Who's getting the 21.5" iMac over the 27"?

[MetzoPaino]

I would like a fully upgraded 21.5" iMac, but the 5400rpm drive may be a deal breaker. I do audio work which needs a lot of fast read and writes, and a 5400rpm drive in my current 2008 MacBook Pro has caused all sorts of stuttering and playback interruptions.

Fusion Drive may make that point moot, which I would love. If Fusion Drive was always a 7200rpm drive I would be over the moon, but I doubt it. Going to have to see how the Fusion Drives in the Mac mini do in tests to decide. I would hate it though if I got this new device and encountered the same problems straight away, I'd spend the next 5 or so years thinking "I wish I just spent the extra money for a 27" iMac".

 

[VassilyTheSkin]

I'll buy the High End version. The 1TB HDD plus 128GB(?) Flash storage tips the balance for me over the base model.
I think for the way I use a computer most of the programs and files i'll need to have running will be supplied from the SSD so the 5400rpm speed of the HDD is not a big issue for me

 

[NJelect]

I think the 21.5" has a more pleasing appearence but I sense in a week or two I would have elected to shelling out a few more sheckles and buying the 27"

The 27" may appear a little overwhelming at the typical sitting distance but in a couple of days one will adjust.

 

[Trinite]

Boy, sometimes I wish I lived in the US. Here in Hungary, Apple stuff is just SO much more expensive (27% VAT!) - and of course making this new iMac viable looks especially expensive already. It seems like the only way to make the 21.5 iMac worthwhile, really, will be to get the Fusion drive AND max out the RAM. Sigh. What price future-proofing.....

 

[MagicThief83]

Well, as mentioned earlier, the available 2.5" drives from Apple intended for the new iMac are only 5400 rpm. The difference between 7200 rpm and 5400 rpm with both having a 128 gb flash Fusion Drive, aka "cache" (I use this term lightly, as I read that the Apple Fusion Drive differs somewhat from Intel's RST, with it writing everything to flash then moving files around, etc.) should be really unnoticeable.

However, in regard to eventual drive/disk upgrade and replacement I am fairly optimistic that if the machine is not glued together, we should be able to plop a 2.5" SSD into the 21.5" iMac's "bay" (assuming the leaked image from that Chinese forum a few weeks ago was indeed a 21.5" iMac - 100% sure at this point it was) as we see fit. Of course depending upon what sort of proprietary connections Apple threw at us this time around.

With all this being said, I find myself now wondering whether or not it is wise to wait for iFixit's tear down of the 21.5" and not jump on ordering/pre ordering once it's available. My reasoning is that I can just pick up an Intel 240gb 330 series, or a Samsung 256gb 830 series, for a lesser price than a 1TB Fusion setup. Granted I am sacrificing space, but I am gaining speed and hopefully reliability. For no particular reason, I am just against spinning disks in my machines, especially All In Ones. It's funny too because I've only had 1 hard drive fail. This was on an iMac 3 years after purchase date too. Of course a few months after Apple Care. It didn't bother me, I opened it up and went to town!

But, the flip side of all this is of course opening up a brand new $1500 machine and risking something going wrong.

Oh as cliche as it sounds, such first world problems!

Just want to get the best bang for my buck here lol!

So you're saying that Apple couldn't include a 7200 rpm drive in the 21.5" because they are too big (3.5")? That would make sense. I think the 1TB Fusion drive will be just fine, as I already have an external 4TB thunderbolt drive. To be honest, with the redesign of the iMac and the thinness, I don't know if opening it up and tinkering with it would be such a good idea. I think you're best off just BTO'ing to your liking and calling it a day. As you said, the Fusion drive should make writing/reading data almost unnoticeable (because flash SSD beats regular SSD) and you get the added benefit of higher capacity. I highly doubt Apple would give us a BTO option for a 256GB stand-alone SSD in the 21.5". I don't know man, I guess I'll just have to wait until both iMac models are present in store, and then I'll make a decision from there. However, I really feel like a better GPU in the 27" (although great for gaming), will increase the machine's propensity for thermal failure because those GPUs generate so much heat, and knowing me, I tend to get into extended gaming sessions once I really get into a game. I would hate for something to fail, especially after the first year.

 

[Johnf1285]

So you're saying that Apple couldn't include a 7200 rpm drive in the 21.5" because they are too big (3.5")? That would make sense. I think the 1TB Fusion drive will be just fine, as I already have an external 4TB thunderbolt drive. To be honest, with the redesign of the iMac and the thinness, I don't know if opening it up and tinkering with it would be such a good idea. I think you're best off just BTO'ing to your liking and calling it a day. As you said, the Fusion drive should make writing/reading data almost unnoticeable (because flash SSD beats regular SSD) and you get the added benefit of higher capacity. I highly doubt Apple would give us a BTO option for a 256GB stand-alone SSD in the 21.5". I don't know man, I guess I'll just have to wait until both iMac models are present in store, and then I'll make a decision from there. However, I really feel like a better GPU in the 27" (although great for gaming), will increase the machine's propensity for thermal failure because those GPUs generate so much heat, and knowing me, I tend to get into extended gaming sessions once I really get into a game. I would hate for something to fail, especially after the first year.

Yeah the way the 2.5" is situated in the 21.5" (going off of that leaked image), leads me to believe it was a decision made based upon size. Now I can see why they decided upon 5400rpm. It is becuase there really isn't any viable 1TB 7200rpm option in the 2.5" HDD form factor. I was scratching my head over this a few weeks ago once that image surfaced. I thought that it would be the base 21.5" and offer a 500gb 7200rpm 2.5" HDD and that the higher end 21.5" would offer an SSD option. I guess I was wrong somewhat.

So now that we learned all 21.5" models will have a 2.5" 1TB 5400rpm HDD I realize that instead of giving us speed they gave us space. Again, at the cost of thinness for performance. Fusion helps negate this though, which I am getting on board with.

My last PC had a 128gb Intel SSD and a 500gb Western Digital black for storage. It worked great, but I managed each drive individually. I had a p67 motherboard thats why (no Intel RST). I look forward to Fusion managing it all for me. Also its great to learn all the writes are going directly to flash first.

I agree on the heat concerns on the higher end models.

But it seems like my decision was made when my wife said the 27" (configured how I would want it) is just too much money.

So I said fine the 21.5" it is, as I really didn't want to spend more regardless.

But then she was saying how I should get something cheaper that would allow for me to have a 27" screen. She said this because she is comparing it to her system which is a 27" 1920x1080 Acer monitor and a little mini ITX AMD A8 3870k box that we built her last year, which by the way offers amazing graphics for an IGP.

So I said well, the thing is, if I took another route to get a 27" I would need to spend at least $700 on it and it just wouldn't even compare. She didn't understand why so I had to give her a lesson in PPI.

Her 27" 1920x1080 monitor has an 81.59 PPI
The 21.5" 1920x1080 iMac display has a 102.46 PPI
The 27" 2560x1440 iMac display has a 108.79 PPI

I said essentially, while the display is indeed smaller, the PPI is nearly as good as the 27" iMac and is way better than your PPI.

She wasn't too thrilled to learn this, but then in her defense said her 27" was great for watching Hulu from bed. This I do agree with her on!

 

[Johnf1285]

Now I am wondering what brand HDD Apple will be offering in the 21.5" model?

Western Digital Scorpio Blue?
Seagate Momentus (please god no)?
Toshiba?

I hope they go with a reliable brand like Toshiba or something.

 

[easy4lif]

21.5 base model with upgraded to 16gb ram. unless a sweet one shows up in the refurbished section

(Ill be buying mine in march)

 

[Icaras]

Here as well. I hope the 650M can play my games well. How much do you guys expect a maxed out 21..5" to cost? I'm definitely getting the 1TB fusion drive. Do you guys think the drive is a 5400rpm or 7200rpm? Actually video game benchmarks of the GT650M prove it to be quite capable of high performance gaming (in Bootcamp that is!)

I'm expecting it to cost a bit over 2K. Anywhere from $2049 to $2299. Just comparing with the BTO options of the retina Macbook Pro 15" and the new Mac Mini, I figure the following estimates...

i5 > i7 CPU: $100 - $250
8GB > 16GB RAM: $200 - $300
1TB > 1TB Fusion Drive: $200 - $250

Yea I definitely need the 1TB fusion drive myself. I plan on committing myself to an almost completely 100% iCloud lifestyle once iTunes 11 is released next week. It should have Netflix style streaming via iCloud, so I want to delete all my locally stored iCloud supported movies and TV shows. I also use iTunes match, and if purchased music can be streamed as well, I'll delete those too. From what I understand, iTunes 11 will display everything you've purchased from iTunes, regardless if it's stored locally or not. This is huge for me because it's perfect for streaming, always displays your entire library, and avoids the hassle of having to manually access the store each time you'd like to redownload something.

The only thing I'll keep locally on the fusion drive are my non-iTunes purchased music for backup sake. But iOS apps, books, and podcasts can all go too since those are all iCloud based as well and sync great between my iOS devices. I'm hoping to go slim and lean with my local media content.

Anyway, sorry I digress.... But for the purpose of just general media storage, the 5400 is perfectly fine.

I would like a fully upgraded 21.5" iMac, but the 5400rpm drive may be a deal breaker. I do audio work which needs a lot of fast read and writes, and a 5400rpm drive in my current 2008 MacBook Pro has caused all sorts of stuttering and playback interruptions.

How could I have missed this? You're absolutely right. I do audio work too and I just mentioned in the last page that it wouldn't be a deal break for me because I was thinking of just media files for playback (iTunes library). But yes, I'm going to run programs like Logic Pro and Ableton Live so I completely forgot about my sample libraries lol. And I've always used a 7200 rpm drive for that. However, could the slower rpm possibly be offset since it's internal and using a SATA interface?

Also, an alternative would be to get a 7200 rpm external drive with firewire or USB 3.0 (since iMac now supports it), or better, if you'd like to match the bandwidth of SATA, you could get a Thunderbolt drive. And depending on your sample library, a Thunderbolt SSD would be the ultimate external solution. That might be a bit expensive though.

Anyway, I'll have to consider this now.

So I said well, the thing is, if I took another route to get a 27" I would need to spend at least $700 on it and it just wouldn't even compare. She didn't understand why so I had to give her a lesson in PPI.

Her 27" 1920x1080 monitor has an 81.59 PPI
The 21.5" 1920x1080 iMac display has a 102.46 PPI
The 27" 2560x1440 iMac display has a 108.79 PPI

I said essentially, while the display is indeed smaller, the PPI is nearly as good as the 27" iMac and is way better than your PPI.

She wasn't too thrilled to learn this, but then in her defense said her 27" was great for watching Hulu from bed. This I do agree with her on!

Ah, I know how that is

My wife actually owns a 27" ACD herself and she absolutely loves it. And although she agrees its quite expensive, she really loves the quality of the display and probably wouldn't get anything else now. In fact we just had a chat about it last night and I told her once the 27" TBD gets a redesign ala the 2012 iMac style, we're going to have to upgrade

But since these display sizes have been out for sometime now, I would think Apple would start dropping prices on these soon. They used to constantly do that before with the older design.

 

[MetzoPaino]

How could I have missed this? You're absolutely right. I do audio work too and I just mentioned in the last page that it wouldn't be a deal break for me because I was thinking of just media files for playback (iTunes library). But yes, I'm going to run programs like Logic Pro and Ableton Live so I completely forgot about my sample libraries lol. And I've always used a 7200 rpm drive for that. However, could the slower rpm possibly be offset since it's internal and using a SATA interface?

Also, an alternative would be to get a 7200 rpm external drive with firewire or USB 3.0 (since iMac now supports it), or better, if you'd like to match the bandwidth of SATA, you could get a Thunderbolt drive. And depending on your sample library, a Thunderbolt SSD would be the ultimate external solution. That might be a bit expensive though.

Anyway, I'll have to consider this now.

I'm waiting for people to get their Mac Mini's with Fusion Drives so that tests and benchmarks can be posted because they have the same speed as the 21" iMac. Maybe all the individual audio samples that I'm using of an library will be moved onto the SSD (because the whole library couldn't fit onto the SSD), and it will be just like using an SSD. Unfortunately I don't think anyone will test this anytime soon.

SATA is nothing new right? My 2008 MacBook Pro has the same SATA speeds as a modern one? (I realise that the HDDs themselves have gotten faster making new 5400rpm drives better in certain situations than old 7200rpm drives).

I'd really rather not have to buy an external Thunderbolt or USB3 drive to house all my music projects on because I want things to be inside the iMac. Plus the price of such a thing might make it so I may as well bump to the 27".

 

[Icaras]

I'd really rather not have to buy an external Thunderbolt or USB3 drive to house all my music projects on because I want things to be inside the iMac. Plus the price of such a thing might make it so I may as well bump to the 27".

Yea, this is how I feel too. I want everything inside my iMac as well. I want as few things dangling from it as possible. And you're right, with a price of a fast external, you could just go up to the 27" in price.

I would love to see Fusion drive benchmarks.

 

[ljonesj]

So you're saying that Apple couldn't include a 7200 rpm drive in the 21.5" because they are too big (3.5")? That would make sense. I think the 1TB Fusion drive will be just fine, as I already have an external 4TB thunderbolt drive. To be honest, with the redesign of the iMac and the thinness, I don't know if opening it up and tinkering with it would be such a good idea. I think you're best off just BTO'ing to your liking and calling it a day. As you said, the Fusion drive should make writing/reading data almost unnoticeable (because flash SSD beats regular SSD) and you get the added benefit of higher capacity. I highly doubt Apple would give us a BTO option for a 256GB stand-alone SSD in the 21.5". I don't know man, I guess I'll just have to wait until both iMac models are present in store, and then I'll make a decision from there. However, I really feel like a better GPU in the 27" (although great for gaming), will increase the machine's propensity for thermal failure because those GPUs generate so much heat, and knowing me, I tend to get into extended gaming sessions once I really get into a game. I would hate for something to fail, especially after the first year.

there are 720rpm laptop drives my momentus xt drive from seagate is one of them for my macbook pro but i cant tell a difference between the 5400 in my mac min and the 7200 rpm myself

 

[Apple souce]

going for the high end 21.5" just because of the fusion drive BTO option. Watched a few vids on youtube comparing ssd vs 7200rpm hdd vs 5400rpm hdd and im convinced that the fusion drive is the right choice. It just sounds silly getting such a good computer with a very slow hdd.

 

[driftless]

I probably will have to go down an Apple store to take look first before deciding.

But i guess I really need the performance.

How much ram do you guys think will be best if i will be working on several programs at a time like Photoshop (large files), Illustrator, InDesign.

Will any other hardware in the system that would improve the performance according to my intended usage?

For CS, particularly PS, 16GB RAM really helps. A SSD helps as well so a Fusion drive might be ideal.

 

[conner954]

going for the high end 21.5" just because of the fusion drive BTO option. Watched a few vids on youtube comparing ssd vs 7200rpm hdd vs 5400rpm hdd and im convinced that the fusion drive is the right choice. It just sounds silly getting such a good computer with a very slow hdd.

Same here. I'm really looking forward to seeing how well the Fusion Drive works. Do you think there will be some sort of way to "turn off the fusion drive" if I wanted to and use them separately?

 

[Apple souce]

Same here. I'm really looking forward to seeing how well the Fusion Drive works. Do you think there will be some sort of way to "turn off the fusion drive" if I wanted to and use them separately?

Nobody knows for sure, we'll have to wait for reviews on the fusion drive which should start popping out shortly since it's already available on the mac mini.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm still concerned about the graphics card. You can't order better than 512 on the 21" and I see that as a problem. I mostly use my Xbox 360 for gaming but would have liked the option. I really can't stretch to the 27" top spec. The base 27" won't give me any better options, other than I wouldn't have to pay apples insane RAM upgrade prices. I'm seriously looking for a top 27" refurb 2011 at the moment. It's so difficult to know what to do.

 

[MagicThief83]

I'm still concerned about the graphics card. You can't order better than 512 on the 21" and I see that as a problem.

This is exactly how I feel! I sold my PS3 and HDMI monitor in preparation for the iMac, as I intended to use the iMac for both computing and gaming needs (casual...not really hardcore). It upsets me that Apple skimps on the GPU options for the 21.5" iMac. What Apple should've done is make the GTX 660M in the base 27", the GPU for the high-end 21.5", and couple it with a GB of VRAM. Had they done this, then my dilemma would've been solved and I would've snatched up the 21.5" the moment it's available for order on Apple's website. Instead, they offer the GT 650M (which to be fair, ranks the highest in its class for a mobile mid-range Kepler GPU, and it actually performs well) with a measly 512MB VRAM...what the hell!!! I'm really annoyed because I have someone willing to purchase my MBA and I really would've liked to get the 21.5" in November. However, I may be forced to delay the sale if I wait until December for the 27", which I really don't want to because I would like an iMac as soon as possible.

 

[MagicThief83]

In plus, I'm estimating a high-end 27" with a GTX 680MX, upgraded i7, 16GB RAM, and 1TB Fusion drive, to run somewhere around $3000-$3500. I'm simply not willing to pay that much now. My last PC was an Alienware M17x laptop with all the bells & whistles for gaming (16GB RAM and two Radeon HD 5870M GPUs), and it cost me a little over $3200. I didn't fully utilize it for gaming being that I had a PS3 as well. I felt it to be a waste of money and I don't want to make the same mistake. However, being that the iMac will become my primary gaming machine, I want something that could handle last-gen games as well current-gen games, and would like to future proof it as much as possible, because I plan on having this machine for a good number of years to come.

 

[APPLE-FANATIC]

I think I will be going with the 21.5" as well. This will be my first iMAC, I have used everything else by MAC except their desktop and Mini. Anyone have any tips on BTO? I would think the 1TB Fusion and i7 would be great updates to max the unit out, so it stays current for a few year?

I will use this when in my home office for:
1. Email
2. Video/Music Streaming
3. Internet Surfing
4. Microsoft Office
5. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote
6. Some iMovie activities, but not often.

I was at an Apple store today, and my god the 27" current model is HUGE!! I think it would make me dizzy even if the future model is thinned out and I have 2 other suspended monitors attached side by side on my office desk. I am assuming the 27" is for all the gamers and people who edit movies frequently?

Any advice helps! Thanks guys!

Oh, BTW, anyone have "leaked" dates for the 21.5" release?

 

[rpg51]

... and my god the 27" current model is HUGE!! I think it would make me dizzy

You would probably adjust. I know I have adjusted to the TBD. Gorgeous.

But, I am picking up a 21.5 refurb which will fit well in my den. Very nice computers.

 

[Lynn Belvedere]

I don't know what to do . I will be using this computer for the next 4-5 years and I don't want to spend more than 2k for everything (applecare, taxes, ram etc).

My new iMac will be for light-medium tasks: storing my work files (word docs for copy editing and PR), playing the sims 3, storing family photos and my Rosetta Stone language packs.

Bottom line, I'm either getting the 21.5 iMac 2012 or a maxed out 2011 21.5 or 27. I can't shake the nerves that I have about buying a first gen computer.

If you are expecting this computer to last for 5 years, it's a no-brainer to get the 2012 model. I wouldn't want to be using USB 2.0 5 years from now.

I would also make sure you get 16 GB of RAM, because 5 years is a very long time and OSX probably won't be able to run properly on 8GB 4-5 years from now. Look at it this way: the 2007 iMac came with only 1GB of RAM and the 2012 comes with 8GB. So in only 5 years, RAM increased by 800%.

 

[MagicThief83]

I think I will be going with the 21.5" as well. This will be my first iMAC, I have used everything else by MAC except their desktop and Mini. Anyone have any tips on BTO? I would think the 1TB Fusion and i7 would be great updates to max the unit out, so it stays current for a few year?

I will use this when in my home office for:
1. Email
2. Video/Music Streaming
3. Internet Surfing
4. Microsoft Office
5. Pages, Numbers, and Keynote
6. Some iMovie activities, but not often.

I was at an Apple store today, and my god the 27" current model is HUGE!! I think it would make me dizzy even if the future model is thinned out and I have 2 other suspended monitors attached side by side on my office desk. I am assuming the 27" is for all the gamers and people who edit movies frequently?

Any advice helps! Thanks guys!

Oh, BTW, anyone have "leaked" dates for the 21.5" release?

Yeah, the 21.5" will be my first iMac and I agree, the 27" is massive, too massive, and I really just don't need all that screen real estate. I'm a little bummed out about the GPU configurations in the 21.5", but I'm no hardcore gamer, and I think I'll definitely adjust to that.

----------

I don't know what to do . I will be using this computer for the next 4-5 years and I don't want to spend more than 2k for everything (applecare, taxes, ram etc).

My new iMac will be for light-medium tasks: storing my work files (word docs for copy editing and PR), playing the sims 3, storing family photos and my Rosetta Stone language packs.

Bottom line, I'm either getting the 21.5 iMac 2012 or a maxed out 2011 21.5 or 27. I can't shake the nerves that I have about buying a first gen computer.

The 2012 iMac is not a 1st-gen computer. The technology is essentially the same, save for the redesign which improved the screen display and structure. Unlike retina, I think you don't have much to worry about the 2012 iMac. Don't waste your money on the 2011, especially, now that the 2012 is out.

 

[rpg51]

We'll see. My prediction - a 2011 iMac with 8 gig and ssd installed will last me 5 years easily and no troubles running future operating systems whatsoever.

That is the choice though. You are right about that.

 

[APPLE-FANATIC]

We'll see. My prediction - a 2011 iMac with 8 gig and ssd installed will last me 5 years easily and no troubles running future operating systems whatsoever.

That is the choice though. You are right about that.

On the 21.5" iMac 2012, can an SSD be installed after purchase or does all of this need to be done via BTO from Apple only? I wish one of their options for the fusion drive consisted of 256gb, Im afraid it will be only 128gb