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iPhone 16 Pro Max Why all the negativity?
- Thread starter Markgnyc2
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For the most part, entitlement. We all make the choice not to buy an almost infinite number of goods per day. How often do you need to log into a message board to tell people about it? And also, there are a lot of people that are mad that a $1k phone doesn't have a $10k build quality, which is nonsense.
There are always legitimate complaints that users will have, and those should be addressed, one way or another. But those get buried beneath the other garbage.
There are always legitimate complaints that users will have, and those should be addressed, one way or another. But those get buried beneath the other garbage.
1. The 16 is one of the least incremental upgrades over its predecessor in quite some time. Sure, if you are upgrading from a 10-year-old phone, your mind is going to be blown.
2. Apple Intelligence was supposed to be the "big thing" this year and it's not even available at the new iPhone/iOS launch. It's probably a year out from being fully baked. iOS 18.1 will be a sample of what's to come.
Have been running iOS 18 (now 18.1) betas since day one. No camera issues. Occasionally a web page will “jump”. Now on 18.1 DB 5 and everything running smoothly. I’m using a 2022 IpP 12.9”, an iP Mini 6, and iP 14 PM.
We(my family) are on the “upgrade“ every year plan. It’s easier to write off for taxes. Of course, an iPhone 16 pro max is 1 better than an iPhone 15 pro max.😁
Because lots of people love coming to these forums and complaining wildly. It defines the overall tone of so many threads here. And I'm not saying we should all be fanboys (because that word is often thrown at any commenters who are even somewhat positive), because we shouldn't. But criticism and critiques of hardware, software and business practices can be accomplished without personal attacks and unrelenting negativity.
It has gotten to the point that it is the default tone in most threads, and they can quickly devolve into arguments. It feels like the people who want to have a civil discussion are far outnumbered by the people who only want to verbally burn down anyone else's point of view here. Just look at how often forum members are suspended for crossing the line in the comments.
This week it's a new iPhone. In a month or two it'll be M4 Macs that will no doubt have people complaining bitterly. In the meantime some people will attack most any other thing that MR posts, whether it's a charger or a case or a software update. And don't even dare to mention the Vision Pro 😬
So even when there is a post that is simply honestly critical of some new piece of hardware, it can easily get lost in a stream of negativity-for-its-own-sake in the rest of the thread. The tone does a disservice to us being able to have a conversation.
It has gotten to the point that it is the default tone in most threads, and they can quickly devolve into arguments. It feels like the people who want to have a civil discussion are far outnumbered by the people who only want to verbally burn down anyone else's point of view here. Just look at how often forum members are suspended for crossing the line in the comments.
This week it's a new iPhone. In a month or two it'll be M4 Macs that will no doubt have people complaining bitterly. In the meantime some people will attack most any other thing that MR posts, whether it's a charger or a case or a software update. And don't even dare to mention the Vision Pro 😬
So even when there is a post that is simply honestly critical of some new piece of hardware, it can easily get lost in a stream of negativity-for-its-own-sake in the rest of the thread. The tone does a disservice to us being able to have a conversation.
Every year the same, people complaining about this or that… yet they’ll still buy the new phones a lot of the time.
I think we just live in a world where people love to complain these days, instead of appreciating the technological brilliance we have in a pocketable device!
I think we just live in a world where people love to complain these days, instead of appreciating the technological brilliance we have in a pocketable device!
The people that frequent this forum, it can be confidently stated, do not at all represent the average person. Like most internet forums for "enthusiasts" it becomes a sort of weird echo chamber of extreme opinions at times.
Reality is smartphones are mature technology, and there probably won't be another exciting innovation for a long time, maybe even in our lifetimes. Today's smartphone has more in common with a fridge or a microwave or a washing machine than it does to cutting edge tech of the day.
Reality is smartphones are mature technology, and there probably won't be another exciting innovation for a long time, maybe even in our lifetimes. Today's smartphone has more in common with a fridge or a microwave or a washing machine than it does to cutting edge tech of the day.
Apple flagship phones are not that flagship compared to Chinese phones. Apple is being cheap, that’s all.
Beta testing on existing hardware. Not enough beta testing on new hardware - which is where the problems are - on iPhone 16s exclusively. This is not an iOS18 issue. It is an iOS18+iphone16 issue.
It’s a matter of degree. New products = risk of unknowns - of course and that’s a given. The problem is that over 24 years of using apple products - other than a few notable exceptions, most of the first 15-17 years of buying apple products they were pretty solid. The last 3-5 years has been steadily more buggy on first release. And I’ve been a beta tester for iOS and macOS for many years intermittently so am well aware of the army of us that help with that process. But given the level of innovation has inevitably slowed as the iPhone and other phones mature as a technology, the stability and quality on release of these products should be improving, not deteriorating. And fundamentals like camera or screen not working as expected smacks of lack of testing in the field. These are not minor functions. Camera is arguably the most used function, and screen is literally the most important hardware user interface component of the whole phone.
My point remains- for a $2700 AUD product on release I expect better. If it was $1500 or less then yes it’s possibly acceptable to have had a few glitches /corners cut to save QA development costs prior to release. But when it’s that level of price pitched at top end of market, then the quality has to match the price being charged. I don’t believe this apple iphone16Pro matches its price point on quality.
Don’t get me wrong, as a 24 year veteran of buying apple products and having bought probably close to 100+ hardware products in our family over that time I’m not giving up on apple, nor am I naive to apple quality, but I believe they have dropped the ball this time and need to re-focus on the customer experience a little more than on the sales and marketing timing.
I have an iPhone 16Pro with iOS 18. It is buggy as all heck. We have 4 other phones in our household. -iPhone 13,14 15. All with iOS 18 and all working fine. This is an iPhone 16+ios18 issue. It is not affecting previous model phones. Just the new one.
In 24 years of using apple products this is the first time I’ve put the effort into making a profile and lodging a complaint on apple products - because the issue is so dumb that I cannot believe apple didn’t know about it, or that they have a production line flaw that they missed. That should say enough about why this is raising issues. I can’t say about others but I’m not a serial complainer, I fully accept bugs will appear in new products - but not to this level.
I think it's par for the course with tech snobbery. "Oh, these improvements don't impress me."
I'm old enough to have seen it for years and years.
I'm old enough to have seen it for years and years.
I'm with you 100%. There is something seriously wrong with some people. While I do feel that Apple is milking it under Tim Cook, and needs a return to a more concise product line with prices that are somewhat reasonable, the way some people take this to extremes is bizarre and unhealthy and inaccurate.
As am I. I am always impressed with tech development having come from the days of IBM/PC DOS and 80186 PCs. Then Acorn RISCOS and Motorola/Panasonic 1st gen mobiles, to apple computers on Steve Jobs’ second go at the helm, and then to the first gen iPhone, and now to 16th gen iPhone. Along the way used PCs, android, Linux, sailfishOS, blackberry etc. and dedicated cameras from canon/nikon/leica etc.
Geez I am old!!! Where was this going. I forget. Time for another nap. Lol.
And I would like to add that the new colder battery back on iPhone 16 Pro is fantastic and very much an improvement compared to my IP 15 ProMax which sometimes felt like it was hot enough to fry eggs on. Thank you apple for that heat management improvement. That alone is tech development that is worth paying for. Now just get the camera and glitchy screen fixed then it’s perfect.
If the general population hated Apple as much as the majority here seem to, they would be broke and out of business by now. The negativity and criticism toward Apple here is overwhelming, and anybody who says anything to contradict it is labeled a "fanboi".
I’d like a phone that has a 1 month battery life, is under 70gm in weight, and is virtually indestructible. Other than the Nokia 3310 - I remain disappointed 😂😂😂
I'm one of the people who like to upgrade every year and I can't make a strong case for this one. There are, however, some things from a technical perspective I do like.
1) The newest 5G modem. It will be capable of faster speeds and should run more efficiently than last year's.
2) New battery and metal casing surround (on 16 Pro).
3) Better passive cooling/ventilation should help keep temps down under load and phone cooler in the hand.
4) Upgraded cameras.
5) A18 Pro chip which has shown on paper some nice gains and should also be more efficient.
With that said, I do believe the 17 series will have all these and more to give me a better upgrade coming from the 15 Pro Max. There's also rumors of a new "slim" line of iPhones that might be interesting. The 16 seems more like a "15S" than anything which is not a bad thing necessarily but I'm of the mindset to sit this one out.
1) The newest 5G modem. It will be capable of faster speeds and should run more efficiently than last year's.
2) New battery and metal casing surround (on 16 Pro).
3) Better passive cooling/ventilation should help keep temps down under load and phone cooler in the hand.
4) Upgraded cameras.
5) A18 Pro chip which has shown on paper some nice gains and should also be more efficient.
With that said, I do believe the 17 series will have all these and more to give me a better upgrade coming from the 15 Pro Max. There's also rumors of a new "slim" line of iPhones that might be interesting. The 16 seems more like a "15S" than anything which is not a bad thing necessarily but I'm of the mindset to sit this one out.
For what it’s worth I agree with everything you said. I’m still in awe of the iPhone and how much I rely on it. I have an appreciation of the technology maybe because like you I remember when we didn’t have it.
People get stuck on the word innovation. I’m not sure when that became the yearly goal. I think the improvements are very impressive. Make a processor 10% faster in a year is great to me. Four hours more battery life since last year is fantastic.
I’m equally excited about the new software features every year. Yes I have my complaints about new features that I won’t use or features I’ve been waiting for. I try to remind myself that they are trying to please a billion customers. I likely am not always their target audience.
But there is always enough between the software and hardware upgrades every year to make me excited.
People get stuck on the word innovation. I’m not sure when that became the yearly goal. I think the improvements are very impressive. Make a processor 10% faster in a year is great to me. Four hours more battery life since last year is fantastic.
I’m equally excited about the new software features every year. Yes I have my complaints about new features that I won’t use or features I’ve been waiting for. I try to remind myself that they are trying to please a billion customers. I likely am not always their target audience.
But there is always enough between the software and hardware upgrades every year to make me excited.
Yeah I don't understand the hate for these phones. They are incremental upgrades, as they have been for many years now.
My first cellphone was a motorola flip in the mid 90's, thru some sony ericssons in the 2000's, and my first iPhone in 2008. I've owned 10 iPhones since, and nothing else. I used to upgrade every year at first, then every two, now its every 3 and possibly longer for my next phone after my 15 Pro max.
My first cellphone was a motorola flip in the mid 90's, thru some sony ericssons in the 2000's, and my first iPhone in 2008. I've owned 10 iPhones since, and nothing else. I used to upgrade every year at first, then every two, now its every 3 and possibly longer for my next phone after my 15 Pro max.
Apple was forced to adopt its own connector design from 2015?
I understand the media loves to sell us all on neat and tidy narratives, but this is exactly where all of this negativity comes from and continues to feed on itself in the online technology circles.
Statements like “EU forced Apple” instantly unmask those who are inside tech bubbles who only consume headlines from sites like this one or The Verge and always take their word at face value or as matter of fact.
”The most helpful feature” comes off as tech-centric and ignores dozens of meaningful updates in just the last 2-3 years since the 13 series and how regular people will actually benefit. (emergency sos, crash detection, satellite messaging, repairable back-glass)
Those who approach technology this way almost always cherry picks the one area where Apple holds back to dirty-up the greater impact happening, such as USB2 data speeds for the new connector on the non-Pro 15/16s which will never affect normal people.
The yearly “hype” cycle across tech is a self-defeating prophecy and creates this expectational debt. However these circles aren’t the best vibe right now, are increasingly out of touch with average users, and many seem to lack the context of how the progress of technology marches onward through many miles of baby steps, not giant leaps.
In the eyes of a regular user, we get a better device each year, and at the same price for quite some time now. I could get the iPhone 12 for $799 a couple of years back and now the much improved 16 for the same $799 which is now worth technically even less. As long as there’s no dramatic price hikes I’ll continue buying the devices that bring notable improvements to the areas I care about or if the older one stops working. Especially for the non-Pro iPhone buyers we don’t want the best phone each year, just the less crazily overpriced one (they all are and we deserve 120 Hz at this price), and this year it’s quite close to the Pro. It’s also a good year to buy the 15 if you don’t care about AI.
In the eyes of a tech enthusiast, I guess people want to be impressed and see Apple compete with other manufacturers who are much ahead in a handful of key aspects of the smartphone experience like charging, displays etc. but Apple is being cheap. They are masters of knowing what’s a dealbreaker to most, so they give us the essential stuff that would otherwise make you switch from the ecosystem lock-in, and omit a lot that isn’t exactly a dealbreaker to cheap out on the device. It creates a flagship with some weird omissions that you know could be better in a particular area, but they actively choose not to make it so.
In the eyes of a tech enthusiast, I guess people want to be impressed and see Apple compete with other manufacturers who are much ahead in a handful of key aspects of the smartphone experience like charging, displays etc. but Apple is being cheap. They are masters of knowing what’s a dealbreaker to most, so they give us the essential stuff that would otherwise make you switch from the ecosystem lock-in, and omit a lot that isn’t exactly a dealbreaker to cheap out on the device. It creates a flagship with some weird omissions that you know could be better in a particular area, but they actively choose not to make it so.
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I mean it's a bit of rose-tinted glasses to suggest that marketing is materially less genuine now than it was then. Jobs told you things were amazing, now Cook tells you things are amazing.