Well in this case if you look at the radiator from the pictures Apple-X site posted, you'll notice that the pipes are a lot longer than they seem as they coil like a spring through the radiator sides (kind of like how your small intestines stay compact.) Thus allowing Apple to keep a larger volume of liquid through-out the whole system in a relatively small and efficient space by comparison to what PC modders use. The big black box on the bottom right of the unit, looks like the actual pump and that probably contains the reservoir. By keeping the liquid longer in the radiator Apple is probably gets the best cooling effectiveness while forcing the liquid to move more rapidly over the shorter length of the processors, thus allowing them to run the cooling in series over the two processors. Minor modifications in the heat sink of processor 2 over processor 1 would allow both of them to remain at relatively the same temperature. Couple that with the fact that the OS can bias threads to the cooler processor when the system is not being fully used.jared_kipe said:
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whoa I just looked at the dual 2.5GHz g5 watercooling it's mad!!!
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PlaceofDis said:
Keep in mind that this is for a dual, and much faster, G5 configuration. For a laptop we could get away with perhaps a single thin radiator running side to side along the back hinge, tie in the bus and graphics chip into the line, and add a small reservoir. I strongly believe we could see this implementation any time soon by any computer manufacturer. There could be another way of passively cooling it by running it up and through the monitor.
IBM is using a setup to do just this called a "thermal hinge".jared_kipe said:
On another note, do you think Apple would be using water in that system? If it ever breaks...
I would think they would use something like that new liquid from Tyco so as not to damage any of the guts.
People who are really worried about leaks in the PC Modding world usually silicone insulate the motherboard and CPU I don't see why this couldn't be done. Plus I was aware of IBM's use of liquid and the thermal hinge. Plus the people that make those insane laptops and desktops like L industries or something, they have a giant lowercase cursive L as their logo, use water cooling in their high-end laptops. And insane gas expansion cooling on desktops. I want to see the overclocked G5 using liquid nitrogen like tomshardware.com uses. And on another note, how hard do you think it would be to overclock dual 1.8s to run at like 1.9 or 2.0? I've never seen overclocked G5s.
jared_kipe said:
Thanks for the info. Here's a question though: I understand that water is good for cooling because of its high specific heat capacity, but once the water is heated, how is the water forced to lose the heat quickly enough to remain cool? Surely once the water gets warm, the water can't be efficient at picking up the heat from the cpu's anymore. Its simple thermodynamics, right?
Man I wish I had that unit sitting in my house, its so cool Me want, me want, too bad I can't afford it.
Me want, me want, too bad I can't afford it.
Abstract said:
The water cools down enough to keep the chips from getting too hot. The water itself doesn't have to be "cold" it just has to be cooler than the chips. Just like the coolant in a car. The coolant gets very, very hot but it still cools the engine off.
Lethal
It's annoying that the dual 2.5GHz unit is one unit with the watercooling
that means that if one prosessor go's both have to be replaced and you couldent order that watercooling set from apple as a service part plonk it on a dual 2.0GHZ and overclock to 2.5 like many dual 1.25GHz g4 owners did with the dual 1.42GHz copper heatsink
that means that if one prosessor go's both have to be replaced and you couldent order that watercooling set from apple as a service part plonk it on a dual 2.0GHZ and overclock to 2.5 like many dual 1.25GHz g4 owners did with the dual 1.42GHz copper heatsink
How do you refill the thing if the water (or whatever you fill it with) supply goes low? And even worse... how can you tell when to fill it up.
It's not water, it's only part water. It's mostly a mix of other special liquids so that it does not need bleeding and refilling all the time as with most water cooling systems. At least from what I can make out that's what they've doen.Coolvirus007 said:
I've been watercooling my PC for years now. It has a lot of advantages. They way it works, at the most basic level, is that water is pumped into a waterblock that sits on top of the CPU. The CPU heat transfers to the water and the hot water is pumped away to a radiator where the heat gets dissipated.redAPPLE said:
It can be far quieter than air cooling. Also, it is more efficient than air cooling too. The main drawbacks are having to have a pump and the "possibility" of a leak (not too likely if it is built well). Also, if the water isn't treated, after a while, mold and corrosion build so hopefully Apple (i'm sure they did) took the proper steps to ensure that wouldn't happen.
-Kevin
Abstract said:
The reason it works so well is because a CPU only has a little tinny area over which to give off it's heat. With the water cooling, the water picks up the heat, and then runs through many loops of a radiator. Because it has so much more surface area, it can give away it's heat better.
Oh and to whomever said it that as long as the water was cooler than the CPU, even if it was very close, is only part correct. It will continue to cool, but not nearly as well as if the water was near room temperature. Newton's laws of cooling states that the rate of cooling is porportional to the difference between the temperatures. So it will work much better if that difference is high.
I don't know the big deal about this water cooling stuff. I just put my G5 in the bathtub or shower when it gets hot.
Any thoughts as to the "longevity" of the water cooling system. Many of us are used to systems lasting 5 to 10+ years on the Mac systems without issues.
I guess the question is what is the MTF for water cooling systems?
I guess the question is what is the MTF for water cooling systems?
Chip NoVaMac said:
thats what I'm thinking too. I am wavering between the Dual 2 and 2.5 b/c of this reason. I figure if the air cooling is suffering in the dual 2 five years down the road I can just replace a fan or two. However for dual 2.5 I don't know where I could get a dual processor Radiator!
Chip NoVaMac said:
My Sega Dreamcast has a water cooled system in it and is still ok after 5 years. I would expect this one to do as well. Tho depending on the advancement of technology after 5 years the G5's might not run the latest software. Who knows what advances are coming.
Xenious said:
It may not run the latest software 5 years from now, but many users don't always go that route. Ask some production houses that are running Quark 3, 4, and %; along with Photoshop 5, 6 and 7.
wdlove said:
unfortunately most problems happen during the first year of operation(Applecare included) or AFTER 3 years (when AppleCare Extended is gone).
The statisticians in apple know this. However I do wonder which is more reliable a air cooled system or a liquid cooled.
Car engines have been liquid and air cooled for ever and leaks don't happen that often, even though a Car is constantly vibrating,shaking and... well moving around.