Why all the angst against Apple lately?

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by FakeWozniak, Sep 20, 2009.

  1. FakeWozniak macrumors 6502

    FakeWozniak

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    #1
    The best theory I can imagine is something akin to moving from the West Coast to the East Coast. People will complain when their environment changes. It's just a matter of the size of the group complaining and who will listen.

    For example, for the last decade, most people were on Windows for one reason or another. Anyone that didn't like the price, closed system nature, obscurity, etc. of Macintosh would have gone to Windows. A few brave folks might have tried Linux, but that was for the extremely self sufficient.

    For whatever reason, we now see Macintosh marketshare up about 5% from 10 years ago. With that 5%, 10s of millions of users have switched. These users were likely comfortable with the Windows environment at one time, but for some reason, they switched. Since the cost of change to Macintosh was large (new machine, new OS, new software, education time), it would be reasonable to conclude it was something negative toward Windows. Since Apple has always cost more, the reasons must be environmental. Basically, Windows sucked bad enough to change to the more expensive Macintosh environment.

    In my experience, most people will complain when changing environments. These changes are not always chosen by the user, but can also be decided by a corporate IT group. I remember when I was forced to go from a true Unix development environment to a Windows development. It took time to get used to the new diggs and I complained a lot. I couldn't complain to the Windows folks, since they were used to the nuances so I had to complain to the Unix folks that had to switch too, just like me. This is just like Windows users that switched, now complaining in the Apple forums. If they complained in the Windows forums, they'd get an "I told you so", and nobody likes that.

    And the Windows forums don't want to listens to these Windows to Macintosh transition pains, so they go to MacRumors among others. There'll be no sympathy for people who deserted the Windows platform. We, as accustomed Macintosh users, just need to let them get it out until they get as comfortable with the new environment. Maybe we need to remind them they decided to switch, or remind them what they left.

    Last thought about those new Macintosh users. Remember that 5% is like 10s of millions, so you are bound to get a LOT of whining.

    Thoughts?

    FakeWoz
     
  2. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #2
    Personally? I'm very quick to complain about Apple. Why's that? Simple: I believed that when I was paying $2200 for my Macbook Pro, that not only was I getting a professional machine, but that I would also be getting professional support with a world class warranty.

    I was one with the RDF, and I didn't mind. Heck, I even tried telling myself that the KP's I was getting were no more frequent then on my old laptop. In truth, it was about the same, but nothing like the "amazing OS X reliability" that everyone always talked about. I didn't care, it was an Apple, and the RDF was at work.

    A year ago, Apple ended that fantasy by trying to charge me over $1000 to fix my in-warranty computer. Once you loose the RDF, you never get it back.

    A few months ago, Microsoft was giving away Windows 7 RC, which I installed on my computer. It's sexy, it's customizable, and it doesn't have the dock. I haven't had any horrid Windows errors that everyone complains about, and so when it came time to go back to college, I decided not to take my MBP with me. I would rather lend it to my girlfriend so she can play the Sims 3 on it, than deal with Applecare again.

    So now I have a netbook that cost me $285 from Dell (for comparison, that's the cost of a hard drive from Apple), and it's great for my portable needs, and I have a desktop I've put about $500 into, and it works great for all of my gaming needs. I don't understand how I could spend $2200 on another MBP anymore, they're just not worth the money.

    So if Apple does something dumb, I'm not going to be an Apple apologist, and I'll tell it like it is. The RDF is gone for me, and seeing how blinded I was by it, I don't see why I should propagate that sort of blindness.
     
  3. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    Sunny, Southern California
    #3
    Well at least you live up to your name Jaded..... :)
     
  4. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

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    Jun 27, 2007
    #4
  5. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #5
    I have no idea what your circumstances are, but I'd bet that there is a lot that you are not saying. I have used AppleCare since 1991. In all of this time, I have nothing but high praise for it.
     
  6. KeriJane macrumors 6502a

    KeriJane

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Location:
    ЧИКАГО!
    #6
    Why all the Anti-Apple Rants?

    Hello.

    I'm relatively new to Mac, using this Mac Pro 1.1 for about a year and a half.

    A bit of history: I've been using PC computers since 1993 and DOS/ Win 3.1
    I've even built a couple of my own for NLE duty when nothing suitable was easily available. The latest and best was a Core2Duo/P35 system with Hardware RAID, HD3850 video, six hard drives, etc in a Lian-Li case. It was very good actually. An Apple 23" Cinema Display was my last addition to it.
    What happened? Vista. Amongst other things, I got really tired of continually re-activating Vista every time I made a minor change to something.


    So, being really impressed with the Cinema Display, I bought a Mac Pro floor model for a song when the 8-core ones came out.
    It's a fantastic, powerful, wonderful computer. By far the best I've ever used or seen.
    It renders video insanely fast. The FW800 works great with LaCie external drives, etc... everything Just Works.
    It's Quiet. It's Stable. It looks great and is incredibly well constructed, even better than a Lian-Li PC case. OSX took a little getting used to but I did it.

    So.... having what I consider to be the best computer I've ever seen, I naturally go to my electronics forum (BadCaps), tell everyone about it and... get all manner of abuse!

    The Chorus sings out: "You FOOL! - I could build a WAY FASTER and BETTER IN EVERY WAY computer than a Mac Pro for $500!" or whatever.
    When you try to point out that a dual-Xeon Server board alone is that much and that the total cost of the components is close to Apple's list price they call me a liar and a fangirl!

    They HATE the Mighty Mouse, which I adore.

    They call the excellent Cinema Display a complete ripoff and Apple ought to be sued for Fraud when they could get a way better monitor for $300 tops.

    They claim that OSX is a weak, totally lame ripoff of an OS that's more susceptible to Viruses that Windows! :confused:

    They've called me Ignorant, Stupid, a Liar and a Fangirl.

    All because I happened to say: "I've tried out this Mac for awhile and like it a lot and am really impressed with it."

    Why all the Anti-Apple Rants?
    I never called them Stupid or Liars or Rude or Ignorant.
    Which they apparently are.
    Nor have I ever made fun of or put down their computers.

    I don't take it personally because I know they're just Jealous ;)

    Have Fun,
    Keri


    PS. I jokingly called one of them an MS Operative complete with "JUST KIDDING, OK?" (after he said that Vista DIDN'T "Bomb") and he took it very, very seriously and to heart.
    Sheesh! They can dish it out but can't take it.
     
  7. PeterQC macrumors 6502a

    PeterQC

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    Jun 30, 2008
    #7
    RDF? What is that?
     
  8. NoSmokingBandit macrumors 68000

    NoSmokingBandit

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    Apr 13, 2008
    #8
    Its the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field.
    Also goes by the name "sonic wall of lies."
     
  9. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #9
    Here's the full story.
    Long story short, a slight dent will void your entire warranty, including things that Apple has already acknowledged as needing replacement, and the only way to fix it is to pay Apple $1259. At the time, the same model MBP's cost $1299 on the refurb store.

    Yep! ;)
     
  10. kate-willbury macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2009
    #10
    for me its not a transition at all. i continue to use both systems. i use my macbook for casual internet stuff/watching movies etc while i use my desktop pc for serious work. overall i still prefer windows 7 over snow leopard though.
     
  11. mac2x macrumors 65816

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    Sep 19, 2009
    #11
    As if Micro$oft is as pure as the driven snow... :rolleyes:
     
  12. mac2x macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    #12
    The way I read your story, it was more than a "slight dent". Sounded like you fell off a bike with it or something. That could certainly cause significant internal damage, even with the machine off.
     
  13. thejadedmonkey macrumors 604

    thejadedmonkey

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pa
    #13
    Bike or not, there's no reason they should not be replacing parts that I had asked them to make a note about since the first day I got the machine. Parts that were not broken, and could not have possibly had anything to do with a fall off of a cliff.

    Then, there's the fact that I spent $35 of my own money while Apple wanted $1200...

    I would never use Applecare again, to the point where I would go to BestBuy and buy their coverage to avoid dealing with Applecare. The lady I talked to was rude, and a I understand that the customer is not "always right", but I don't spend well over $2000 and then expect to be treated like crap.
     
  14. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #14
    So you dented the computer and then expected Apple to pay for the product that you damaged? Really? That is why you are so pissed at Apple....?

    And then they fix it and you are still pissed? Really? Wow.
     
  15. SactoGuy18 macrumors 68020

    SactoGuy18

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA USA
    #15
    Unfortunately, a lot of Mac users hate the Mighty Mouse, too. Small wonder why Logitech sells a LOT of mouse pointers to Mac users. I recently upgraded from a Logitech MX500 to the new M500 model and I especially love the new, ultra-fast scroll wheel function. :)
     
  16. ss957916 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    #16
    After a few problems with MS, I moved over to Apple in 2005 - and couldn't recommend them enough. I loved my Mac, loved what it did, how it did it and would be amazed whenever I saw someone on a PC.

    However, in the last couple of years I've become massively fed-up with Apple for the following main reasons:

    - My first PowerBook had two new batteries and finished its life with the screen just going altogether (after less than two years).

    - iPhone having the same form factor from 1st gen to 3rd gen is a really poor show - I have a 3GS but it feels just like my 1st gen iPhone. Pah!

    - Airport Express conked out after 13 months - £70 down the drain.

    - Awful Snow Leopard (I've now downgraded)

    - The whole 'buy something on Monday and oop! Apple have brought out a new range so now your new unit is outdated' thing has become very tiring. A friend is still waiting to buy Apple TV for fear of a new one coming out any day.

    - Current MBP (which cost £1550) has a wifi problem.

    - Getting customer support is not easy. The whole making appts at the genius bar thing is very frustrating. With no other product do I need to make an appointment to go back the shop and complain something doesn't work!

    These are just my opinions and things that piss me off, but it's enough for me to no longer recommend Apple. I can also safely say that I won't look exclusively at Apple products any more. I've bought a PowerBook and two MBPs and none of them have been a 'pro' machine. I'll seriously look at some cheap thing running Windows 7 - at least then when it goes tits-up I'll only be £399 out of pocket.

    For Apple to be losing me after just four years surely isn't a good thing. I think they're resting on their laurels and MS are coming up fast.
     
  17. NoSmokingBandit macrumors 68000

    NoSmokingBandit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    #17
    Did anyone say they were or are you just looking for a reason to bash MS?

    :rolleyes:


    To be fair, a large amount of mac users also hate the MM. Its just a terrible excuse for a $50 mouse.
    The ACDs generally are a ripoff. Dell offers the same panels in a lot of their monitors at a much lower price, so to get the ACD you are just paying more for the aluminum case and the apple logo.
     
  18. mac2x macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    #18
    I think most warranties on just about anything don't cover damage that's the user's fault. If the computer had issues before you fell with it, it is you the customer's responsibility to have Apple fix it. That's covered under Applecare. However, once you damage it yourself, why should they fix it?
     
  19. mac2x macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    #19
    No one's perfect, and all that rubbish about a "Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field" conveniently overlooks a lot distortion on Micro$oft's part. Namely their stranglehold on the market with an OS that's substandard. Why do you think Apple's marketshare has been growing slowly but surely??? I hope MS has taken notice and will improve their platform by (not holding my breath though) rewriting Windows to eliminate old technology like the registry and DOS support. Apple's writing PPC support out of OS X, so why can't MS deprecate their old technologies too?
     
  20. pdjudd macrumors 601

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    Location:
    Plymouth, MN
    #20
    You really cannot compare the to. Microsoft sells and bends over backwards to ensure that enterprise customers will buy their pricey volume licenses. One such requirements that these companies have is that they require, no, demand compatibility with software that often times is never updated (due to internal development or its a really custom thing). That's Microsoft's business strategy - to sell software. Their niche is enterprise. Apple's consumer focused business model does not have such a high requirement.

    The overall hate that Apple brings is one that is similar to religion. While I do not wish to engage is such a debate, people have an almost religious zeal reguarding their platform of coice. It exists on both sides and whenever a small person (Apple) is popular the established majority doesn't like it and think that something is rotten in Denmark. And like religion, people take offensives very personally,
     
  21. djellison macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Location:
    Pasadena CA
    #21
    A couple of things

    The shift to Intel has made it more simple than ever to compare, apple-to-apple (pun intended) the value of Apple hardware. People try to defend it, but sorry, it's just not defensible. It's over priced. Fact.

    The iPhone. revolutionary? Yup. Flawed? HELL yes.

    The Mac Book Air - never has form dominated over function so badly.

    Snow Leopard - that's £25 I can't have back - and, hand on heart, I can't tell the damn difference. Indeed, on a 2.2Ghz MBP - it's made it slower - not faster.

    Shift to Mobile Me? What a bloody disaster that was.

    The treatment of apps-store developers is utterly unforgiveable.

    iTunes 9. Bloatier, slower and again, no new features I'm noticing.

    iPod Touch...no camera. But they fit one in a damn iPod NANO? What the hell?

    Hang on - where did my Firewire port go? That's right - Apple took it out of the Macbook. Then wrote 'Pro' on in crayon, and put the firewire port BACK IN, after telling us all we didn't actually need firewire anyway.

    CRAP - there is no other word for it - CRAP screen quality on those interim UBMB's. £300 netbooks have better displays.

    DL-DVI adaptor for Mini DP machines. It's £70 to plug your monitor in. and IT DOES NOT WORK.

    What's that on the floor? ANOTHER chuck of plastic falling off a plastic Macbook.

    Apple have done a lot of things over the past couple of years that are very very worthy of criticism.

    I tolerate these because Keynote (the single 'killer app' for OSX for what I do) does one thing, that powerpoint will not. I want ONE laptop. And so it's a Mac because of keynote. That's it. Without it, I would switch back in a second.

    But I can't stand the ever increasing volume of Apple fanboys...

    Claiming the above problems don't exist
    Claiming the above problems are NOT problems becuase Micro$oft (LMFAO I swapped a S for a $ how cool) do the same or worse
    Claiming that one OS is 'better' than the other
    Lying - there is no other word for it - LYING about competing products, or the abilities and value of Apple products.

    So - you have a double whammy effect. Apple doing some very annoying stuff, and the fanboys being exceptionally annoying defending it and going on the offensive against other products.

    It's very very very easy to really hate Apple and it's fanboys at the moment.
     
  22. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    Oct 26, 2008
    #22
    I bought an iphone with OS 3.0 on it it was flawe but it was functional.
    I had no desire to suffer the issues 3.1 has introduced but yet Apple is forced me to do so. Now my battery life is worse, I am suffering the coma (4 times now) and my wifi is worse than before.
    Thank you apple....
     
  23. mac2x macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    #23
    I think it's pretty obvious that "djellison" is a Micro$oft fanboy.

    No one but a complete fool would insist that any platform is perfect. There's some things I don't like about OS X, but overall it performs better and is much more reliable than Windows. Never once have I had a crash worse than just one application. That's because it's Unix. Back in my Windows days? I was always having to do hard shutdowns because something crashed, and took the whole system down with it. XP was better, as it seemed to be able to recover itself most of the time after you killed the offending process in Task Manager, but still it sometimes take 5 minutes of waiting to even be able to get Task Manager to come up! That never happens in Unix. [edit] Well, it's pretty uncommon for something to go haywire. Thanks belvdr! :)

    I have no experience with the iPhone, so I can't pass any judgements there.
     
  24. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    Oct 9, 2006
    #24
    I think the problem is coming from the fact that apple RDF is falling apart very quickly and it starting to show. Apple now is getting hammer by this fact so all the problem they been getting away with are starting to come out and people are starting to complain. Apple is heading into the mainstream and when that happens no more RDF.
     
  25. belvdr macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    #25
    When NFS hangs, you'll soon experience goofiness in Unix. :) "Never" is a bad choice here; it implies perfection. While better, it does happen on Unix.

    Either way, I only dumped Windows to give my wife a nice photo solution with an easy interface.
     

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