...what? The fan kicks in less and the heat is less on the 2013 air compared to her 2012. If this was happening on her 2013 it has an issue, it's nothing to do with the new chips.
Who can't resist the Air?
- Thread starter PDFierro
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...what? The fan kicks in less and the heat is less on the 2013 air compared to her 2012. If this was happening on her 2013 it has an issue, it's nothing to do with the new chips.
falconeight
Guest
It happened on my 11 also and we had replaced one of her 2013's prior. Some people are ok with it she wasn't. I was ok with it I didn't like the screen.
Is this true? I've seen screenshots of a non-Retina writing app running on the rMBP, and the text looked horrible. While it doesn't technically look any worse on the rMBP, it just stands out more and that is why I'd be hesitant to run a program like that.
falconeight
Guest
Don't take my word for it. Go to any apple or best buy and check it out yourself. Open or do anything on both side by side.
1440x900 is plenty for a 13" screen.
Most PC laptops ship a lower 1366x768 on 15" display and nobody seems to mind.
But we're Mac users, we care. That being said, I believe that 1440x900 is very nice on a 13" screen. Who needs retina ?
I remember having a 14" CRT monitor with 800x600 resolution. In fact, the original iMac G3 had a 800x600 15" screen. Sure, you could crank it up to 1024x768 but at 75Hz, it was guaranteed to give you one hell of a headache after half an hour. Boy, are we spoiled today...
Back to the Macbook : why does the MBA 13" (non retina) have a 1440x900 display and the 13" MBP (also non retina) only 1280x800 ?
Most PC laptops ship a lower 1366x768 on 15" display and nobody seems to mind.
But we're Mac users, we care. That being said, I believe that 1440x900 is very nice on a 13" screen. Who needs retina ?
I remember having a 14" CRT monitor with 800x600 resolution. In fact, the original iMac G3 had a 800x600 15" screen. Sure, you could crank it up to 1024x768 but at 75Hz, it was guaranteed to give you one hell of a headache after half an hour. Boy, are we spoiled today...
Back to the Macbook : why does the MBA 13" (non retina) have a 1440x900 display and the 13" MBP (also non retina) only 1280x800 ?
Well I know what the screens look like side by side, I was referring more specifically to your comment on a non-Retina text app looking fine on a rMBP.
sonicrobby
macrumors 68030
I dont understand how a 13" MBA is more portable than a 13" rMBP @_@
They have the same footprint right? just one is tapered, one isnt?
You people talk like the non-air macbooks are bricks. ALL of them are relatively light compared to other laptops. None of the macbooks really have a portability problem, except maybe the 17" MBP...
PDFierro, I say chain yourself to a chair, and wait a few months till they announce the updated rMBP, then make your decision.
falconeight
Guest
Im using my rMBP pro right now and anything I look at or open is perfect.
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13 rMBP is has a smaller footprint. Its just not tapered at one end.
some of the retina owners in this thread are ridiculous. you try to justify your decision by brutally ruin everyone else's positive ideas about their macbook airs. cut them some slack.
the retina is awesome, has some known issues with displays.
the air is awesome, light and portable, obviously a generation behind with screen quality. saying its 'pixelated' or anything random like that is far beyond 'reasonable'.
both machines are awesome, that's for sure.
the retina is awesome, has some known issues with displays.
the air is awesome, light and portable, obviously a generation behind with screen quality. saying its 'pixelated' or anything random like that is far beyond 'reasonable'.
both machines are awesome, that's for sure.
thadoggfather
macrumors P6
I love my 2011 Air.
That retina screens is great, but the body of the Air is still totally unbeatable.
That retina screens is great, but the body of the Air is still totally unbeatable.
Booji
macrumors 6502a
Exactly - the Airs are ideal for a unique use cases for users that are truly mobile. I'd take the battery life and light weight over the retina screen any day. I think the 11" Air is the ultimate road warrior's machine.
However, as soon as Apple can build an 11" inch with retina screen that can get the same battery life and is as light as the current one, I'll be sure to get it, but for now the Airs perfectly fit a unique niche.
Same here I'm either going with the updated rMBP or the Sony Viao this fall. I've had a 2010 13" Air with Samsung screen for 3 years, not bad, but IPS or Retina is much better!
Stealth777
macrumors newbie
Totally different machines
I don't know about ridiculous but I'll offer my experiences with both this week. I am on my second 2013 haswell AIR and both of them have had -
1. Terrible Screen Flicker in Photoshop CS6, rendering it almost unusable
2. Volume fluctuations when streaming video
I also bought a refurb 13" 2.5 ghz rMBP a week ago and it has totally surprised me. I fully expected "laggy scrolling", "overheating" etc. but so far the machine is noticeably faster than the AIR in almost every respect. The retina opens finder windows much quicker, especially noticeable when opening shared folders on my network. It also loads web pages faster. In every aspect of working with the machine it's smoother and faster than the AIRS have been which has surprised me.
I thought that since the AIRS have I5000 graphics that are supposed to be 40% faster and the new quicker SSD's that I would expect them to pop open windows quicker etc. This is not the case. Regarding heat in the retina, the 13" one does not generate that much. It DOES get warmer than the Air which is amazing in that it's almost completely cool even when streaming videos for an hour. The retina is a bit warmer but not too much. Remember, the 13" retina has the cool air vents on the side as well as the back. The Air looks like it only vents at the back..where does it pull cool air in from?
Finally the retina has retina! It looks a lot better than the Air, but seems a bit more reflective (bad thing). It took my eyes a couple of days to get used to the retina. At first I actually found it more difficult to read text on because it seemed like my eyes couldn't focus on the screen properly or something. That seems to have gone away now. Having said that, I think the Air screen isn't that bad. It's certainly washed out in comparison, and it does look fuzzy and not as sharp as even my girlfriends 13" glossy plain old macbook pro, but it is a little higher res than her MBP and the screen is "good enough".
So, in my mind they are totally different machines. I'm having a tough time deciding which one to keep. I love the retina screen and the machine runs faster and smoother overall BUT -
1. The Air form factor is NICE. That tapered edge makes it much more comfortable to type on than the thicker edge of the rMBP. Believe it or not, this may be the thing that makes me keep the Air. Comfort in doing what you do on a computer (type and read) is a big deal. In the reading part however, the retina has the edge..
2. The battery life is REALLY REALLY nice to have. Although the rMBP is not bad, the battery life in the Air really is a game changer. I don't even think about battery life on the Air.
3. Dead Cool. The Air has never warmed up in normal use at all so far. And I mean literally sitting in your lap it feels like cool room temperature aluminum. It did get a little warmer when I was rendering some video in Final Cut Pro X (it was running for about 6 minutes at that point).
4. The half pound or so of lighter weight is nice to have
So, decisions decisions. Oh, I did find one issue with the rMBP. I went to that webpage that does the ghosting test and the screen DID retain a ghost image for about a minute. It was only noticeable on a grey background though. Doesn't even show up on white web pages etc. If that is something that would get worse, that would be a big negative for the retina, but the way it is now it seems like a small issue.
I don't know about ridiculous but I'll offer my experiences with both this week. I am on my second 2013 haswell AIR and both of them have had -
1. Terrible Screen Flicker in Photoshop CS6, rendering it almost unusable
2. Volume fluctuations when streaming video
I also bought a refurb 13" 2.5 ghz rMBP a week ago and it has totally surprised me. I fully expected "laggy scrolling", "overheating" etc. but so far the machine is noticeably faster than the AIR in almost every respect. The retina opens finder windows much quicker, especially noticeable when opening shared folders on my network. It also loads web pages faster. In every aspect of working with the machine it's smoother and faster than the AIRS have been which has surprised me.
I thought that since the AIRS have I5000 graphics that are supposed to be 40% faster and the new quicker SSD's that I would expect them to pop open windows quicker etc. This is not the case. Regarding heat in the retina, the 13" one does not generate that much. It DOES get warmer than the Air which is amazing in that it's almost completely cool even when streaming videos for an hour. The retina is a bit warmer but not too much. Remember, the 13" retina has the cool air vents on the side as well as the back. The Air looks like it only vents at the back..where does it pull cool air in from?
Finally the retina has retina! It looks a lot better than the Air, but seems a bit more reflective (bad thing). It took my eyes a couple of days to get used to the retina. At first I actually found it more difficult to read text on because it seemed like my eyes couldn't focus on the screen properly or something. That seems to have gone away now. Having said that, I think the Air screen isn't that bad. It's certainly washed out in comparison, and it does look fuzzy and not as sharp as even my girlfriends 13" glossy plain old macbook pro, but it is a little higher res than her MBP and the screen is "good enough".
So, in my mind they are totally different machines. I'm having a tough time deciding which one to keep. I love the retina screen and the machine runs faster and smoother overall BUT -
1. The Air form factor is NICE. That tapered edge makes it much more comfortable to type on than the thicker edge of the rMBP. Believe it or not, this may be the thing that makes me keep the Air. Comfort in doing what you do on a computer (type and read) is a big deal. In the reading part however, the retina has the edge..
2. The battery life is REALLY REALLY nice to have. Although the rMBP is not bad, the battery life in the Air really is a game changer. I don't even think about battery life on the Air.
3. Dead Cool. The Air has never warmed up in normal use at all so far. And I mean literally sitting in your lap it feels like cool room temperature aluminum. It did get a little warmer when I was rendering some video in Final Cut Pro X (it was running for about 6 minutes at that point).
4. The half pound or so of lighter weight is nice to have
So, decisions decisions. Oh, I did find one issue with the rMBP. I went to that webpage that does the ghosting test and the screen DID retain a ghost image for about a minute. It was only noticeable on a grey background though. Doesn't even show up on white web pages etc. If that is something that would get worse, that would be a big negative for the retina, but the way it is now it seems like a small issue.
falconeight
Guest
I don't know about ridiculous but I'll offer my experiences with both this week. I am on my second 2013 haswell AIR and both of them have had -
1. Terrible Screen Flicker in Photoshop CS6, rendering it almost unusable
2. Volume fluctuations when streaming video
I also bought a refurb 13" 2.5 ghz rMBP a week ago and it has totally surprised me. I fully expected "laggy scrolling", "overheating" etc. but so far the machine is noticeably faster than the AIR in almost every respect. The retina opens finder windows much quicker, especially noticeable when opening shared folders on my network. It also loads web pages faster. In every aspect of working with the machine it's smoother and faster than the AIRS have been which has surprised me.
I thought that since the AIRS have I5000 graphics that are supposed to be 40% faster and the new quicker SSD's that I would expect them to pop open windows quicker etc. This is not the case. Regarding heat in the retina, the 13" one does not generate that much. It DOES get warmer than the Air which is amazing in that it's almost completely cool even when streaming videos for an hour. The retina is a bit warmer but not too much. Remember, the 13" retina has the cool air vents on the side as well as the back. The Air looks like it only vents at the back..where does it pull cool air in from?
Finally the retina has retina! It looks a lot better than the Air, but seems a bit more reflective (bad thing). It took my eyes a couple of days to get used to the retina. At first I actually found it more difficult to read text on because it seemed like my eyes couldn't focus on the screen properly or something. That seems to have gone away now. Having said that, I think the Air screen isn't that bad. It's certainly washed out in comparison, and it does look fuzzy and not as sharp as even my girlfriends 13" glossy plain old macbook pro, but it is a little higher res than her MBP and the screen is "good enough".
So, in my mind they are totally different machines. I'm having a tough time deciding which one to keep. I love the retina screen and the machine runs faster and smoother overall BUT -
1. The Air form factor is NICE. That tapered edge makes it much more comfortable to type on than the thicker edge of the rMBP. Believe it or not, this may be the thing that makes me keep the Air. Comfort in doing what you do on a computer (type and read) is a big deal. In the reading part however, the retina has the edge..
2. The battery life is REALLY REALLY nice to have. Although the rMBP is not bad, the battery life in the Air really is a game changer. I don't even think about battery life on the Air.
3. Dead Cool. The Air has never warmed up in normal use at all so far. And I mean literally sitting in your lap it feels like cool room temperature aluminum. It did get a little warmer when I was rendering some video in Final Cut Pro X (it was running for about 6 minutes at that point).
4. The half pound or so of lighter weight is nice to have
So, decisions decisions. Oh, I did find one issue with the rMBP. I went to that webpage that does the ghosting test and the screen DID retain a ghost image for about a minute. It was only noticeable on a grey background though. Doesn't even show up on white web pages etc. If that is something that would get worse, that would be a big negative for the retina, but the way it is now it seems like a small issue.
Very honest assessment of both laptops. Good luck with your decision. I had a MBP, then 11 air, 13 rMBP, now I'm back to the 11 air. The only reason I'm on the air is because my wife wanted my retina and I wanted a iPad for apps so my budget only allowed me to have an air. Totally excited about the battery life but the screen is horrible. I only write papers for college courses and surf the internet so its ok. Best buy took 10% off so that really helped with the decision also.
Stealth777
macrumors newbie
Thank you. Funny, I also have a Mid 2012 11" Air here that work loaned to me. I love that machine. Perfect size to sit on the breakfast table while I eat, on plane trays etc. It's a little too small for me to do anything other than emails and typing/browsing on though. I use Photoshop, Mind Mapping Software and a few other types of applications that need a bit more screen real estate. I do notice that the Mid 2012 11" does get fairly warm though. The 2013 ones stay absolutely cool to the touch. Anyway, enjoy your MBA..and your wife is lucky to have someone that gives her the better PC..
MikeyMike01
macrumors 6502
I'm really thinking about selling my 15" Retina MBP and getting the new Air. The 12 hour battery life is what has me interested, mainly (I get about 3-6 hours currently).
I'm just wondering how I'd fare with a smaller, lower resolution screen.
I'm just wondering how I'd fare with a smaller, lower resolution screen.
To anybody familiar with software development:
Macbook Air = "stable" fork
Macbook Pro = "development" fork.
You'll feel like using something more advanced with the latter one, but there'll be problems you'll be dealing with, and since you're paying more money than with the "stable" one, anybody that cares for getting work done will be more happy with the Air.
Macbook Air = "stable" fork
Macbook Pro = "development" fork.
You'll feel like using something more advanced with the latter one, but there'll be problems you'll be dealing with, and since you're paying more money than with the "stable" one, anybody that cares for getting work done will be more happy with the Air.
MacAttackMark
macrumors member
Same boat, I really want to wait for the retina refresh, but we have no idea when it will be released, and I was hoping to get a new upgrade later this month before college. I was planning on opting for an air after I saw how great it was and after reading about how many glitches the first gen retina has, but after comparing both......
well like they say once you let your eyes see retina there's no turning back.
It was hard to compare the laptops, because I couldn't really get over the fact that the screen was just great. Wish Apple would just release the new retina already...
well like they say once you let your eyes see retina there's no turning back.
It was hard to compare the laptops, because I couldn't really get over the fact that the screen was just great. Wish Apple would just release the new retina already...
Booji
macrumors 6502a
Yup - I think the retina screen is pretty much a luxury for what is essentially a work machine. Since most sites and applications won't take advantage of the increase in pixel density, what you have is all that expensive hardware and power going to push out smoother text.
Now, on a phone or tablet its a much stronger argument since both are consumption oriented devices and you hold the screens much closer to your eyes.
Ifti
macrumors 601
I couldnt resist the Air either!!
I sold my 2012 MacBook Pro 13 recently as I want a max spec 15" rMBP to use as my main editing machine.
Ive never had a MBA before but just ordered one, with a new TC, to use as a postable system - more an iPad replacement to be honest.
Although I use an iPhone 5, and will be using a rMBP soon enough, Im hoping the screen on the Air is still more then adequate for my general uses! I didnt think it was that bad when I saw it in store a while back TBH.
I sold my 2012 MacBook Pro 13 recently as I want a max spec 15" rMBP to use as my main editing machine.
Ive never had a MBA before but just ordered one, with a new TC, to use as a postable system - more an iPad replacement to be honest.
Although I use an iPhone 5, and will be using a rMBP soon enough, Im hoping the screen on the Air is still more then adequate for my general uses! I didnt think it was that bad when I saw it in store a while back TBH.
Stealth777
macrumors newbie
Really? The retina I've got here is an amazing machine. It's still in the 14 day return window and I'm a software developer so what you say has me curious or are you just making things up? Please let us know some specifics when you make a statement like that.
----------
It's not just about text. Everything looks better because of the deeper blacks and increased contrast. The Air just looks washed out in comparison but the Air is still an ok screen for my eyes. The retina is miles ahead though.
I don't know about ridiculous but I'll offer my experiences with both this week. I am on my second 2013 haswell AIR and both of them have had -
1. Terrible Screen Flicker in Photoshop CS6, rendering it almost unusable
2. Volume fluctuations when streaming video
I also bought a refurb 13" 2.5 ghz rMBP a week ago and it has totally surprised me. I fully expected "laggy scrolling", "overheating" etc. but so far the machine is noticeably faster than the AIR in almost every respect. The retina opens finder windows much quicker, especially noticeable when opening shared folders on my network. It also loads web pages faster. In every aspect of working with the machine it's smoother and faster than the AIRS have been which has surprised me.
I thought that since the AIRS have I5000 graphics that are supposed to be 40% faster and the new quicker SSD's that I would expect them to pop open windows quicker etc. This is not the case. Regarding heat in the retina, the 13" one does not generate that much. It DOES get warmer than the Air which is amazing in that it's almost completely cool even when streaming videos for an hour. The retina is a bit warmer but not too much. Remember, the 13" retina has the cool air vents on the side as well as the back. The Air looks like it only vents at the back..where does it pull cool air in from?
Finally the retina has retina! It looks a lot better than the Air, but seems a bit more reflective (bad thing). It took my eyes a couple of days to get used to the retina. At first I actually found it more difficult to read text on because it seemed like my eyes couldn't focus on the screen properly or something. That seems to have gone away now. Having said that, I think the Air screen isn't that bad. It's certainly washed out in comparison, and it does look fuzzy and not as sharp as even my girlfriends 13" glossy plain old macbook pro, but it is a little higher res than her MBP and the screen is "good enough".
So, in my mind they are totally different machines. I'm having a tough time deciding which one to keep. I love the retina screen and the machine runs faster and smoother overall BUT -
1. The Air form factor is NICE. That tapered edge makes it much more comfortable to type on than the thicker edge of the rMBP. Believe it or not, this may be the thing that makes me keep the Air. Comfort in doing what you do on a computer (type and read) is a big deal. In the reading part however, the retina has the edge..
2. The battery life is REALLY REALLY nice to have. Although the rMBP is not bad, the battery life in the Air really is a game changer. I don't even think about battery life on the Air.
3. Dead Cool. The Air has never warmed up in normal use at all so far. And I mean literally sitting in your lap it feels like cool room temperature aluminum. It did get a little warmer when I was rendering some video in Final Cut Pro X (it was running for about 6 minutes at that point).
4. The half pound or so of lighter weight is nice to have
So, decisions decisions. Oh, I did find one issue with the rMBP. I went to that webpage that does the ghosting test and the screen DID retain a ghost image for about a minute. It was only noticeable on a grey background though. Doesn't even show up on white web pages etc. If that is something that would get worse, that would be a big negative for the retina, but the way it is now it seems like a small issue.
Great analysis. I have similar thoughts myself. I guess I'm just trying to convince myself to get the Air, otherwise I know the rMBP is for me.
I actually much prefer the MacBook Pro design versus the Air.
And this Back to School sale only makes it easier/more tempting to purchase a Mac today.
The 13" retina is as powerful as the 2013 Air, and realistically even the next-generation 13" retinas will be, by what we know about the new Haswell chips. This leaves the Retina with a battery boost (getting the same as the Air) and GPU boost (absorbed by the higher resolution).
You're paying more for an equally powerful computer with a nicer screen. And the Air still is a more tested machine, because every app and webpage out there is designed for similar resolutions.
But that's OK if you like the Retina.
Stealth777
macrumors newbie
you didn't answer the question
So, basically I'm left to understand that you were exaggerating in your original post about the retinas? Is there something specific that you know about why they are not good for "working"? Have you owned one?
I'm asking because I'm typing this post on a 2013 Air and I have the 2012 13" retina right beside it and the retina is faster at everything so far.
I didn't expect it to be this way based on posts like yours on the internet but having the two machines for a few days now I can't figure out why the Air is slower for most things (and this is the 2nd one).
So, if you have some specifics about why you think the retina is a poor machine from personal use, please let me know. I can still return mine.
So, basically I'm left to understand that you were exaggerating in your original post about the retinas? Is there something specific that you know about why they are not good for "working"? Have you owned one?
I'm asking because I'm typing this post on a 2013 Air and I have the 2012 13" retina right beside it and the retina is faster at everything so far.
I didn't expect it to be this way based on posts like yours on the internet but having the two machines for a few days now I can't figure out why the Air is slower for most things (and this is the 2nd one).
So, if you have some specifics about why you think the retina is a poor machine from personal use, please let me know. I can still return mine.