Why Apple needs to get sued for screen image retention

Discussion in 'iMac' started by roadkill401, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. roadkill401 macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    #1
    Anyone who went out and bought the new Retna 5K iMac in 2014, 2015 and likely later models needs to sue Apple for gross negligence in the design of that model. We are stuck with a defective product that is prone to screen image retention and Apple should be forced to pay us back.

    WHY? This is a design flaw and not the BS that Apple is pushing. This is not an image that is caused by the screen, but something else in the design or way that Apple implemented the graphics screen management.

    Try it out: There are some things that just do not make any sense.


    1. Give yourself a second vitual desktop and change the background colour of it to a medium gray. That way you can easily see any retained image.

    2. On either the main or vitual desktop screen, load up Safari and have it display a mostly white with some black or dark coloured areas.

    3. Hit the Shift Control Eject keys to turn off the screen. Go away for 3-4 hours. When you turn the screen back on, you will have image retention of the Safari window even though the screen was turned off and displaying nothing.

    WHY??


    4. Go to the main screen and assign a black and white checkerboard background.

    5. Close all open application so no program is on the screen. Leave the screen turned on for 3-4 hours. Then change the backgound back to medium gray. The only things that will have burn in are any of the desktop icons and the menu bar / doc. The background image doesn't leave image retention. Nor does the mouse icon.

    WHY??


    Those two items disprove that it is caused by what is displayed on the screen or a fault by the LG display as a display that is turned off should not get any image retention. Rather it is likely that the graphics display card is at fault. But Apple designed their own chip parts and made a hybrid ATI display card for the iMac. I think it is that display card that is a bad player and is causing the trouble inside the iMac. If an App window will cause retention but a background image doesn't clearly shows it has to be something other than the actual screen at play.
     
  2. MacDawg macrumors Core

    MacDawg

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #2
    Go for it and prove it in court
    That's your right, but you gotta make the case and make it stick
     
  3. dcpmark macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    #3
    Here you go.....go for it!

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  4. mmomega macrumors 68040

    mmomega

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Location:
    DFW, TX
    #4
    Fortunate that I haven't noticed this over the last 4 years. I have a couple 27" 5Ks.
     
  5. redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #5
    I get your frustration, and had to deal with this issue myself on my Late 2014 model. Sometime afterward Apple put up a support document suggesting a screensaver as a fix for a hardware issue that is visible during normal use, which is laughable. it saddens me to see their attitude and training regarding this specific issue is now worse than it was based on my experience with the Late 2014 I had over three years ago.

    So far, image retention hasn't been widespread enough to result in a lawsuit, and other forum members have indicated that newer panels (made in 2017 or later) are less likely to develop the issue. However, another display issue that can potentially affect most (if not all) recent iMac models has prompted a lawsuit.
     
  6. whosthis macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    #6
    Did that fix work or not? I think it basically means that retention is completely reversible. It is not a permanent "burn in".
     
  7. ThugFreak macrumors member

    ThugFreak

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2018
    Location:
    California
    #7
    Did anyone else get this?
    The trial begins on October 25, 2019


    Court-Directed Notice regarding Class Certification
    Shamrell, et al. v. Apple Inc. Class Litigation

    LEGAL NOTICE
    PLEASE READ THIS NOTICE CAREFULLY. IF YOU PURCHASED A NEW IPHONE 4 FROM JUNE 24, 2010 THROUGH OCTOBER 10, 2011 OR IPHONE 4S FROM OCTOBER 11, 2011 THROUGH SEPTEMBER 20, 2012 OR THE IPHONE 5 PRIOR TO APRIL 1, 2013 THROUGH MARCH 31, 2016, YOUR RIGHTS MAY BE AFFECTED BY PROCEEDINGS IN THIS LITIGATION.

    The purpose of this Notice is to inform you that your rights may be affected by proceedings in the lawsuit known as Shamrell, et al. v. Apple Inc., Case No. 37-2013-00055830-CU-PL-CTL, pending before the Honorable Ronald L. Styn of the Superior Court of San Diego County, Central Division (the "Court"). This Notice is given under California law and by order of the Court.
    What is this lawsuit about? The Fourth Amended Complaint ("Complaint") alleges that Apple Inc. sold the iPhone 4, iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 with defective sleep/wake (power) buttons and failed to disclose (or insufficiently disclosed) this defect to purchasers in violation of various California state laws. This action seeks relief for alleged claims of breach of warranty and alleged violations of the California Consumers Legal Remedies Act, the California Unfair Competition Law, the California Song-Beverly Act and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The Complaint seeks damages in the form of recovery of the cost to repair the broken sleep/wake button or the diminished value of the iPhone due to the broken sleep/wake button, along with restitution, injunctive and declaratory relief.

    Apple denies all of the allegations in the Complaint, and denies that Apple did anything improper or unlawful. Apple has asserted numerous affirmative defenses to the claims in this case.

    A trial to determine the merits of Plaintiffs' claims has not yet occurred. This matter is set for trial beginning on October 25, 2019.
    Are you included? If you are a California citizen who purchased a new iPhone 4, 4S or 5 from Apple or a third-party retailer and your sleep/wake button stopped working or worked intermittently during the first year after purchase for the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, or during the first three years after purchase for the iPhone 5, you may be a member of one or more of the classes.
    Are you not included? You are not a member of any class if Apple has already repaired the malfunctioning sleep/wake button on your device or provided you with a replacement device (including under the Repair Extension Program for the iPhone 5). You are not a member of the iPhone 5 class if you purchased your iPhone 5 device after April 1, 2013.
    By Court Order dated January 8, 2019, the Court certified this case to proceed on behalf of two Classes, defined as follows:iPhone 4 and 4S Class:All California citizens who purchased one or more iPhone 4 or 4S smartphones from Apple or a third-party retailer, from June 24, 2010 through October 10, 2011 for the iPhone 4, and from October 11, 2011 through September 20, 2012 for the iPhone 4S, and whose sleep/wake (power) button stopped working or worked intermittently during a one year period from date of purchase. Excluded are persons whose iPhone 4 or 4S was repaired or replaced by Apple due to a non-working sleep/wake button.iPhone 5 Class:All California citizens who purchased one or more iPhone 5 smartphones from Apple or a third-party retailer prior to April 1, 2013, and whose sleep/wake (power) button stopped working or worked intermittently during a three year period from date of purchase. Excluded are persons whose iPhone 5 was repaired or replaced by Apple due to a non-working sleep/wake button.
    The public version of the Complaint, the Court's class certification order and other documents related to this lawsuit can be accessed at www.powerbuttonclassaction.com.

    What are your options? If you are a member of one or both of the Classes, you have the right to stay in the Class or be excluded from the lawsuit.
    OPTION 1. Do Nothing. Remain a Member of the Class(es). If you do nothing, you are choosing to remain in the Class(es). It will cost you nothing to remain a member of the Class(es), and if any recovery is ultimately awarded by the judge or jury, you may receive a share of that recovery. However, if Apple prevails, you will not receive anything, and you will not be able to prosecute a separate claim against Apple arising out of these claims.

    If you elect Option 1, you need to do nothing at this time. You may receive a later notice advising you of the outcome of this case and your right to participate in any recovery, if any recovery is obtained. In addition, any member who does not request exclusion ("opt out") may, if the member so desires (but is not required to), enter an appearance through counsel. ANY JUDGMENT OBTAINED ON THE CLASS CLAIMS IN THIS ACTION, WHETHER FAVORABLE OR NOT, WILL BIND ALL CLASS MEMBERS WHO DO NOT OPT OUT OF THIS ACTION.
    OPTION 2. Exclude yourself from the lawsuit. Alternatively, you have the right not to be part of this lawsuit by excluding yourself or "opting out" of the Class(es). The Court will exclude from the Class(es) any person who timely requests exclusion. If you elect to opt out, you will not be bound by any judgment of the Court, and you retain your right to sue Apple for any individual claims you may have arising out of these issues. As a condition of opting out of the class, you will be unable to participate in any recovery that a judge or jury may award the Class(es) in this action. If you choose to exclude yourself from the lawsuit, you should decide soon whether to pursue your own case, because your claims are subject to statutes of limitations that set time limits for filing a lawsuit.
    IF YOU WISH TO EXCLUDE YOURSELF FROM THIS PROCEEDING, you must request exclusion in one of the following ways:
    1. Send an "Exclusion Request" in the form of a letter sent by U.S. mail, stating that you want to be excluded from Shamrell, et al. v. Apple Inc., Case No. 37-2013-00055830-CU-PL-CTL (San Diego Superior Court). Be sure to include your name, address, telephone number, email address, and signature. You must mail your Exclusion Request, postmarked by August 26, 2019, to: Shamrell et al. v. Apple Class Litigation, P.O. Box 404111, Louisville, KY 40233-4111.
    2. Send an Exclusion Request Form, available at www.powerbuttonclassaction.com by mail postmarked by August 26, 2019, to: Shamrell et al. v. Apple Class Litigation, P.O. Box 404111, Louisville, KY 40233-4111. Or, email your exclusion request form to Admin@powerbuttonclassaction.com by August 26, 2019.
    Who represents you? The Court has appointed ANTHONY SHAMRELL and DARYL RYSDYK to act as the class representatives for the iPhone 4/4S class and iPhone 5 class, respectively. The Court has also appointed several law firms to act as counsel for the Class ("Class Counsel"), including:

    DOYLE LOWTHER, LLP
    William J. Doyle, II.
    bill@doylelowther.com
    John L. Lowther
    john@doylelowther.com
    Chris W. Cantrell
    ccantrell@doylelowther.com
    4400 NE 77th Avenue, Suite 275
    Vancouver, WA 98662
    Tel: (360) 818-9320
    Fax: (360) 450-3116

    GOMEZ TRIAL ATTORNEYS
    John H. Gomez
    john@thegomezfirm.com
    Deborah S. Dixon
    ddixon@thegomezfirm.com
    655 West Broadway, Suite 1700
    San Diego, CA 92101
    Tel: (619) 237-3490
    Fax: (619) 237-3496

    You don't have to pay Class Counsel or anyone else to participate. If Class Counsel obtains money or benefits for one or both of the Classes, they will ask the Court for an award of fees and costs, which will be paid by Apple Inc. or from any money awarded to or recovered for the Class(es). However, any fee paid to Class Counsel must be approved by the Court.

    You do not have to use Class Counsel. You have the right to hire your own lawyer to appear in Court for you in this lawsuit; however, if you do, you are responsible for paying that lawyer.

    How do I find out more about this lawsuit? If you have any questions about either this lawsuit or this Notice, you may call or write to Class Counsel at the addresses provided above. Inquiries should not be directed to the Court.

    For more detailed information about this lawsuit, including the Complaint, the Court's class certification order and other documents, go to www.powerbuttonclassaction.com or call 1-855-336-4060 or contact Class Counsel above. It is possible that the trial date or other deadlines will change. Please check the website for updates on the status of the case and the schedule.

    This Notice has been approved and directed to be provided to Class Members by Court order dated February 22, 2019.

    DO NOT CONTACT THE COURT FOR ANY REASON.
     
  8. redheeler, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019

    redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #8
    Image retention will appear when something stays on the screen for 5-10 minutes. For example, the MacOS menu bar. After entering fullscreen mode in an app, a ghost image of the menu bar remains visible at the top of the screen and takes 5-10 minutes to fade away. It's not a permanent ghost image, but you will notice it occasionally when something stays on the screen for a long time (as is common with the MacOS menu bar, Dock or app toolbars) and then you switch to something else immediately afterward.

    The screensaver prevents a ghost image from being visible when you leave the computer and return to the lock screen, because the ghost image has a chance to fade away while it is running. But it cannot be used in the scenario mentioned above and is not a fix for the problem. The problem is hardware-based and in the LCD panel itself. It could be present right out of the box or take months or years of use to develop. (If the Mac is 5+ years old I many not care, and I have seen it on my Late 2006 iMac, so it's not an issue that is exclusive to the Retina models. But my Late 2014 model took only about six months for the issue to develop, and my 2012 rMBP had it bad right out of the box. Both instances were resolved through in-warranty display replacements, though on the 2014 the issue just kept returning on the new panels.)
     
  9. redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #9
    The OP did get a few things wrong. It's caused by the screen, not the GPU, and is not visible in software screenshots. The ghost image doesn't fade away (at least not as quickly) while the screen is off, hence it's visible when returning to the lock screen after turning the screen off (and not using a screensaver). Also, you shouldn't go looking for the issue with the checkerboard tests. It only becomes an issue if it's severe enough to notice during your normal use patterns or workflow.
     
  10. JonD25 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    #10
    Late 2014 iMac here and have noticed it steadily getting worse. Kinda feel powerless though since it's out of warranty and I feel like a trip to the Apple Store for them to check it out will only leave me without my main work machine and take up a lot of my time for them to tell me they can replace the screen at a cost I'm not really thinking is worth paying at this point, especially when I've heard from others how replacements exhibited the problem as well. Probably just going to try and sell it off for cheap or trade it in to Apple directly and get a MBP soon anyways, but I'd much prefer being able to sell it privately for full value rather than having to discount it for whoever would be interested in it anyways.
     
  11. mikehalloran macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Location:
    The Sillie Con Valley
    #11
    There are other threads where this issue has been cussed and discussed by loyalists who are convinced that the world is coming to an end over this.

    Perhaps the moderators can merge this thread with one of those.
     
  12. roadkill401 thread starter macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    #12
    I don't understand why if a screen is off, hense it would have either a low power, or no power going to it, would retain a ghost of an image for 8-10+ hours, where it is said that it should disapear in 5-10 minutes if the screen image changes?

    I have had time when I have tried to watch a movie on Netflix on the screen and had scenes that were displaying wrong as image retention became an issue. Like your watching a scente where it is supposed to be dimly lit, and there is an impossible bright spot in the screen where a ghost of the scene before is stuck on the screen.

    I have given up trying to do any photo editing on my iMac as you can't trust what you see is what is really there. If that isn't a clear shot at notice during your normal work flow. I have just religated the mac to 'that other computer' in the office as it cost more to fix it yet again, than it was to just move on to a better class of machine running Windows.
     
  13. roadkill401 thread starter macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    #13
    I question how anyone with a 2017 model would know how the screen was going to work in 3-4 years? They haven't been around long enough to tell if the screen is susceptible? I tend to think the screen issues are an awful lot like the butterfly keyboard where Apple will say it only happens in a small percentage but really it comes down to how many people just give up and live with the crap rather than complain.

    I didn't think that buying an iMac would have the functional lifespan of AppleCare and after that you are expected to just trash your investment and just buy a newer model. I don't own an iPhone and don't buy into that replace it every year mindset. It seems that Apple have decided to start in the same old model that Windows machines got into, where you make it only just good enough to last out 2-3 years and then throw away technology. At least he Windows machines are cheep enough that you can get away with it. I paid an excessive premium for this iMac for the 5K retina screen. The only option that I can see for this mac is to just buy a second screen that will be used for all critical display and the 27" retina screen is just a defective backup that you sort of don't care what it looks like. Sort of the wrong way around but what else can you do.
     
  14. mikehalloran macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Location:
    The Sillie Con Valley
    #14
    That's like pushing an engine to the red line and being shocked by excess oil consumption.
     
  15. mosher macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Location:
    Germany/Ukraine
    #15
    i have 2015 27inch imac and i have a terrible image retention issue.
    after only 1 minute of use i can already see menu bar ghosting in other apps.

    Apple has to admit its failure
     
  16. ZipZap macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    #16
    Does Apple give forewarning of retention at the time of sale? Do the list it as a feature? Have they worked at all to correct it?

    I think this is why that lawsuit will go forward and Apple will lose in the end.
     
  17. JonD25 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    #17
    For the record, I don’t need to do any checkerboard test to see image retention. Just regular use, within literally minutes, the menu bar, desktop icons, or pretty much any bright elements around the edges of the screen start ghosting VERY noticeably. It’s a pretty unacceptable flaw.
     

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16 July 21, 2019