin for 10 years. Overall I'm fine with Windows 10 and there are some things that are better about it than Mac OS. But the lack of attention to detail and lack of consistency really bugs me. Even as an experienced admin I often end up spending a considerable amount of time working on my Windows 10 installation rather than it fading into the background as a tool to let me better do my current job. Mac OS fulfills that role better for me, but alas, we are a Windows development shop, so I work in Windows.

 

[c0ppo]

As others have said, Windows lacks consistency, and there is really no attention to details. This becomes obvious when you want to use small small apps to tweak the workflow. Mac OS is full of such apps, as is windows. But on mac os 90% of those are beautiful, simple and don't get in your way. In Windows it's opposite.

Registry is a complete mess, Windows Explorer as well. Updates are constant, and are quite annoying. And if you don't update often, sooner or later windows is gonna force you to do so. I had a situation where I started update in the evening, woke up and it still wasn't finished.

But my biggest windows fault (besides registry) has to be lack of keyboard shortcuts consistency. I'm a heavy keyboard user. 95% of the things I do, I do it with shortcuts. Once you learn your way around, it's easier then with mouse/touchpad, and it's way faster.

But in Windows different apps have different shortcuts for the same thing. Like for Properties/Preferences. Annoying. In MacOS and Linux, it's 99% the same shortcut for any app. And if it is not, well, you get to edit it and make it as you like it.

In Windows thats impossible natively. Sure, you could download Autohotkey and try to script your way around. But make sure that you know what you're doing. For example, I like my control key to be where the ALT key is, so it replicates CMD on mac. But simply replacing those keys doesn't work so easily, because then ALT+TAB is messed up. Editing app shortcuts like already mentioned Properties is impossible.

Windows is the only OS that doesn't support editing shortcuts. MS is too hung up on backwards compatibility, so much so that their own OS is now really backwards as well

I enjoy using Manjaro for example. Way better OS then Mac OS imho. But Manjaro as does entire Linux world lacks some really basic quality software, so I can't make it my main OS. Choice is purchasing yet another really expensive MBP and praying to Gods that my keyboard doesn't broke again, or use Linux + get along with Windows. I chose the latter this time, hopefully Apple will change their way, but my hopes aren't high, so I believe this is it for me and Apple

 

[SDColorado]

I use both daily. I was a Windows Sys Admin for 10 years. Overall I'm fine with Windows 10 and there are some things that are better about it than Mac OS. But the lack of attention to detail and lack of consistency really bugs me. Even as an experienced admin I often end up spending a considerable amount of time working on my Windows 10 installation rather than it fading into the background as a tool to let me better do my current job. Mac OS fulfills that role better for me, but alas, we are a Windows development shop, so I work in Windows.

Yeah, the consistency is absolutely where MacOS has Windows beat. Sometimes the Apple walled garden is frustrating, but it is definitely consistent. Usually for the better

 

[turbineseaplane]

I dream of a day where I can once again love the Apple hardware as much as I love the software of macOS.

I would be in complete heaven if I could run macOS natively on a thinkpad

 

[zen]

I'm going to be in the market for a Windows laptop soon, and I'm also a writer who needs a decent keyboard.

The recommendations for Thinkpads are interesting, but I'm surprised not many people have mentioned the Dell XPS range? I thought those were pretty much the go-to Windows laptops outside of the Surface Book?