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I was speaking for everyday users. USB 3 will suffice just fine for them. Thunderbolt obviously has a different use market, at the moment.

Yes indeed. And i'm cool with that but slagging technology because it's currently outside the realm of affordability is fine not not logical. My Macbook Air has 128GB of SSD. I remember just a few years ago this drive would have alone cost 75% of what I paid for the MBA. I didn't say

"SSD should fail ..why is Apple cramming it down my throat" 3 years ago. I said "wow that's really fast...can't wait for it to come down in price"

Every technology we have today started out as expensive niche items that went mainstream. Thunderbolt will be no different.

Just because something is too expensive for you or not useful does not automatically make it pointless. There are many useful peripherals out there already and more on the way. Now that Apple's exclusivity is over we have pc motherboard manufacturers adding TB. The future is very bright. It does not replace USB. That's not what it was designed for. You will all stop complaining when in the future it will be faster and you'll be connecting to a dock with a powerful GPU and lots of other ports. The possibilities are endless and damn exciting.

In addition to Intel's efforts to reduce the chip count needed (in Cactus Ridge) which should result in lower cost peripherals. Eventually they'll simply integrate Thunderbolt into the PCH and we'll have a two tier structure ..USB 3 for your general stuff and the premium (lower pricing than today's premium) TB stuff.

Try cost .

It's a ****ing useless port for me given the cost of TB accessories v USB . Could
careless about the future. Last 2 years and at present it's a bloody ripoff !

How much "less" could you care? ;)
 
I can see why it would be useful, but I have yet to see a product that utilizes it in such a way that I'd find it absolutely necessary for a notebook to have it.

The problem with it is while it may be cutting edge, it has relatively little use to the "average" consumer at this point. Unfortunately I can't predict where technology can take us, but as I see it right now: Joe Schmo has been plugging away with USB as the "do it all" port for years now. USB 3.0, while slower than Thunderbolt, still feels like a sizable leap to the average user and is backwards compatible, so I see very little reason in the near future that Thunderbolt could captivate a large audience.

Who knows though, maybe it'll be the best way to sync our Apple jetbacks in 2015 and everyone will be using it :D
 
The moment 4KTV becomes mainstream or anything beyond 1080p, people will appreciate Thunderbolt.

right now I agree thunderbolt is not for the masses, but the fact all their notebooks have both TB and USB3, there is next to no reason to complain or question, and HDMI to boot on the RMBP. Unless of course you're a Mac pro user like myself complain to your hearts content.

Apple's most powerful computer doesn't even have eSata connections as standard, yet their laptops have USB 3!!! TB and Mac Pros make perfect sense, match made in heaven.

I personally don't get the FireWire and ping comments... I have never used ping once, but I've relied on FireWire for the last 6 years, and won't buy a hard drive without 800, for what I do (video/film), USB 2 isn't enough.. Even USB 3 is showing its limitations. TB is the dogs b**locks, but yeah, just wish the actual devices were a LOT cheaper, way too pricey right now.. It really isn't helping the I/O standard to become, well, more standard
 
SSD has already outstripped the bandwidth of USB and SATA.


There's a reason why Intel's worked with Apple, Sony and others on Thunderbolt technology.

They realize that the bus that is going to drive speed improvements in the near future isn't USB or Firewire it's PCI-Express.

Intel now has a 910 SSD that delivers 2GBbps read and 1GBps write. You simply cannot get this performance on any affordable technology other than PCI Express.

If companies didn't have to think strategically they too could think TB was pointless and shelve all plans but unfortunately they have to ensure they have business not only today but in the future.
 
TB Ain't Pointless, man

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the case that for multi-track audio/video hardware and software concerned with timing (like SMPTE applications) USB has always required work-arounds because it is, well, serial? Timing has to be separated from the signal(s) then re-synced once past the serial stream, forcing inherent kludginess in such applications. Firewire (and TB when we see them) interfaces win with higher bandwidth and because timing can be directly integrated with the data stream, right? Thus USB may be cheaper but the consequences of employing it aren't worth the trouble in some areas.

My 2 cents. :D
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not the case that for multi-track audio/video hardware and software concerned with timing (like SMPTE applications) USB has always required work-arounds because it is, well, serial? Timing has to be separated from the signal(s) then re-synced once past the serial stream, forcing inherent kludginess in such applications. Firewire (and TB when we see them) interfaces win with higher bandwidth and because timing can be directly integrated with the data stream, right? Thus USB may be cheaper but the consequences of employing it aren't worth the trouble in some areas.

My 2 cents. :D

That is absolutely correct. It's an issue for devices like external sound cards and DACs.

If you want to connect a single external hdd or a mouse and keyboard, then USB is great. TB is not here to replace that. I don't really understand some of the attitudes on this forum. Cutting edge technology pushed this whole industry forward. Early adaptors pay a premium. What's there to be surprised about?
 
I think expensive technologies always get pushback. We all want to pay less for our gear.

However I'm happy that Thunderbolt is here. Just looking at the performance we're getting today is nothing compared to what we'll be bickering about on MR in 5 years.

Today I rebooted a Macbook Air and it took 16 seconds. In 5 years I don't even think a full reboot will take 8 seconds.

I imagine we'll all have devices at home that literally wake up when we need to in seconds and send the data we need and then shut back down. In fact Power Nap is kind of the precursor to this.

Exciting times but fear not it WILL get cheaper and fast.
 
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Just having a conversation on another thread and I still think that thunderbolt is being shoved down our throats. Even after 1.5yrs there are only a handful of peripherals, most being overpriced external hard drives.

I understand their direction towards professionals, who are really the only ones that may necessitate them, but I still feel like Apple and intel have both failed at this new technology.

Your the average Luddite common in the mac community. Partly apples fault for normally being slow to catch up with new tech.

Now they show your caveman mentality fire and you run for the caves.

Ug ug fire? Ug ug
 
I think expensive technologies always get pushback. We all want to pay less for our gear.

However I'm happy that Thunderbolt is here. Just looking at the performance we're getting today is nothing compared to what we'll be bickering about on MR in 5 years.

I agree.

Today I rebooted a Macbook Air and it took 16 seconds. In 5 years I don't even think a full reboot will take 8 seconds.

Hah.

One of my friends had his Amiga rebooting in under a second in 1989. Sure, it was slow the first time you booted from floppy, but then it had a ramdisk that survived reboots and would be up in under a second.

I've watched boot times rise and fall plenty often. Things get slower, sometimes. Compare how long it takes to boot, oh, say, an iPad or an iPhone. They take a while longer to come up than my desktop does...
 
I think its pointless. Who uses peripherals nowadays? Especially on a laptop.

I try to avoid usb as much as possible. I try to do everything wirelessly as much as possible. I don't see how I am going to use the TB, not now or in the near future. Not even for an external hdd since usb2 is sufficient enough.

USB3 on the other hand is a welcome upgrade since its backwards compatible and USB2 is implemented widely. All my chargers, thumbdrives, external hdds are all USB. All my buddies also have USB and that is not going to change anytime soon
 
I think its pointless. Who uses peripherals nowadays? Especially on a laptop.

I try to avoid usb as much as possible. I try to do everything wirelessly as much as possible. I don't see how I am going to use the TB, not now or in the near future. Not even for an external hdd since usb2 is sufficient enough.

USB3 on the other hand is a welcome upgrade since its backwards compatible and USB2 is implemented widely. All my chargers, thumbdrives, external hdds are all USB. All my buddies also have USB and that is not going to change anytime soon

It sounds like for the way you use your macbook TB is useless, however for people who want multiple monitors and ASTONISHING transfer speeds, TB is amazing and will eventually become the standard for in/out peripherals
 
How much "less" could you care? ;)

Alot :)

The issue is that I have a 24" apple monitor with mini display port and a Imac 27 with a display port in. The Imac also is used as a monitor for my PC, which is used for major number crunching/encoding as its running a 6 core extreme cpu at 4.6, so it saves heaps of time when encoding videos.

The issue is that now Apple have moved to TB, I cannot upgrade to the new Display or the New Imac cause of the #$(&%^# TB interface, as it will not accept video in from my Video card which is mini display port.

Yes TB might have a future..... way way down the line, when Apple actually puts it into a Mac Pro, though right now, its a useless interface for myself.
 
If you have a thunderbolt display, it's a godsend.

It seems pointless to people now because it's still not really being adopted by the masses, once pc's start adding it as a standard port then things will really start kicking off in terms of products that fully take advantage.
 
Just having a conversation on another thread and I still think that thunderbolt is being shoved down our throats. Even after 1.5yrs there are only a handful of peripherals, most being overpriced external hard drives.

I understand their direction towards professionals, who are really the only ones that may necessitate them, but I still feel like Apple and intel have both failed at this new technology.

Thunderbolt is brilliant but just a bit ahead of it's time. I moved my MacBook Air to my new MacBook Pro retina in 1.5 minutes via Thunderbolt. Damn near fell over watching how fast it worked.

Now I'll admit the $50 Apple Thunderbolt cable hurt, but it is amazing technology and incredibly versatile.
 
If you have a thunderbolt display, it's a godsend.

It seems pointless to people now because it's still not really being adopted by the masses, once pc's start adding it as a standard port then things will really start kicking off in terms of products that fully take advantage.
I've got a Thunderbolt Display, so no. Thunderbolt to me isn't pointless.
 
The success or failure of thunderbolt all hinges on whether other computer manufacturers embrace the technology. If they opt to stick with USB3, then this standard will whither on the vine and die. Its doesn't matter how much Apple pushes this, only through acceptance by others will this succeed.

The performance of TB is great but I'm not willing to spend top dollar on TB devices when USB3 is good enough (for me).
 
Many people here seem to think all it takes is mass adoption for good prices.
Just look at firewire or other more complex chip designs.

Thunderbolt needs insanely expensive active cables that cost more than the controllers. Optical solutions are apparently still not working and would be even more expensive.
The current controller is still quite huge and expensive. Only made by one company that is very fond of its margins. Those won't ever be anywhere near as cheap as DP, USB 3.
It is and will stay a really expensive tech that is only worth it for very few applications even if you fast forward 5 years into the future.

It is a tech that sound good but doesn't deliver what it was supposed to. It sucks too much energy.

The only real purpose are docking stations and some workstation external drive array uses. The former is the only thing that may be of use for many people but I don't see them coming down in price.
You need a TB controller, a PCB that supports via additional controllers HDMI, DP, DVI, VGA, USB 3, Audio and if that wasn't enough a cable that will never be much cheaper than double or tripple a still not very cheap HMDI cable.
All that in a box plus margin for the company and it is a freak-in expensive piece.
Apparently the external GPU solutions have big troubles with BSOD and other driver problems that aren't that easy to fix. TB is just not that great at plug&play.

TB was once touted as the one size fits all future wonder for everything. USB 3 is worlds cheaper, needs less energy, 2$ cables and is fast enough for anything that isn't Displays, external GPUs or really fast RAID arrays. Current USB 3.0 controller can handle close to 300 MB/s which should be enough for any single drive and even dual HDD RAID 0/1 arrays. 400 MB/s is about what future controllers will possible achieve as a maximum.
That is enough for almost anybody for very little money.

TB will have a hard time justifying its cost on the mass market and will therefore likely never really become a true mass market product.

What it needs is optical cables with unlimited length. Cheaper controllers. More stable plug & play. Cheaper cables. Willingness from Intel to subsidize the adoption in the mass market somewhat.
That would at least make it a great future standard for universities, companies, events, where people need often work with projectors and other equipment.
Somehow I think even here some wireless Display tech will show before TB really becomes a standard.
I wonder if it would be possible for a optical TB to enable wireless optical bridges. You just put the Notebook next to a sensor built into the table. The optical signal travels some 3-50cm over the air (or directly even further) to the cable and than goes to the projector, display from there. No need for adapters, plugs at all, and possibly much less energy use.

Wireless is the future. I agree with some posters that TB is more or less doa. It will find a use by a very limited number of people but won't penetrate the mass market because of the costs and lack of real need for its features.
 
Many people here seem to think all it takes is mass adoption for good prices.
No, I think mass adoption is needed not for prices but for the long term viability of TB. If apple is the only maker that uses TB, the standard won't survive.
 
they are starting to merge into PC world now, so i expect there will be many more adapters and docking stations and whatnot in the future.

The port itself is really great, and it is the future.
 
You guys are ****ing clueless. Reading your posts is like reading the Rain Man posting. Who let Bubba Gump start posting?

Thunderbolt is PCI-Express moved to an external connection of which Intel controls. How exactly is it going to fail?

You seen the price of Thunderbolt peripherals?
 
If it were being "shoved down our throats" Apple would drop USB entirely and force us to use TB dongles. But that's not what it's doing. But peripheral manufacturers are not going to invest money developing TB products until there is a decent sized user base to buy them. That is the key reason why it's slow going and expensive.

I'll grant you Apple's execution with TB is lousy and very un-Apple. Given how Apple is catering more to consumers than pros right now, a $50 TB cable makes no sense. Even if it cost Apple $30 per to manufacture, Apple should just eat the cost as a loss leader. They did this with DVD-R blanks when they shipped the first PM w/ DVD burner. After all this is Intel and its baby, and it's not too clear how much Intel cares about it right now. Someone has to help it grow.

TB as a standard is fantastic. It's not junk like the original USB, or even USB 2 in many aspects. So I don't get why so many are angry over it. Macs now have USB 3. We can choose whatever connector is most convenient.
 
If it were being "shoved down our throats" Apple would drop USB entirely and force us to use TB dongles. But that's not what it's doing. But peripheral manufacturers are not going to invest money developing TB products until there is a decent sized user base to buy them. That is the key reason why it's slow going and expensive.

I'll grant you Apple's execution with TB is lousy and very un-Apple. Given how Apple is catering more to consumers than pros right now, a $50 TB cable makes no sense. Even if it cost Apple $30 per to manufacture, Apple should just eat the cost as a loss leader. They did this with DVD-R blanks when they shipped the first PM w/ DVD burner. After all this is Intel and its baby, and it's not too clear how much Intel cares about it right now. Someone has to help it grow.

TB as a standard is fantastic. It's not junk like the original USB, or even USB 2 in many aspects. So I don't get why so many are angry over it. Macs now have USB 3. We can choose whatever connector is most convenient.

People like to be angry with no rational reasoning behind it.
 
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