Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[SB1500]

Toyota's advertising really irritates me. Their non-plug-in hybrids are put forward as a benefit over plug in, being: "Self Charging Hybrids". They are not self charging, they use the gasoline motor to recharge their battery and are inferior in every way to plug in hybrids. They no longer sell their PHEV range in the UK. "Self Charging" would be like saying they have self rotating wheels i.e. a complete nonsense.

Wilson

Let's fact check Toyota.

Are they Hybrids? Yes, they have an engine capable of driving the car. They also have an electric battery and motor system, also capable of driving the car...
Are they self charging? They don't need to be plugged in to the wall and inconvenience the user MASSIVELY - ever. So yeah, they're self charging.

I think what you're being is called 'obtuse'.

They don't advertise cars having self rotating wheels, but in the same sense, in the fact that the driver does not have to rotate them, that would also be true...

Plug-in is stupid in my opinion. As are EVs in general. We can debate that all day and night, but the one thing you can't debate is that they are absolutely in no way contributing to helping the planet at all. Congestion in big cities? Sure, so long as every single vehicle in sight is an EV (which it's not) but even that - and car ownership in general - is very little in contributing to the planets problems environmentally.

 

[SB1500]

Exactly why trucks have never been popular over here. Fuel costs have always been a lot more expensive this side of the pond. One of the reasons I switched to an EV.

If you're in the UK, then you're already paying more per recharge than a typical petrol car would for a tank of petrol today - and that's only going to be more so the case. If you compare the distance gained by that, it looks even worse on the EV...

'Travelling far' never used to be something reserved only for the wealthy, even if you owned an old, basic car. Quite the opposite actually. But now the elite want that to change. Sad imo.

 

[SB1500]

Costs depend on geopolitics. People were screaming about natural gas and electricity prices in New England since last summer. Electric prices are dropping slowly as the NG generators buy futures contract and those have to roll over to lower prices. I do believe that our much higher prices were due to exporting it to Europe.


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Your higher fuel prices (and ours in Europe) are a result of our governments decision to produce less fossil fuel refined oil / gas 'within our borders' so we can say we are reducing bad activities and hit quotas that they commit to... Which only makes our dependence on imported energy more important - a very bad thing for a long list of reasons.. We are also investing big in renewables that have only ever proven to be massive wastes of money for investors that often don't even pay for their construction, have a limited lifespan and patchy output. Again, politicians look good and meet quotas and targets because of this.

And still, the countries and activities making an insane dent on the planet continue unphased, whilst we get divided blaming each other for rising costs, as we try to balance our average incomes against paying nearly double (at one point in the UK) than we did under a decade ago.

I'd totally get the cost and sacrificed if it was helping the planet, but it's not. :-( That's what enrages me about the whole EV and green energy debate.

 

[Apple fanboy]

If you're in the UK, then you're already paying more per recharge than a typical petrol car would for a tank of petrol today - and that's only going to be more so the case. If you compare the distance gained by that, it looks even worse on the EV...

'Travelling far' never used to be something reserved only for the wealthy, even if you owned an old, basic car. Quite the opposite actually. But now the elite want that to change. Sad imo.

Nope. If you charge at night the electricity prices are very reasonable on the EV tariffs.
I charge at work so I pay nothing for my charging 95% of the time.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Let's fact check Toyota.

Are they Hybrids? Yes, they have an engine capable of driving the car. They also have an electric battery and motor system, also capable of driving the car...
Are they self charging? They don't need to be plugged in to the wall and inconvenience the user MASSIVELY - ever. So yeah, they're self charging.

I think what you're being is called 'obtuse'.

They don't advertise cars having self rotating wheels, but in the same sense, in the fact that the driver does not have to rotate them, that would also be true...

Plug-in is stupid in my opinion. As are EVs in general. We can debate that all day and night, but the one thing you can't debate is that they are absolutely in no way contributing to helping the planet at all. Congestion in big cities? Sure, so long as every single vehicle in sight is an EV (which it's not) but even that - and car ownership in general - is very little in contributing to the planets problems environmentally.

EV’s are better for the environment than petrol and diesel cars. That’s pretty clear. The offset for mining and building an EV is covered in the first two years of ownership. After that it’s greener for every mile, even when some of the electricity is produced by burning fossil fuel (which of course some countries do a lot more than others).
Happy doing my big for the planet and having a better driving experience too.

Went to on a 2 and a half hour drive on Monday and Tuesday in a diesel van. My head afterwards. It’s so noisy compared to EV’s. I’ll be glad when they get banned!

 

[ericwn]

EV’s are better for the environment than petrol and diesel cars. That’s pretty clear. The offset for mining and building an EV is covered in the first two years of ownership. After that it’s greener for every mile, even when some of the electricity is produced by burning fossil fuel (which of course some countries do a lot more than others).
Happy doing my big for the planet and having a better driving experience too.

Went to on a 2 and a half hour drive on Monday and Tuesday in a diesel van. My head afterwards. It’s so noisy compared to EV’s. I’ll be glad when they get banned!

I’m interested in seeing some citations on both sides to back up your arguments with data points.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m interested in seeing some citations on both sides to back up your arguments with data points.

It’s earlier in this thread if you care to go look.

 

[ericwn]

It’s earlier in this thread if you care to go look.

I tried but at 3000+ posts it gets a tad confusing.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I tried but at 3000+ posts it gets a tad confusing.

Sorry. It’s a hot topic!

 

[Martyimac]

Not interested. There is no infrastructure where I live worth mentioning. I'm retired and only drive 7-8K miles a year tops. Don't see the financial benefit of installing a 220V charger in my house. Not going to spend the retirement money on something with all these negatives.

 

[Richard8655]

I'm a big fan of public transportation, but also planning my next vehicle to be electric or at least hybrid. I just don't see contributing to the global carbon footprint anymore. I'm also retired, but feel it's the right thing to do. And the technology has significantly advanced to make it economical, at least for me. Internal combustion is so polluting and wasteful, having been around for more than 100 years. It's time to move on to more environmentally friendly technology.

Just aired. A good overview:

 

[monstermash]

If you're in the UK, then you're already paying more per recharge than a typical petrol car would for a tank of petrol today - and that's only going to be more so the case. If you compare the distance gained by that, it looks even worse on the EV...

'Travelling far' never used to be something reserved only for the wealthy, even if you owned an old, basic car. Quite the opposite actually. But now the elite want that to change. Sad imo.

It's a small island. How far can you possibly travel?

 

[Martyimac]

It's a small island. How far can you possibly travel?

600 miles according to Google.

 

[monstermash]

600 miles according to Google.

Yeah. I've driven almost twice that far in a day.

600 miles is easily just a one day drive.

 

[Martyimac]

Yeah. I've driven almost twice that far in a day.

600 miles is easily just a one day drive.

Probably depends on where you live, where you drive, roads available, etc etc.

 

[monstermash]

Probably depends on where you live, where you drive, roads available, etc etc.

Yes. Yes it does.

 

[Tagbert]

I’m interested in seeing some citations on both sides to back up your arguments with data points.

Article about the relatively short time it takes for an EV to pay off the extra energy needed for the initial build.

Lifetime carbon emissions of electric vehicles vs gasoline cars

Reuters analyzed data generated by an Argonne National Laboratory model to determine at what point a typical electric vehicle (EV) becomes cleaner than an equivalent gasoline car in terms of its lifetime carbon footprint.

www.reuters.com

This is one tool that lets you see what the mpg equivalent would be for an EV in your area (of the US) based on the local power grid.

How Clean is Your Electric Vehicle?

On average, electric vehicles (EVs) produce less carbon pollution than comparable gasoline-fueled cars. Just how much less depends on where they’re charged.

evtool.ucsusa.org

Here is a map showing a a similar mpg-equivalent for EVs in various areas. In even the most CO2 intensive areas, EVs are at least as good as a good ICEV and in most cases produce much less CO2.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/MicrosoftTeams-image-2-1125x900.png

Ars article talking about buying a new EV vs keeping an older ICEV. Also where those links came from.

New EV vs. old beater: Which is better for the environment?

EVs require more energy to build, but they are far more efficient to operate.

arstechnica.com

FYI @Apple fanboy

 

[Tagbert]

Not interested. There is no infrastructure where I live worth mentioning. I'm retired and only drive 7-8K miles a year tops. Don't see the financial benefit of installing a 220V charger in my house. Not going to spend the retirement money on something with all these negatives.

If you only drive 8K per year and you have a 120v outlet in your garage, you can use that to charge an EV. I drove about 10K per year for about 10 years charging an EV on 120v. It wasn’t particularly hard.

 

[Tagbert]

It's clear some struggle with some basic concepts. Disabled spots are there for legal reasons and have legal requirements to use them or you would get ticketed and towed. Parent and child are for what it says on the tin. EV parking is just another parking spot to me. Don't get upset with that fact. I wouldn't stop you from parking in other spots.

In some places parking your ICEV in a charging spot is illegal. At the very least, it is an antisocial move that places your minor convenience of not walking a few feet further over other's need to charge. Is that really something you would feel good about?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Keying a car is illegal and liable to get you shot in the face where I live.

I would never key someone’s car but I know people who would in the scenario you mentioned. Deliberately parking in a spot you don’t qualify for gets you a fine or a punch in the face where I live on occasion. Thankfully it’s illegal to shoot someone in the face here and some would even say that’s an overreaction even. A nasty scratch is better than 35 years in jail lol. The moral of the story is don’t be a (insert necessary name)

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Probably depends on where you live, where you drive, roads available, etc etc.

I’d love to see any American try and drive 600 UK miles and do that twice in a single day lol. I did just under 600 miles (581) a couple of weeks ago and it was nearly 10 hours of driving.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

If you're in the UK, then you're already paying more per recharge than a typical petrol car would for a tank of petrol today - and that's only going to be more so the case. If you compare the distance gained by that, it looks even worse on the EV...

'Travelling far' never used to be something reserved only for the wealthy, even if you owned an old, basic car. Quite the opposite actually. But now the elite want that to change. Sad imo.

No, you are not. The equivalent powerful car to our Polestar 2 would use way more in fuel. We had a lower powered BMW M2 Competition before, had to fill up every three days for about £70 now it is filling up every day But costs about £20 per week. You do the maths.

It's a small island. How far can you possibly travel?

Besides the excellent point by @The-Real-Deal82 you do realize it is part of Europe. A continent larger than the USA.

I’d love to see any American try and drive 600 UK miles and do that twice in a single day lol. I did just under 600 miles (581) a couple of weeks ago and it was nearly 10 hours of driving.

An exceptional point, mile-for-mile it is not comparable, it takes way longer. And besides, it is super dangerous to drive 1,200 miles (ca. 1,931 km) in one day. Furthermore, you need to average at least 50mph (ca. 80 km/h) without any stops to be able to do that. As good as impossible.

 

[monstermash]

I’d love to see any American try and drive 600 UK miles and do that twice in a single day lol. I did just under 600 miles (581) a couple of weeks ago and it was nearly 10 hours of driving.

You've enhanced the point I was making - which is when you live on a tiny island, stuffed in like cockroaches, you have a lot less reason to be concerned about range than when living someplace where there can be 365 miles between two cities and a population density of 1.3 people per square mile.

 

[SalisburySam]

…Europe. A continent larger than the USA.

Fact, but not by much. Europe: 3.93 million square miles, US: 3.80 million square miles.* The difference is about the size of Finland in Europe, or less than the size of Montana in the US. Europe is 50 sovereign states, US is one so yeah, differences there.

And now, back to our regularly-scheduled programming…

*Wikipedia

 

[diamond.g]

Fact, but not by much. Europe: 3.93 million square miles, US: 3.80 million square miles.* The difference is about the size of Finland in Europe, or less than the size of Montana in the US. Europe is 50 sovereign states, US is one so yeah, differences there.

And now, back to our regularly-scheduled programming…

*Wikipedia

One State?