Who owns IGZO? i.e (the screen tech)

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by whitedragon101, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. whitedragon101 macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    It seems its only a matter of time before Apple put IGZO displays in its products i.e iphone, iPad, rMBP etc But I'm wondering :

    1) Do Sharp own IGZO technology or could someone like Samsung come along and make the screens instead?

    2) Is there anything in the pipeline that may compete with IGZO?

    3) Could IGZO really be ready in time to be installed in the current (Sept-Oct) refresh of iphones, ipads and rMBPs?
     
  2. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #2
    Neither Sony nor Samsung own it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium_gallium_zinc_oxide
    JST is the Japan Science and Technology Agency
     
  3. sarthak macrumors 6502

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    #3
    The benefits I see are power consumption, form factor profile and high resolution.

    Considering the costs, it is unlikely we will have IGZO until a few years from now and earliest would be with the iPhone 6, iPad 6 or a newer rMBP.

    It does not make sense to introduce a revolutionary new display technology in the iPhone 5S which is most likely a small processor and camera spec bump.
     
  4. w00t951 macrumors 68000

    w00t951

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    #4
    IGZO's main use will be for 4K displays - at that resolution, IPS and PLS display technologies will be impractical, both in terms of manufacturing and practicality.

    Other benefits include lower power consumption (or higher brightness), smaller form factor, and potentially better color gamut.
     
  5. lianlua macrumors 6502

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    #5
    1) There's no one, single owner. There are many patents held by many companies. JST owns the biggest piece of it, but like others have said, it's not just Sharp they've licensed to.

    2) In what way? Every display on the market competes with IGZO. It's not a magical technology or anything. There are many other TFT improvements in development.

    3) There's nowhere near enough manufacturing capacity yet unless Apple has secretly taken over part of Kameyama for custom parts and kept the whole thing totally silent. Not totally impossible, but unprecedented.
     
  6. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    #6
    You are quite wrong.
    There are already IGZO displays selling.
    The Dell Precision M3800 is said to have a 3200x1600 IGZO panel. I am not enitrely sure about the Asus UX51VZ but I think that one is also IGZO.
    There are also one or two desktop screens with IGZO selling. Anand tested one I already I think.
    IGZO is ready and selling.
     
  7. sarthak macrumors 6502

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    #7
    You might want to do your research before posting. Look at the profit margins on those units. Profit margin, they're probably selling the intial thousand truckloads more than cost. They are expected to sell them at $1699 which includes an i7 chip and Quadro 2GB Workstation class graphics and 1TB HDD. It can also be configured with a 512GB SSD rather than the 1TB HDD and up to 16GB of RAM.

    The rMBP sells at much higher price point and includes cheaper (relative to) components. Putting in a retina IGZO display would cut into the profit margin that Apple aims for on the rMBPs. Apple also requires millions of flawless units. Dell would be lucky if they sold a tenth of that. There are a lot of people that pay a premium for Apple notebooks because of quality and software. It is a very small market that would pay a premium for a Windows notebook with Quadro graphics.

    IGZO is not ready at the quantity and cost that Apple requires. Even consider it on any other product, it wont be there until next next generation to say the least.

    It also makes absolutely no sense to put it in the iPhone considering the millions and millions required. Like I said before, it would not make sense to put a revolutionary new display technology into the 5S which is going to be a mere spec bump on the soc processor, memory and camera.

    "ready and selling" .... selling in dozens of units?
     
  8. whitedragon101 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    I think if they are telling the truth about power consumption it will take over the mobile market (tablet , phone, laptop) too.

    From the Sharp video it says :

    - 2x pixel density possible compared to TFT
    - 80-90% power saving on a still image
    - ultra narrow bezel panels
    - touch panels with paper feel possible

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnUUXoFsjoY

    ----------

    Do you think this because you have read articles on the stage Sharp (and others?) is at in producing IGZO panels or simply that no-one has seen them in a major product yet? If its the latter an apple product could be that major product. Some-one in a Macbook thread was pointing out that there were reports (from analysts admittedly) on the delay of the new rMBP being due to shortages of panels. Which would be strange for a product they have been producing for over a year.

    I think in reality we would probably have heard some rumours if this next rMBP was going to use an IGZO panel. But it does seem possible that the first product we see with IGZO is a major apple launch.
     
  9. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    #9
    So you say because they cannot order enough units they will be years and years out?
    The only part that is different on IGZO is one layer in six or something that make a whole display. It is not something radically different like AMOLED. If they already are in mass production, they can easily increase production. They just need to know they can sell the units. Apple ordered 2880x1800 screens and got them in volume. They order IGZO screens because they want more energy efficiency and they'd get them too. The stuff is ready, all they need to to is get the orders.

    And for iphones, if the battery life is worth it, they'll ask for those. Those things are planned far enough ahead to get production running. Not this gen but next they can.
    Most of the display stack is the same and most that defines the quality of the display stays the same. It ain't all that different.

    If Apple uses that display without asking for some 400$ upgrade price or something, I very much doubt they cost more than the current retina panels.
    Maybe IGZO fabs aren't yet ready because if they had increased production so much the rumor mill would probably have spit something out. They could definitely be ready next time if they get big orders.
    Apple didn't invent the retina panels. They were there. Just nobody produced them because nobody bought. Apple said we want, we pay. They build them.

    I did some research and all I can find on the web about IGZO is that it is well under way. No issues with production or quality. They are coming just now to market. Your remark of years and years is unsubstantiated. Maybe Apple will use something different but if they wanted to, they could jump on IGZO quite soon.

    IGZO production started over a year ago btw.
     
  10. sofianito macrumors 65816

    sofianito

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    #10
    FWIW, Apple's manufacturer Foxconn bought Sharp’s cutting-edge Japanese plant that produces IGZO panels.
     
  11. whitedragon101 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    The plot thickens :)
     
  12. sofianito macrumors 65816

    sofianito

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    #12
    I forgot to provide the source :D
     
  13. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    Those 80-90% only include the panel driving power not the the whole display including backlight.
    Backlight at the same res is also about cut in half due to this.
    http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-to-cut-power-consumption-boost-image-quality
    I assume though that they took a comparison panel that is not the best possible in power-consumption to look a little better and due to most IGZO panel coming from the get go with about the double resolution than what they tend to replace, I think we will probably end up with equally power intensive displays as before.
    The Apple retina panels in ipad 3, rMBP 13/15 are known as extermely power hungry, they could cut down a lot. It seems there is a lot to gain. The only thing that might be in the way is that Apple usually sourced panels for the Macs from more than one manufacturer. But to be honest that gave them more headaches than anything else and Sharp is so close to default that Apple could just buy the whole company or parts of it.

    What I really want to see is the ultra narrow bezels. I want a notebook with a sturdy solid 2mm bezel (left and right, top bottom may be higher). Nothing more. You could fit a much bigger screen into the same size chassis and due to IZGO efficiency it wouldn't even kill battery life.
     
  14. whitedragon101 thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    A 16.something" rMBP could be nice :) . It would fill the void the 17" left
     
  15. lianlua macrumors 6502

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    Not really. The small-format factory that makes the currently shipping IGZO displays is in Kameyama. Sakai makes larger IGZO panels but plain old a-Si small panels. If you're hatching a conspiracy theory based on that, think TV or maybe new Thunderbolt displays, not MacBooks and iPads.
     
  16. Astroboy907 macrumors 65816

    Astroboy907

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    #16
    =
     
  17. yusukeaoki macrumors 68030

    yusukeaoki

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    #17
    IGZO is owned by JST (Japan Science and Technology Agency) and currently licensed to SHARP and Samsung.

    I owned a Aquos Phone SHL22 which has the IGZO display. (before I switched to HTC One)
    From using that display, the power consumption is very low.
    Compared to iPhones and Ones, it sure saves your battery.
    So far I loved the stamina, touch feeling, and image quality on the IGZO display.
    Pretty amazing.
     

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